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I am going to post Acts 4 (yes, all of it) and I would like you to show us what verse(s) you say make your point...
Acts
4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put [them] in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.
4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?
4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
4:15 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves,
4:16 Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them [is] manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny [it].
4:17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all [men] glorified God for that which was done.
4:22 For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.
4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
4:35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, [and] of the country of Cyprus,
4:37 Having land, sold [it], and brought the money, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.
Acts
4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put [them] in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.
4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?
4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
4:15 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves,
4:16 Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them [is] manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny [it].
4:17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all [men] glorified God for that which was done.
4:22 For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.
4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
4:24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou [art] God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
4:35 And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, [and] of the country of Cyprus,
4:37 Having land, sold [it], and brought the money, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.
You quoted psalms, which Peter cires here,
4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
And after this, God spoke this way,
4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Brother,
I said torment without end isn't justice. It's sadistic. You quoted a Psalm that has nothing to do with eternal torment. Although the gospel is preached so that sinners might be saved, we should also remember that in "his sore displeasure ", our Lord said,
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Mt.23:34-35
4:25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
And after this, God spoke this way,
4:29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Brother,
I said torment without end isn't justice. It's sadistic. You quoted a Psalm that has nothing to do with eternal torment. Although the gospel is preached so that sinners might be saved, we should also remember that in "his sore displeasure ", our Lord said,
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Mt.23:34-35
David is correct about what happens to them.
Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
G2654
?ata?a??´s??
katanalisko¯
kat-an-al-is'-ko
From G2596 and G355; to consume utterly: - consume.
compare that to this:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
G622
a?p?´???µ?
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
to consume utterly
to destroy fully
Both speak about fire which can fully destroy/consume something.
Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
G2654
?ata?a??´s??
katanalisko¯
kat-an-al-is'-ko
From G2596 and G355; to consume utterly: - consume.
compare that to this:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
G622
a?p?´???µ?
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
to consume utterly
to destroy fully
Both speak about fire which can fully destroy/consume something.
That's right guys. Eternal and everlasting destruction and punishment in eternal and everlasting smoke and consuming fire. We know that physical lessons of OT forshadow eternal spiritual truths about things hereafter. I'm sorry if you have been taught otherwise. Running into the Greek jungle to hide will not fix your error. If simple, literal statements don't fit our fancy, we need to swallow the red pill anyway.
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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Here's an even more interesting thought...
If a Christian changes his mind and wants to go to hell, will God force him to be saved?
Link to the article here:
https://bible.org/question/if-chris...and-wants-go-hell-will-god-force-him-be-saved
If a Christian changes his mind and wants to go to hell, will God force him to be saved?
Link to the article here:
https://bible.org/question/if-chris...and-wants-go-hell-will-god-force-him-be-saved
do they still have free will
They will not be granted repentance and faith in hell
..see luke 16
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Dying the sin unto death due to suffering discipline for grieving the Holy Spirit up until the point you draw your last physical breath is not the same as having your salvation 'undone' because you just decided one day not to be saved any more. In the case of becoming a Christian, there is no 'divorce'. The Holy Spirit makes your human spirit alive again and makes you a new creation. The Holy Spirit permanently indwells and temporarily fills the believer. Like some choices in life, this choice is one that you can not just back out of once it is made, you must be decisive. You may have less reward in heaven dying the sin unto death. That which made you sick enough to die the sin unto death in the first place (your nature to sin) will no longer be there any longer once you are in heaven.
When choosing whether or not to become a Christian, it is not the same as choosing the paint color for your bedroom where you decide 'oh, I don't like this after all,' and you get to go back to the store and just choose a different color to paint over the first. Christianity is not a religion, Christianity is a spiritual transformation. The Communist Party fails to grasp this when they demand that Christians just give up their faith and be something else; failing to realize that that is not possible for us to do. We do not have an imaginary roommate living inside us. For this reason, Christians end up suffering greatly and being executed because they can not stop being what they are.
You were born a man. If someone demanded that you stop being a man and start being a cat, a literal cat, could you do that? No. That's absurd. No created being can undo the work of G*d. No one makes you make your first valid choice at the start when you become saved. Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. G*d is not some monstrous controlling tyrant. Please be so kind as to think about from where the thought behind such a question might originate before asking.
When choosing whether or not to become a Christian, it is not the same as choosing the paint color for your bedroom where you decide 'oh, I don't like this after all,' and you get to go back to the store and just choose a different color to paint over the first. Christianity is not a religion, Christianity is a spiritual transformation. The Communist Party fails to grasp this when they demand that Christians just give up their faith and be something else; failing to realize that that is not possible for us to do. We do not have an imaginary roommate living inside us. For this reason, Christians end up suffering greatly and being executed because they can not stop being what they are.
You were born a man. If someone demanded that you stop being a man and start being a cat, a literal cat, could you do that? No. That's absurd. No created being can undo the work of G*d. No one makes you make your first valid choice at the start when you become saved. Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. G*d is not some monstrous controlling tyrant. Please be so kind as to think about from where the thought behind such a question might originate before asking.
And who in their right mind or spirit would make a decision like that, knowing that the only other option is to be eternal separated from God in the lake of fire?
Um .... what you have said is not the truth. Though we are chosen for salvation, faith is still required, for without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is not just a one-faith, but faith from first to last. Remember when Jesus said, "unless you take up your cross daily, you cannot be my disciple? Remember when He said to believers, "unless you forgive your brother from your heart, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you. If a believer turns back to willfully living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Consider what is written James 5:18
"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
So, to wander away from the truth, would be to go back to living according to the sinful nature. While in that wandered state, that person is accumulating sin and is on his way to death. In order to wander away from the truth, you would have to have been in it at one time. And then there is the following:
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—[if] you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
"We have come to share in Christ, [if] indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end."
Our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith from beginning to the end. Why would Paul tell us not to grieve the Holy Spirit, if we were sealed? We are sealed if we continue in faith. If we were sealed no matter what, why would Jesus tell us the following:
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
In any case, what does your post have to do with the thread of whether people who die and go to Hades can repent or not?
If we're sealed no matter what we do and how we live, then why the rebukes and warnings in the letters to the seven churches?
We're sealed, if we continue in the faith that we had when we first believed. Anyone who apostasies and dies in that state, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now I'm not talking about the sins that we commit when as we walk in Christ because of our weakness, but of going back and willfully living according to the sinful nature i.e. turning away from Christ and remaining in that state. For in that state that person would no longer be bearing any fruit. They would no longer be transforming into the image of Christ. Any branch that does not bear fruit, is broken off and thrown into the fire. Fruit is the result of faith and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, which is the process of being made holy.
Um .... what you have said is not the truth. Though we are chosen for salvation, faith is still required, for without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is not just a one-faith, but faith from first to last. Remember when Jesus said, "unless you take up your cross daily, you cannot be my disciple? Remember when He said to believers, "unless you forgive your brother from your heart, neither will your heavenly Father forgive you. If a believer turns back to willfully living according to the sinful nature and dies in that state, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Consider what is written James 5:18
"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
So, to wander away from the truth, would be to go back to living according to the sinful nature. While in that wandered state, that person is accumulating sin and is on his way to death. In order to wander away from the truth, you would have to have been in it at one time. And then there is the following:
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—[if] you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
"We have come to share in Christ, [if] indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end."
Our salvation is conditional upon continuing in faith from beginning to the end. Why would Paul tell us not to grieve the Holy Spirit, if we were sealed? We are sealed if we continue in faith. If we were sealed no matter what, why would Jesus tell us the following:
"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
In any case, what does your post have to do with the thread of whether people who die and go to Hades can repent or not?
If we're sealed no matter what we do and how we live, then why the rebukes and warnings in the letters to the seven churches?
We're sealed, if we continue in the faith that we had when we first believed. Anyone who apostasies and dies in that state, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Now I'm not talking about the sins that we commit when as we walk in Christ because of our weakness, but of going back and willfully living according to the sinful nature i.e. turning away from Christ and remaining in that state. For in that state that person would no longer be bearing any fruit. They would no longer be transforming into the image of Christ. Any branch that does not bear fruit, is broken off and thrown into the fire. Fruit is the result of faith and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, which is the process of being made holy.
Ephesians 2:8-9
New American Standard Bible
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Read full chapter
Footnotes
Romans 8:38-39
The seal is permanent. The death about which you are reading is not death of the human spirit. The reference which begins with 'Once you were alienated from G*d is speaking of the state of mankind before the coming of the Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus). I would continue this further however, there are some rather serious things happening in my life right now and I am sure that there is someone else on this forum who could also explain to you what I am trying to tell you.
Since starting here, I have seen a willingness to invest a great deal of time in arguing about doctrinal differences versus taking the time to research the history of where these different doctrines originated together as a cooperative body. This seems to foster more of a spirit of contention versus promote an atmosphere of mutual growth and support within what should be all one body- the body of Christ. When a body begins to attack its own body parts, the immune system has become confused and gotten out of control. The only one who benefits from this is the enemy.
I believe that I have posted more than one response now that was not read very thoroughly before a response was posted either misinterpreting or disregarding part or all of what I said. On occasion, my post was outright ignored for days until someone else was nice enough to bring it to the attention of the person to whom the post was addressed.
Right now, I am just doing well to get out of bed in the morning and check mail and posts here and what I find greeting me when I look at these boards are certain members posting things meant to undermine other members confidence in G*d keeping his promise concerning providing us with salvation and everlasting life when we believe in Jesus...that somehow something else has to be added to the work Yeshua did on the cross as if that work was not good enough. That's legalism and legalism is about human good trying to earn you salvation through your own righteousness. That is a different gospel than what the apostles were teaching.
New American Standard Bible
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There are certain things which G*d gives to us when we become saved which he does not just take back either. For example, we become joint heirs with Yeshua (Jesus Christ).
The whole purpose of this 'you can lose your salvation if you don't behave' doctrine exists to force people to 'behave' out of fear and not to follow Christ willingly out of a growing love for him. There must be spiritual growth in the relationship you share with G*d for that love of G*d to grow and that can not happen if you are living in fear constantly of losing your salvation. Yeshua does not want us to live anxiety filled lives. Be anxious for nothing. That doctrine ferments mistrust of G*d's promises and anxiety for an imperfect being who can never be good enough to match G*d's righteousness through their own works. It cripples the believer's ability to grow spiritually. How can they be filled with anxiety and the Holy Spirit at the same time? How can they place confidence in G*d's promises if G*d was the sort of being who took everything away and stuck them with eternal punishment all over again the moment the went astray. The good shepherd leaves the flock to go look for the lost sheep in order to return the lost sheep to the flock and rejoices when the lost sheep is found or returns. The Prodigal Son's father did not tell him to go suffer in Gehenna when his son returned home!
I am sorry if we cannot see eye to eye on this but G*d does not contradict himself or break his word to us; G*d is the essence of veracity. G*d is the father of the Prodigal son and he throws a party when the Prodigal son comes home!
New American Standard Bible
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Read full chapter
Footnotes
- Ephesians 2:8 I.e., this salvation
Romans 8:38-39
The seal is permanent. The death about which you are reading is not death of the human spirit. The reference which begins with 'Once you were alienated from G*d is speaking of the state of mankind before the coming of the Messiah, Yeshua (Jesus). I would continue this further however, there are some rather serious things happening in my life right now and I am sure that there is someone else on this forum who could also explain to you what I am trying to tell you.
Since starting here, I have seen a willingness to invest a great deal of time in arguing about doctrinal differences versus taking the time to research the history of where these different doctrines originated together as a cooperative body. This seems to foster more of a spirit of contention versus promote an atmosphere of mutual growth and support within what should be all one body- the body of Christ. When a body begins to attack its own body parts, the immune system has become confused and gotten out of control. The only one who benefits from this is the enemy.
I believe that I have posted more than one response now that was not read very thoroughly before a response was posted either misinterpreting or disregarding part or all of what I said. On occasion, my post was outright ignored for days until someone else was nice enough to bring it to the attention of the person to whom the post was addressed.
Right now, I am just doing well to get out of bed in the morning and check mail and posts here and what I find greeting me when I look at these boards are certain members posting things meant to undermine other members confidence in G*d keeping his promise concerning providing us with salvation and everlasting life when we believe in Jesus...that somehow something else has to be added to the work Yeshua did on the cross as if that work was not good enough. That's legalism and legalism is about human good trying to earn you salvation through your own righteousness. That is a different gospel than what the apostles were teaching.
New American Standard Bible
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
There are certain things which G*d gives to us when we become saved which he does not just take back either. For example, we become joint heirs with Yeshua (Jesus Christ).
The whole purpose of this 'you can lose your salvation if you don't behave' doctrine exists to force people to 'behave' out of fear and not to follow Christ willingly out of a growing love for him. There must be spiritual growth in the relationship you share with G*d for that love of G*d to grow and that can not happen if you are living in fear constantly of losing your salvation. Yeshua does not want us to live anxiety filled lives. Be anxious for nothing. That doctrine ferments mistrust of G*d's promises and anxiety for an imperfect being who can never be good enough to match G*d's righteousness through their own works. It cripples the believer's ability to grow spiritually. How can they be filled with anxiety and the Holy Spirit at the same time? How can they place confidence in G*d's promises if G*d was the sort of being who took everything away and stuck them with eternal punishment all over again the moment the went astray. The good shepherd leaves the flock to go look for the lost sheep in order to return the lost sheep to the flock and rejoices when the lost sheep is found or returns. The Prodigal Son's father did not tell him to go suffer in Gehenna when his son returned home!
I am sorry if we cannot see eye to eye on this but G*d does not contradict himself or break his word to us; G*d is the essence of veracity. G*d is the father of the Prodigal son and he throws a party when the Prodigal son comes home!
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