Can deity die?

[NWL]

You are making a false argument. You are trying to equate heaven with the word παραδείσῳ. These are not used synonymously in scripture. Paradise is the hadian or unseen realm where the souls of men await the resurrection. Heaven is the abode of God.

Forgive my assumption, most people I talk to always believe the word παραδείσῳ in luke 23:43 to refers to heavens which God resides, whilst the few others such as yourself believe it to be as you put it "unseen realm where the souls of men await the resurrection." Maybe you could help me and point me to the verse which speak of this unseen realm where people await to be resurrected.

What makes more sense is that Jesus was referring to the New earth where people are to be resurrected while they are now "sleeping in death", the condition of the earth would be like Paradise Eden restored.

(Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

(Revelation 21:1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth

(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

 

[Isdaniel]

I would disagree. If he was not in parades on that day, he lied. And if he lied, he sinned. And if he sinned. We are all doomed to hell. And he did not go to paradise on that day, but to hades, where he is waiting on the final judgment where he will be condemned as a sinner right beside us.


Lucky for us, He did rise. And God rose him from the dead. proving to us, God did accept his sacrifice in full.

are you saying the thief got eternal life already before us ?

 

[Gjolll]

The Hypo-stasis is an attempt to resurrect the religion of Babylon under the guise of Christianity.

Tammuz, the faithful son of God, meets Christ the man, the son of man, in the idol of the hypo-stasis.

Chaos and confusion. New idols. New religion, New World Order.

 

[NWL]

i think i go take a break Nwl are you writing an essay
are you saying man is body + soul alone
What is the spirit of man ?
Is his spirit different from his soul ?

sorry I'm responding to various people whilst a lil busy at home, I'm looking at your comments now

 

[oldhermit]

Did Jesus die? I have heard He did, and later on (3 days) He was resurrected.

What is dying?

Is it starving or being far (too far) from God?

According to my understanding (what I have learned, not by personal livid experience) Jesus was in Heaven, so He is divine (or a diety) and experienced dead by being torn in two pieces: His Spirit and His body, to utterly go to hell (that one we want to scape).

I agree. Death is an experience that cannot be discussed with those who have been through it. The only point of reference the living have for discussing death is what God has revealed to us about it in scripture.

Scripture describes death as a separation. Physical death occurs when the spirit of man is separated from the body. Spiritual death is when the soul of man is separated from God. There are many who are spiritually dead yet live physically. By the same token there are many who are dead physically who still live spiritually.

Jesus, somewhere cited from the Scripture He knew there: "...we are gods..." arguing with those who argued.

Spirits and bodies are going to HELL, same way the O.T. reads on those who were sent, when the ground opened up, eating also their tents and families.

Dieing is des-uniting MIND from the FLESH, the spirit from its physical body. But I havent't had that experience, that one like those who have had NDE (Near Death Experiences).

Lazarus could have written anything about that topic. ..

Do not confuse Hell with Hades. These are two completely different words referring to two completely different states of existence.

 

[cjordan38]

One of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible is found in 1 Peter 3:18-20 which says

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”
What does this verse mean? Did Jesus preach to spirits in hades or hell?
Or did He preach to fallen angels?
Or does this verse mean something completely different?

The following questions must be addresed

How did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison?
Who are these spirits in prison?
And when did He do this?

Jesus preached to the spirits that didnt adhere to to voice of God through Noah. The spirits are the ones who were destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah. The spirits are the ones who were not of the isrealite nation who died before the coming of Jesus. You can only preach to a spirit through the spirit. So when Jesus gave up the Ghost he went into the lower parts of the earth preached to the souls and took back whosoever was willing. The fallen angels are forever trapped and doomed to the lake of fire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

are you saying the thief got eternal life already before us ?

He recieved eternal life the moment he trusted in Christ. Just like Abraham did, and all those who came before and after.

 

[iamsoandso]

i also have things i must do,,,ill return later today,god bless,,,,

 

[john832]

are you saying the thief got eternal life already before us ?

Hmmm, that is in direct contradiction to this...

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[LovePink]

Okay, I was just wondering.

The doctrine, pay close attention to the words, it basically states Christ cannot be divided. It is said, that would be making two Christ's instead of one. I came across this doctrine in my studying. I thought I was comprehending it correctly, but just to make sure I asked my pastor,"Pastor, do we believe deity died?" He said yes. After I became a saved person, some of my first issues were over two natures, then I came to see and realize some things, the natures of the new creature are not unionized until glorification. This has to do with body types, as I mentioned before, for a purpose in the household of God and there is a purpose in the redemption and the term all in all.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I would disagree. If he was not in parades on that day, he lied. And if he lied, he sinned. And if he sinned. We are all doomed to hell. And he did not go to paradise on that day, but to hades, where he is waiting on the final judgment where he will be condemned as a sinner right beside us.


Lucky for us, He did rise. And God rose him from the dead. proving to us, God did accept his sacrifice in full.

Hi eternally-grateful. . .

If he said - Verily (truly) I say unto thee, today you shall be with me in paradise. He would have lied - Jesus was in the grave for 3 days - seen by the apostles for 40 days - So Jesus did not go to paradise "today".

Now - saying - Verily (truly) I say unto thee today, you shall be with me in paradise. He would be telling the truth because he is promising the thief a place in paradise - when? Not today but at the resurrection.

"condemned a sinner right beside us"? I won't be condemned as a sinner - I have been judged righteous, I have the righteousness of God, I have been justified and sanctified. . . . .I will stand before the bema of Christ and account for the good I have done and the bad I have done - either for rewards or lose of rewards.

 

[RuthHannah]

Jesus preached to the spirits that didnt adhere to to voice of God through Noah. The spirits are the ones who were destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah. The spirits are the ones who were not of the isrealite nation who died before the coming of Jesus. You can only preach to a spirit through the spirit. So when Jesus gave up the Ghost he went into the lower parts of the earth preached to the souls and took back whosoever was willing. The fallen angels are forever trapped and doomed to the lake of fire.

Where in the bible says that our spirit goes to a conscious realm at death ?
I thought God the Father had Jesus spirit for Jesus said Father into thy hands i commit my spirit
Where was and is God ? In heaven right

 

[oldhermit]

Hi eternally-grateful. . .

If he said - Verily (truly) I say unto thee, today you shall be with me in paradise. He would have lied - Jesus was in the grave for 3 days - seen by the apostles for 40 days - So Jesus did not go to paradise "today".

Now - saying - Verily (truly) I say unto thee today, you shall be with me in paradise. He would be telling the truth because he is promising the thief a place in paradise - when? Not today but at the resurrection.

This is a misrepresentation. It is grammatically incorrect. One cannot simply move punctuation around anywhere one desires simply to defend a theological theory.

 

[NWL]

i think i go take a break Nwl are you writing an essay
are you saying man is body + soul alone
What is the spirit of man ?
Is his spirit different from his soul ?

Yes the soul and spirit are different things. I believed I erred before when I said "Soul = life force", it was meant to be the Spirit = Life force whereas the soul resembles the man himself;

(Gen. 2:7) "...Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul..."

So you see the man became a soul at the point God blew life into him, he didn't gain a soul but was a soul. The spirit can be likened to the breath god put into Adam, he blew life into him. The words Spirit and life are exchangeable in relation to this topic. for eg when Jesus died he said to his Father I entrust my spirit, his life, awaiting and trusting to be resurrected by the Father

(Luke 23:46) "...And Jesus called with a loud voice and said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” When he had said this, he expired..."

 

[RuthHannah]

He recieved eternal life the moment he trusted in Christ. Just like Abraham did, and all those who came before and after.

the bible clearly shews no one got eternal life in the past but all are awaiting the promise from abel to the end of times

 

[RuthHannah]

Yes the soul and spirit are different things. I believed I erred before when I said "Soul = life force", it was meant to be the Spirit = Life force whereas the soul resembles the man himself;

(Gen. 2:7) "...Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul..."

So you see the man became a soul at the point God blew life into him, he didn't gain a soul but was a soul. The spirit can be likened to the breath god put into Adam, he blew life into him. The words Spirit and life are exchangeable in relation to this topic. for eg when Jesus died he said to his Father I entrust my spirit, his life, awaiting and trusting to be resurrected by the Father

(Luke 23:46) "...And Jesus called with a loud voice and said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” When he had said this, he expired..."

man has a body , soul and spirit

[h=3]1 Thessalonians 5:23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord JesusChrist.

 

[cjordan38]

Nice point but lets get a little more verified in the word. Now show me in the word where it says that anyone from the old testimony was full of the Holy Ghost. If you read you shall see that Jesus was the olny one with the Holy Gjost until he died. No man before him had the Holy Ghost. Now you speak of Noah days. God destroyed almost all of man kind to preserve the liniage of David. No one else stood upright except Noah because thats how it was designed. The isrealites and gentiles came from the sons of Noah. Now when the flood came and they died Jesus came years after and died on the cross. Gave up the Ghost and descended into the lower parts of the earth. Now if Jesus had not preached tonall the souls before his coming as he still does today, wouldnt that make God a liar and unjust

 

[RuthHannah]

This is a misrepresentation. It is grammatically incorrect. One cannot simply move punctuation around anywhere one desires simply to defend a theological theory.

i dont know much about the grammer but i know that that thief is awaiting a resurrection

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This is a misrepresentation. It is grammatically incorrect. One cannot simply move punctuation around anywhere one desires simply to defend a theological theory.

Chapter breaks, chapter headings, and punctuation were all added - original MSS had none of these. Scripture was written in running text and broken or punctuated by men.

Original inspired scripture was in running script - verilyisaytotheetodayshaltthoubewithmeinparadise (although in Greek/Aramaic). You can see how difficult that would be to read so the translators added punctuation as they saw fit. Changing punctuation does not change the "inspired words" of scripture but can have an effect on what the "inspired words" say.

 

[NWL]

This is a misrepresentation. It is grammatically incorrect. One cannot simply move punctuation around anywhere one desires simply to defend a theological theory.

Stop telling people it is incorrect when you yourself cannot show it otherwise, there was no comma's in the NT so was up to the translators, I'd like to know how its grammatically incorrect since you keep saying it.

You say Jesus was talking in regard to a Paradise in hell but yet the Bible doesn't teach a paradise in Hell exist, however a new earthly paradise will exist, the only possible interpretation.

Shw me the grammar issues when translating it this way oldhermit, I'll be back in an hour or two.

(Luke 23:43) "...And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise...”