DiscipleDave said
There are NO Scriptures that teach we will be taken to Heaven.
Sure there is:
"In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. Jesus ascended back to heaven, which is undoubtedly where the Father's house is.
i say there are no verses which teach we are taken to Heaven, then you say, "Yes there is" then give a verse that does
NOT say at all that we are taken to Heaven. Notice how YOU ADDED to the verse the statement "Jesus ascended back to heaven, which is undoubtedly where the Father's house is." You say this to support YOUR own belief, but that is NOT what the Scriptures teach, that is what YOU, Ahwatukee, thinks and believes, it is NOT what the verse teaches. Scriptures plainly teaches the New City Jerusalem comes down from Heaven to the Earth, where the Father and Jesus Christ are inside it. You seriously need to do a study on the New City Jerusalem which COMES TO EARTH. If the Holy City has Jesus, has the Father, has the Saints in it, and it is ON EARTH, how are they in Heaven, as you teach?
Then at the Father's timing, Jesus will come back to take all believers back to the Father's house, so that where he is, we may be also, which would be heaven.
YOU say Heaven, Scriptures does not teach that, and for some reason you refuse to hear the Truth from someone who claims that Truth comes from God, if the Truth were in you, would you not know it when you heard it?
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. (oceans)
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (New City Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven to the EARTH)
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (God Himself will be in the Holy City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven to the EARTH)
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
So Scriptures plainly teach that the HOLY CITY will come down OUT of Heaven to the Earth, and God Himself will be there? Where? The Holy City on the EARTH. Other verses confirm this as well.
Still talking about the New City Jerusalem :
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty (Father)
and the Lamb (Jesus)
are the temple of it.
So the Father and Jesus are in the New City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven to the Earth.
Still talking about the New City Jerusalem
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
WHERE????? Where is the Throne of God going to be according to Scriptures? NOT in Heaven as you teach, but in the New City Jerusalem that comes down out of Heaven to the EARTH. You do error not knowing the TRUTH nor believing the Scriptures which should teach you these TRUTHS, but because you are so unwilling to change what you believe, you are more willing to change Scriptures to fit your belief. Believe the Word of God NOT what men teach.
The Word of God plainly teaches that Jesus is preparing a place for us, the Word of God plainly teaches the New City Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven to the Earth, the Word of God plainly teaches that the Father and Jesus will be there inside, the Word of God plainly teaches the Throne of God will be in the New City Jerusalem. Believe the Word of God, DO NOT change the Word of God to fit your own interpretations of what you call the TRUTH.
The Lord God says "
If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"
"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."
Know you not that the Kingdom of Heaven is where God is. Why do you think Jesus kept on saying the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, because the Son of God was at hand. Why do you think it is written the Kingdom of God is within us
Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Because if Christ, the Son of God be in us, then that is where the Kingdom of God is.
Know you not that all the Kingdoms of the Earth becomes God's? If then all the Kingdoms of the Earth becomes God's, then the Earth also becomes a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; (the Last TRUMP)
and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Therefore the Kingdoms of the Earth are now a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus said the above verse in response to the faith of the centurion, citing that the faithful will come from all nations and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of heaven. This feast is synonymous with when Jesus said at the last supper regarding the wine, "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine again, until I drink in anew with you (all believers) in my Father's kingdom.
True, which God told me is ON EARTH at that time. Scriptures also confirms this, consider the feast.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem (New City Jerusalem)
shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. (This has never happened yet, but is going to happen when the Father and Jesus Christ come down out of Heaven in the Holy City Jerusalem)
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem (Holy New City Jerusalem)
to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (This has never happened in the past, this is going to happen in the future when Jesus Returns with the Holy City Jerusalem)
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
So there will be a FEAST, its NOT in Heaven as you teach it is, it will be in the New City Jerusalem with the Father, with Jesus, the Saints, and all the Angels. And there will be another feast that held for those who abide on the Earth, which will be Under the Holy City Jerusalem, in the valley under it.
The resurrection and catching away of the dead and living in Christ will take place just as it is prophesied and believers will be in heaven during that last seven years.
The resurrection and catching away of the dead and living in Christ will take place just as it is prophesied, that part of what you say is TRUE, however the rest of what you said is NOT TRUE. the part where you say " and believers will be in heaven during that last seven years." Where is that teaching coming from? what Scriptures teaches that? show it if you are able to, but so far you have not shown one verse, but instead you show verses then ADD to those verses. Where then is that teaching coming from, because it is a teaching that does not come from Scriptures but comes from the minds of men.
During that time, the church will appear before the Bema seat of Christ for our works and will receive their robes of righteousness to wear (Rev.19:6-8) and then we will return to the earth following the Lord riding on white horses when Christ returns to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom (Rev.19:11-21).
Do you not see you teach things that the Holy Scriptures do not teach? You say above then we will return to the earth, that is not in Scriptures, that is in your imagination. Know you not that Jesus will reign on EARTH. Do you not even read the very Scriptures you use as referrences, consider:
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who then are "THEM" those on EARTH. He comes out of the New City Jerusalem to RULE all the nations of the Earth. He does NOT come out of Heaven with the white horses, but out of the New City Jerusalem. He rules the kingdoms of the Earth OUT OF THE HOLY CITY, NOT out of Heaven. Howbeit, it is out of Heaven, because where ever the Son is, is the Kingdom of Heaven, if the Son is in the New City, on the Earth, then the Kingdom of Heaven is also on the Earth as well.
A thousand years later and after the great white throne judgment, then there will be a new heaven, new earth and a new Jerusalem that the faithful will dwell in.
You do error in thinking this takes place at the end of the thousand years. What Scriptures teaches that? NONE. There is not one Scripture that teaches it is at the end of the thousand years, that is what men teach, NOT what the Word of God teaches. The Word of God plainly teaches that Jesus reigns out of the New City Jerusalem.
You teach that the Holy City comes after the thousand years, Scriptures does not teach that. Scriptures teach that we Saints reign with Jesus for a thousand years.
2Ti_2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him: if we deny Him, He also will deny us:
Saints will reign WITH Him.
Rev_5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Will you debate what Scriptures plainly teaches?
Scriptures plainly teach we will reign with Jesus ON THE EARTH. will you buck against this Truth as well. Or will you try to interpret this verse to mean something other that what it plainly says so as to fit your own belief of what you THINK is the TRUTH?
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Reign over WHO for a thousand years? So The Word of God plainly teaches we will reign with Him, ON THE EARTH, and for a thousand years. Not only do i teach this exact same thing, it is exactly what God told me as well. Scriptures confirms what He told me. So the question is, will you change your belief to match Scriptures, or change the Scriptures to match your belief?
^i^ responding to post #112