Humbling ourselves and believing are more works? This is God we're talking about...
Calvinism is Gospel !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
Humbling ourselves and believing are more works? This is God we're talking about...
But "Calvinism is God" doesn't sound as reverent toward God so...it needs to be propped up with a schtick.
Yep, you advocating a works base salvation.
Nope... Being humble is the word of God (James 4:10), which, sadly to say, you are against. You're anti-God and should repent and turn back. I don't like to say it lightly but your words have shown it.
"Works" was a system for religious people. A prescribed system to perform certain actions as the means to gain God's approval and salvation.
Rabbis and Pharisees invented and told the people of works to do.
On the other hand?
Jesus said that there is one sole work (not works) needed to gain the approval of God.
Do you know what that one work is?
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:29
In John 6, many had been following Jesus to find out what works this "rabbi" would prescribe for them to do.
As a result? ... Jesus gave them just one work.
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man
and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my
blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:53-54
We are saved by just one work that pleases God.
Not works.
One work.
Believing in Him.
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:29
grace and peace!
The source I cited was A. T. Robertson who authored the massive, highly detailed reference book: A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research which links New Testament Greek to everyday ancient speech using historical papyri.
This work remains a major tool for advanced Bible study to this day. Robertson's primary focus was on the Greek text itself rather than on English translations. His other book Word Pictures in the New Testament is an insightful treatment of the NT text that emphasized the pictorial nuances implicit in the Greek constructions, which are often lost in translation. You can find this work online and refer to it yourself.
When it comes to understanding the scriptures, our only goal should be how to accurately understand the passage as a whole.
Of course, this often requires us to understand the various truths that comprise the passage. However, MY goal, certainly is not to divide it up unnecessarily. However, when I first studied Ephesians 2:8 I was interested specifically in determining what the indefinite pronoun IT (which Paul said was the gift of God) was referring to
8 For it is by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH, and this not from yourselves; IT is the gift of God,
Although this is a small pronoun, the meaning we attribute to it makes a difference in how we interpret the entire passage. The question is whether the pronoun is referring to GRACE, to FAITH or to something else in the chapter? I take the position that, before we take up any argument we must first allow the text to explain itself.
To get more insight into the meaning of the Greek text I consulted someone who was considered to be world class scholar of the Koine Greek dialect - A. T. Robertson
a. First of all Robertson notes that the DEFINITE article THE precedes GRACE in the Greek text so that it reads:
For by [THE] grace (τη γαρ χαριτ).
b. As in English, using the DEFINITE article THE points either to a specific noun already known to the reader,
OR to something the author has previously mentioned [e.g., "I saw A dog. The dog barked."]
c. According to Robertson, the phrase by THE grace refers back to the same grace that resulted in our salvation back in
Ephesians 2:4
But because of His great LOVE for us, God, who is rich in MERCY, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in
our trespasses. It is by GRACE you have been saved!
Robertson says that the phrase BY the grace is an explanatory state answering WHY God did what He did
d. Paul adds the phrase Through faith (δια πιστεως) to reinforce that faith is the means BY which we obtain salvation
e. Robertson elaborates on grace and faith saying that "grace" is God's part, while "faith" is ours.
f. The next phrase and that (κα τουτο) is a NEUTER not a FEMININE noun and so refers neither to
FAITH (πιστις) (which is feminine) or GRACE (χαρις) (which is also feminine ), but rather to the
act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part.
g. Paul tells us that salvation does not have its source (εξ υμων, out of you, that is out of men) but from God.
Besides, it is God's gift (δωρον) and not the result of our works
Thanks for sharing that background on Robertson. He definitely knows his stuff, but his actual quote in your point (f) is exactly what I was trying to say.
Before getting into that, I noticed you mentioned the word 'IT' again. But like I said earlier, the words 'it is' aren't even in the original Greek text. Translators just added them to make the English sound smooth. The real word Paul wrote is 'touto', which means 'this.' It's just pointing to the whole concept.
That brings us right back to your point (f). Look at what Robertson says there. He says the pronoun refers to 'the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part.' Now, even though Robertson says, 'faith on our part', because we are the ones doing the believing, his grammar still shows it is a package deal. He isn't saying the grammar excludes faith from the gift; he is saying the pronoun wraps up the whole sentence—including the faith—into one big gift from God. You can't pick the package deal apart and claim we manufactured the faith portion independently.
Plus, just logically speaking, if the 'faith' part was something a person had to come up with out of their own willpower, then the verse would directly contradict itself. Paul says 'and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.' If we have to generate the faith ourselves, then it is of ourselves, and it's not fully the gift that Paul claims it is.
But on a deeper level, I believe the 'faith' Paul is talking about here isn't even of our own human willpower anyway. It is actually Christ’s own faithfulness to the Father's plan. Jesus is the One who was perfectly faithful in executing salvation. So, if salvation is a package deal conditioned on faith, then Jesus alone is the One who met that condition perfectly on our behalf or the verse would be incorrect.
When Paul says, 'by grace ye [plural] are saved through faith [singular],' he is pointing a whole group of people to one single foundation: the finished faithfulness of Christ.
When you look at it that way, the whole passage makes perfect sense. It is completely 'not of yourselves' and leaves zero room for human boasting, because the grace, the salvation, and the faithfulness that accomplished it all belong entirely to Jesus as THE Savior, from start to finish.
You late, if you condition salvation on anything you do, it defaults to a work salvation and opposes Grace.
Is Jesus talking about its Gods work for one to believe in the Son or is He saying its mans work to believe on the Son and become saved ? If you say its mans work to do in order to get saved, then you promoting salvation by works and deny grace.
Okay this is advocating a work salvation by pleasing God. This is a false gospel, it denies Grace Salvation, wherein Jesus Christ has done all the work or works needed to save His People from their sins.
It's the Bible, the word of God telling us how to be as people of God. Not once have I ever said works will save us, nor will you find it in my comments on here. Faith isn't works, even though life in the Spirit will bring works with it. You reject the word of God as it doesn't match your precepts
Believing was God's prescribed work.
One of accepting God's invitation to come onto Him.
For in the context?
Works to do, were what the Jews were seeking for from rabbis and Pharisees.
Not "works." (learn what works meant to them)
But, one single work (not works).
"To believe!"
You either find yourself believing, or you don't.
There is no working at it.
You simply believe God.
Not by "pleasing" God...
But, by doing what God alone says pleases Him.
"Believing" requires no working.
One can not work themselves into believing.
Sounds to me, brightfame52 that he is saying salvation, in its totality, is given by God as His free gift unto those whom He saves
- Status