Calvinism - Total Depravity

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StanJ said:
You seem to have a problem with the English I'm writing? Again, read my post, carefully. We need to be born again in Spirit by the Holy Spirit.
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Here is exactly what you said:

StanJ said:
No, you're saying that, I said what I said. We need to be born again because Jesus said so... Is that not enough for you?
Do you only accept the rationale in the word of God as you understand it or do you accept it as it is? I never said that people's Spirits were alive I said the spirit doesn't die and for the exact reason that it's not necessarily alive it exists in a non-corporeal state which is not life. God exists and is only alive in the person of Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit are not alive but they do possess and are able to impart to us eternal life.
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Yikes.
 
Magenta said:
Oh, except of course you say the spirit lives forever anyways so you contradict yourself. We do need to be born again of the Holy Spirit of God or we pass into the second death. Only God is eternal.
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It's a metaphor... it means you have to take a new perspective on life that is not a carnal one but a spiritual one. Part of that new perspective is recognizing who Jesus Christ is and why he was sent and to recognize that he brings to us a new covenant.
The second death is also a physical death because it follows the second Resurrection which is only for those who are not saved but are resurrected for the judgment.
 
Magenta said:
Here is exactly what you said:
Yikes.
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I know what I said and you can keep demonstrating you don't understand it but it won't change the facts. God is only alive in Jesus Christ. God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit. That does not mean that spirit means a living entity it means that it is a spiritual entity. We as human beings are living entities and if we are saved we will remain living entities for eternity just as God will be God for eternity. We have eternal life in Jesus Christ. This is Christianity 101 so I'm not sure what you're not getting. Do you believe God can die? If not why do you believe that this Spirit he put in us can die?
 
Magenta said:
Oh, except of course you say the spirit lives forever anyways so you contradict yourself. We do need to be born again of the Holy Spirit of God or we pass into the second death. Only God is eternal.
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I have a pretty bad memory but I'm pretty sure I didn't say that the spirit lives forever I said that our Spirits never die because their spirit they're not living beings. if you're going to contradict what I say then quote what I say, don't paraphrase me.
 
StanJ said:
It's a metaphor... it means you have to take a new perspective on life that is not a carnal one but a spiritual one. Part of that new perspective is recognizing who Jesus Christ is and why he was sent and to recognize that he brings to us a new covenant.
The second death is also a physical death because it follows the second Resurrection which is only for those who are not saved but are resurrected for the judgment.
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I don't take the being born again of the Spirit of God to be a metaphor. Jesus Christ holds the keys to life and death. If you are not found in Him at the end of the age, you pass into death. If your name remains in the Lamb's book of life you are granted life ever after. Life and death are not metaphors.
 
Magenta said:
Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus was telling him. I wonder how he really felt, maybe he did feel totally depraved sneaking out to talk to Jesus under cover of the night. Total depravity... I have not read the whole thread, so I am not sure what you mean by it. But judging from the last couple of pages what I have seen you say... God is not alive, the Holy Spirit is not alive, life is only physical, our spirit lives forever... all those things have no Scriptural basis.
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You're pretty much avoiding my direct question... Was Nicodemus totally depraved.
 
StanJ said:
You're pretty much avoiding my direct question... Was Nicodemus totally depraved.
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I did not avoid answering, I said I did not know what you mean by total depravity. And still you have not defined it for me, so what do you mean by it? How can I answer if you do not tell me what it means for you to say it? You come across as quite confused, splitting hairs by saying the spirit never dies but that does not mean it lives forever... saying God is not alive and then denying it.
 
StanJ said:
I have a pretty bad memory but I'm pretty sure I didn't say that the spirit lives forever I said that our Spirits never die because their spirit they're not living beings. if you're going to contradict what I say then quote what I say, don't paraphrase me.
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No, if you say the spirit never dies it means it lives forever except then you say the spirit is not even alive. You are all over the place and actually make no sense.
 
Magenta said:
I don't take the being born again of the Spirit of God to be a metaphor. Jesus Christ holds the keys to life and death. If you are not found in Him at the end of the age, you pass into death. If your name remains in the Lamb's book of life you are granted life ever after. Life and death are not metaphors.
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Well then maybe you need to take some grammar courses on how to read English? Bible says you either have eternal life or you don't, it doesn't say that your spirit dies because the spirit can't die. Life and death themselves may not be metaphors but they are definitely used in the Bible as metaphors.
 
StanJ said:
Well then maybe you need to take some grammar courses on how to read English? Bible says you either have eternal life or you don't, it doesn't say that your spirit dies because the spirit can't die. Life and death themselves may not be metaphors but they are definitely used in the Bible as metaphors.
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I won't be taking lessons from you, thanks just the same. You say God is not alive. You say the Spirit of God is not alive. You say our spirit is not even alive, but will live forever (oops, I mean it will never die) whether we are born again of the Spirit of God or not. I understand perfectly what you are saying, even though it is nonsense.
 
StanJ said:
You assume. Jesus didn't...he just said seek. Why would Jesus tell us to seek if He knew we couldn't?
Like I said, stop reading the Bible with your pre-dispositional bias.
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WOW! are you serious... that really didnt answer my question now did it. Way to avoid the question so i will ask again....

How can one seek God if one is blind?

To what you posted above Jesus did indeed say seek and you shall find but even Jesus knew that some would and some wouldnt. Those that would seek God have been prompted by the spirit and there eyes have been opened... again how is this hard to understand? Why do you avoid the question. You are contradicting Paul flat out. You claim that people do seek God which Paul says none seek God. Its just that you cannot reconcile these two seeming contradictions... Your argument is so childish by saying "well Jesus did" its almost laughable. Im not Jesus and Jesus is not fallen. Jesus said seek YES but Paul says none can seek YES? so please explain then how these two can be reconciled...seriously
 
StanJ said:
You assume. Jesus didn't...he just said seek. Why would Jesus tell us to seek if He knew we couldn't?
Like I said, stop reading the Bible with your pre-dispositional bias.
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Assume what ? You assume we can seek God so im not the one assuming anything am I? Im not assuming but merely reconciling scriptures. Jesus said seek so you assume that we can???? But Paul says none seek God so please stop saying im assuming when all im doing is trying to deal with both scriptures whereas you are not but simply avoiding. :) so stop avoiding Pauls statement when he says "none can seek God" afterall that was the article posted by you not Jesus.
 
Magenta said:
No, if you say the spirit never dies it means it lives forever except then you say the spirit is not even alive. You are all over the place and actually make no sense.
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No that's how you're rationalizing it, not doing one doesn't necessarily mean the other replies. You're having a hard time differentiating between existence and living. Living is what life does on Earth because God created life in the physical. He breathed into man his spirit. It's beginning to sound to me like you're an annihilist. That also is not scripturally supported.
Read Matthew 25:41 then Revelation 20:10.
 
StanJ said:
You assume. Jesus didn't...he just said seek. Why would Jesus tell us to seek if He knew we couldn't?
Like I said, stop reading the Bible with your pre-dispositional bias.
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The bible says seek God then Paul says none can seek God. Why? ANSWER THE QUESTION WHY PAUL SAYS NONE CAN SEEK GOD!!! This is why your Leighton flowers doesnt answer. the question of Why Paul said this? Then answer if its possible to seek God without the need of God? How come you cannot answer these questions...
 
nowyouseem033 said:
Assume what ? You assume we can seek God so im not the one assuming anything am I? Im not assuming but merely reconciling scriptures. Jesus said seek so you assume that we can???? But Paul says none seek God so please stop saying im assuming when all im doing is trying to deal with both scriptures whereas you are not but simply avoiding. :) so stop avoiding Pauls statement when he says "none can seek God" afterall that was the article posted by you not Jesus.
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I've already addressed what Paul said and why I have already addressed what Jesus said about seeking. If you don't believe that we can seek even though Jesus commands us to seek then you're not believe in the Bible and that has nothing to do with me that's between you and God. I'm not going to go around in circles with you although I get the feeling you would probably enjoy the deflection and obfuscation you tend to use.
 
nowyouseem033 said:
The bible says seek God then Paul says none can seek God. Why? ANSWER THE QUESTION WHY PAUL SAYS NONE CAN SEEK GOD!!! This is why your Leighton flowers doesnt answer. the question of Why Paul said this? Then answer if its possible to seek God without the need of God? How come you cannot answer these questions...
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I already have and you either didn't read it or didn't accept it or both, but regardless I'm not going to continually answer the same question, so move along.
 
nowyouseem033 said:
Assume what ? You assume we can seek God so im not the one assuming anything am I? Im not assuming but merely reconciling scriptures. Jesus said seek so you assume that we can???? But Paul says none seek God so please stop saying im assuming when all im doing is trying to deal with both scriptures whereas you are not but simply avoiding. :) so stop avoiding Pauls statement when he says "none can seek God" afterall that was the article posted by you not Jesus.
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If you don't believe Jesus and would rather believe Paul and not reconcile the two then your problem is you don't know how to read the Bible and I can't teach you that in the few posts. You have been properly instructed.
 
nowyouseem033 said:
WOW! are you serious... that really didnt answer my question now did it. Way to avoid the question so i will ask again....
How can one seek God if one is blind?
To what you posted above Jesus did indeed say seek and you shall find but even Jesus knew that some would and some wouldnt. Those that would seek God have been prompted by the spirit and there eyes have been opened... again how is this hard to understand? Why do you avoid the question. You are contradicting Paul flat out. You claim that people do seek God which Paul says none seek God. Its just that you cannot reconcile these two seeming contradictions... Your argument is so childish by saying "well Jesus did" its almost laughable. Im not Jesus and Jesus is not fallen. Jesus said seek YES but Paul says none can seek YES? so please explain then how these two can be reconciled...seriously
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Asked and answered... Now move along and stop asking the same questions repeatedly.
 
StanJ said:
I already have and you either didn't read it or didn't accept it or both, but regardless I'm not going to continually answer the same question, so move along.
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Okay. So can you clarify then how one can seek God even though Paul says none can seek God please?

I told you mine.... Unless you are born again you cant seek God. Jesus knew this so thats why he had no problem in saying seek... afterall he knew that some would and some wouldnt and he also knew that it was only going to happen by the Grace of God.

Because im sure you didnt.. You have posted Leighton Flowers but even he doesnt answer the question WHY NONE CAN SEEK GOD? So if he doesnt answer that question then you did?? Ive looked through your posts an nada...

So for the sake of clarity... How can one seek God which Jesus said to do, when Paul says none can seek God?
 
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