Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?

[psychomom]

if I had a nickle for every tom dick and harry that said this, I would be rich.

huh.
i'd have a nickle.

 

[Laodicea]

As this topic is about Revelation 12:1-6 I asked this in a post to Therapon which he did not answer. He seems to be stuck on Islam.

The 1260 days and time times and a half mentioned in:-
Revelation 12:6 KJV
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:14 KJV
(14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

They are the same time period. Why are they mentioned twice in the space of a few verses? Also it has nothing to do with Islam. When reading it it looks like Elijah who fled for 3.5 years into the wilderness and was fed by Ravens. Why does God use that imagery?

 

[zone]

sorry Lao.
sorry OP
Re: Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Im sure some of you will disagree with this, but it is in great detail. This is also how I understand John's vision.

Conflict | Revelation | church of Christ

 

[Therapon]

It's sister, and your numbers are certainly not the actual numbers given in Scripture.

If we don't agree on what the truth should be based on we have little chance of reconciling our views. My view is based on two things, first and foremost the Scriptures, the actual words, not some date deciphered from mathematical conversions, and secondarily on history, not newspaper articles from 1972, and certainly not Newsweek.

Well, if you cannot accept recognized historic documents and refuse to see how known history can fit Scripture, then you are right, there is absolutely no common understanding of end-time Scriptures upon which we agree.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL, having trouble believing Ezekiel 4:5-6 are we? And you don't recognize the difference between the Hebrew 360 day prophetic year and the 365.24 day year our history is recorded in, which turns the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 into 1271 years? And you don't see that it was 2373 years from Daniel's time until the new nation of Israel was established? We come from such different knowledge bases that I don't even know how to answer you, so please go in peace.

we are still in daniels time. the final beast has yet to see its fulfillment.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, this isn't Dick or Harry, this is Ellis Skolfield. So are you saying I'm lying?

I am saying using this as a proof your right is erroneous.. Everyone uses it..you will need more than this

 

[Pilgrimer]

As this topic is about Revelation 12:1-6 I asked this in a post to Therapon which he did not answer. He seems to be stuck on Islam.

The 1260 days and time times and a half mentioned in:-
Revelation 12:6 KJV
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:14 KJV
(14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

They are the same time period. Why are they mentioned twice in the space of a few verses? Also it has nothing to do with Islam. When reading it it looks like Elijah who fled for 3.5 years into the wilderness and was fed by Ravens. Why does God use that imagery?

The same time period is also mentioned in 11:2 when it speaks of the Gentiles treading under foot the Holy City for forty two months ( 3 1/2 years).

The reason for these numbers is that the Roman/Jewish war (the time of great tribulation) lasted 7 years. It began in 66 A.D. when the Jews revolted against Rome (the Greek word apostasia, falling away, which Paul said would happen first was used in all 1st century Greek manuscripts for a political revolt). Midway through the war, in 70 A.D., the city of Jerusalem underwent a 5 month long siege (Revelation 8:5) at the end of which the Romans took control of the city and temple and began the demolition process. The war continued for another 3 1/2 years and came to an end with the fall of Masada in 73 A.D.

So the 3 1/2 years marks the most important single event in this whole war, the siege and destruction of the Holy City and the Temple, "in the midst of" Daniel's 70th week when the sacrifice and oblation (the daily sin-offering and drink-offering) were to cease, as it did on the 10th Ab, 70 A.D., midway through the war, and there hasn't been another sacrifice or oblation offered according to the Law since the generation of Jesus' first coming.

If that was what you were asking the significance of.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Therapon]

As this topic is about Revelation 12:1-6 I asked this in a post to Therapon which he did not answer. He seems to be stuck on Islam.

They are the same time period. Why are they mentioned twice in the space of a few verses? Also it has nothing to do with Islam. When reading it it looks like Elijah who fled for 3.5 years into the wilderness and was fed by Ravens. Why does God use that imagery?

No they are not the same time period! God gave us a prophetic "day" for a year in Eze 4:5-6. He did not give us a prophetic "time" for a year, so the latter is a different duration of time. But experience has shown me that it is useless to try to educate anyone on here to the subtiltes of scriptural interpretation and you wouldn't believe me if I did.

 

[Drett]

No it is not the USA . . .

Revelation 12:1-6 KJV And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun (Jesus is the Sun, Malachi 4:2), and the moon (the Church) under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (the twelve tribes of Israel, Genesis 37:9) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Satan), having seven heads and ten horns (world empires), and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven (fallen angels), and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron (The Lord Jesus): and her child was caught up unto God (Jesus ascends into heaven, Acts 1:9 and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father, Ephesians 1:19-23), and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness (of the Gentile nations), where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (it was 1260 years from when the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on God’s Temple mount, until the new nation of Israel was established).

But I don’t expect the above will make any sense to you unless you have read one of my books on the subject like “Islam in the End Times,” which you can download free from ellisskolfield.com.

Interesting theory. Actually the Jews were removed from Jerusalem around 70 AD by the Roman. It was the Muslims who set aside the christian ban and allowed them back in around 640 AD. The site of the dome of the rock was used as a rubbish tip which was cleaned up.

Also I am not sure how 1260 days become 1260 years.

Some prophecies will only be understood after it happens.

 

[zone]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pilgrimer again.

 

[Laodicea]

No they are not the same time period! God gave us a prophetic "day" for a year in Eze 4:5-6. He did not give us a prophetic "time" for a year, so the latter is a different duration of time. But experience has shown me that it is useless to try to educate anyone on here to the subtiltes of scriptural interpretation and you wouldn't believe me if I did.

The same language is used for both texts in Revelation 12:6, 14. According to the Bible a time= a year. So time, times and a half are 3.5 prophetic years also the 1260 days are 3.5 years using 30 days for a month. You still have not answered my questions.

 

[1still_waters]

Interesting, but I tend to see much more Biblical support for Luke's explanation of the abomination of desolation as Jerusalem being encompassed with armies, which was to be the sign to the believing remnant of Jewish Christians that the end of the Old Testament age with it's Jewish state and Mosaic economy was at hand.

But then I don't tend to put a lot of faith in math, I'm more of a Word person.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Ok I got dragged into this.
Kinda.

Here's the problem with your interpretation.
Oh BTW, I'm an orthodox preterist.
So I'm not coming at this from a futurist standpoint.
Stick with me.

When I researched this topic, those in my camp also said that the Roman armies in the land were the abomination of the Holy place. Now that fits nicely with how I want things to be. But here is the problem.

The term holy place usually references the temple, and the inside of the temple.
So it seemed like a stretch to interpret holy place as simply the land.

I spent a good three days studying the order of events, and I came up with a better (to me) interpretation of the abomination of desolation. And NO it's not the Roman standards against the temple. That happened once they were already in Jerusalem. At that point it would have been too late.

The abomination of desolation has to do with a person called Manahem son of Judas.
You can read about him in Wars of the Jews 2:17:8 and 2:17:9.

This all happened in a Jewish uprising against Rome, BEFORE the Romans sent troops to take down the Jews.

In their revolt around 66 AD there were many abominations of the temple. Abominations that would signal to the Christians in the area that it was time to get out of dodge based on Jesus's words in Matthew 24.

One of the abominations involved Manahem.

Joesphus describs him this way.

1. A Galilean
2. Cunning sophister
3. Came to Jerusalem as a king.
4. Barbarously cruel
5. No antagonist to dispute the management of affairs with him.
6. Insupportable tyrant.
7. Having a pompous manner.
8. Adorned in royal garments as he went in the temple.
9. He was finally tortured and slew.

He came to Jerusalem as king, and as the one who would save them from the Romans.
He was adorned in royal garments as he entered the temple.

Let that sink in.

In our view anyone claiming to be Messiah is indeed claiming to be God, seeing our Messiah is God. (Jesus).
So we have a man claiming God status, entering the temple.
That my friends is an abomination.

And in my interpretation, that is the sign that told the Christians it was time to get outta dodge.

 

[1still_waters]

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.


Who is this referring to? Is it the USA?

The woman is a figure for Israel.
She has twelve stars.
Israel has twelve tribes.
She's giving birth to the Messiah.
What thing with 12 somethings gave birth to the Messiah?

Israel!

As far back as Genesis 12 stars represented Israel.
In Joseph's dream 11 stars bowed down to him.
The 12 were the beginnings of each of the 12 tribes of Israel



[SUP]8 [/SUP]His brothers said to him, “Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?” And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”

 

[zone]

I want to

gonna haveta look into this Manahem......AMAZING.

and no magic gap-week-thingee.

i like it.

 

[1still_waters]

I want to

gonna haveta look into this Manahem......AMAZING.

and no magic gap-week-thingee.

i like it.

Manahem also fits in well with the man of lawlessness in Thessalonians.
Take the list I put down and compare it to the description of the man of lawlessness.
It's quite a cozy fit.

 

[surprisingrose]

I don't understand all of this but some bits an pieces of it. I know the red dragon is Satan, the seven heads represents the Roman nation. The third of the stars represent the 1/3 of the angels he took out of heaven with him. the male child is Jesus the Son of God who will rule with strong authority in the last days. The 1,260 days represents the 3 and 1/2 years of tribulation. I believe the woman represents the church. God hidding us and protecting us during those years of tribulation. Then we're taken out of this world to recieve our reward and then the 3 1/2 years of wrath begin. So, far that is what I understand of this verse. Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more .
r

 

[zone]

Manahem also fits in well with the man of lawlessness in Thessalonians.
Take the list I put down and compare it to the description of the man of lawlessness.
It's quite a cozy fit.

Still always gets to find out the good stuff!

(email me yer notes still)

 

[Abiding]

Manahem; He Who Makes Sorrow; He Who Causes To Regret.

The meaning of his name fits.

 

[Abiding]

Menahem: In AD 66 Menahem was the son of a rebel named Judas the Galilean. Judas believed the Jews should have no ruler but God, and of course murder was the way to accomplish this. Menahem took his father’s philosophy to new heights by raising a powerful band of cutthroats. He overpowered his opponents who preferred peace with the Romans and made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem dressed as a king. Menahem then took control of the temple and had the high priest Ananias put to death. He committed all sorts of abominations. Finally, when he was entering the temple dressed in royal robes, an angry mob seized and killed him.