Can someone lose their salvation?

[livingbygrace]

Unwarranted confidence in human ability is a product of fallen human nature ... God's grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. We confess that human beings are born spiritually dead and are incapable even of cooperating with regenerating grace. We reaffirm that in salvation we are rescued from God's wrath by his grace alone. It is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life. We deny that salvation is in any sense a human work. Human methods, techniques or strategies by themselves cannot accomplish this transformation. Faith is not produced by our unregenerated human nature. - Cambridge Declaration

It is not confidence in human ability to believe a person who lives in the true grace of the Bible must see much victory over sin in their life. It is confidence in the Gospel of grace as written in the NT and the power of God to transform a life that loves and trusts in his son to change them, and relies on the Holy Spirit to sanctify them

And the person who truly loves God with all their heart wants none of the credit for the victory achieved in their life, and wishes God to be given all the glory for what has been done in them, they seek no glory of their own, they seek no recognition from man, they love God far too much for that.

But to preach a grace that does not have to see tremendous victory over sin in the individuals life is to preachy a false grace, it is not speaking of the grace of the Bible, just being selective with what you quote of God's word. A grace thast does not result in great change in an indivuduals life is not the grace of the Bible, the Bible is plain on that

 

[zone]

Indeed not one of us deserves anything but hell, and our justificatioon is by faith, and that is a free gift of God, so man has nothing to boast of in himself.

But it is man's responsibility to look to Christ and trust him, believing that he will change and transform them as they put their faith in him. And as a Christian grows through faith in Christ, and as the Holy Spirit sanctifies them, it is their responsibility to keep looking to Christ and resist temptation, that is clearly scriptural. Yes, we all at times fail, but there is still a responsibility on the individual.

The message of Paul on grace is very clear to me. Sin used the good laws of God to condemn man.
Sin used the law to arouse all kinds of sinful desires in man Rom 7:7-11
And the sinful passions in us are aroused (made greater) by the law Rom 7:5

But as the Christian is not inder law but under grace, the power of sin has been removed(1 Cor 15:56)

Therefore Paul's central message was
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under greace Rom 6:14
This does not mean that upon conversion the individual will immediately be free of much which binds them (Gal 2:17&18) but over time by faith in Christ they will see greaty victory over sin, for faith in Christ will not go disappointed

Paul was the greatest preacher of grace this worlds has ever seen, he told us that we do not earn or deserve our salvation, it is not artained by good works, but rather works are the evidence of a true salvation. We are saved and kept by faith in Christ and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit

But Paul also was clear as to what was expected of the Christian, and he was clear that there were certain sin/wrong behaviour that if continually committed would mean such a person would not inherit the kingdom of God
So if we wish to speak of the message Paul preached we need to speak of it all, not jiust say that we are saved by grasce through faith and leave it at that
Paul explained that in Rom 3:21-30, but he knew what the charge would be. If we are justified by faith and not the law, I can do what I want and still be saved for I am not under law
So Paul put such an idea to bed

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom 3:31


For if sin shall not be our master for we are not under law but under grace, it is plainly obvious that great victory over sin must be seen in the sincere believer. Paul preached freedom and the glorious Gospel of Grace, but he also preached the responsibility that goes with that grace. And anyone who truly loves God in their heart and lives by the truth of grace MUST see much victory over sin in their life, to believe anything else is to deny the power of the cross and the victory Christ won for us undeserving sinners on the cross. Anyone who says they are living in true Grace and loves God and sees no improvement in their life after conversion is not living in truth and sincerity, to believe they are belittles what Christ did for us on the cross and completely goes against the Gospel message of true grace

Grace sets people free, it does not leave them bound, and if anyone believes it does, the grace they believe in is not as Great as the grace I believe in

A Christian's responsibility is to tell the whole message, not what may just sit comfortably with some

Don't be selective with what Paul wrote, on this subject, tell it all

WHAT..........ARE.........YOU......ON......ABOUT?

are you super holy or aren't you? did you sin last week? if you did, YOU ARE TOAST.

do you mean to say i can't stick up the Savings & Loan like i wanted to tomorrow? i can't pull a B&E on my neighbor's house?

WHAT A RIP-OFF.

Isaiah 65:5
who say, 'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.

 

[livingbygrace]

WHAT..........ARE.........YOU......ON......ABOUT?

are you super holy or aren't you? did you sin last week? if you did, YOU ARE TOAST.

do you mean to say i can't stick up the Savings & Loan like i wanted to tomorrow? i can't pull a B&E on my neighbor's house?

WHAT A RIP-OFF.

Isaiah 65:5
who say, 'Keep away; don't come near me, for I am too sacred for you!' Such people are smoke in my nostrils, a fire that keeps burning all day.

From this reply I wonder if you really understand the Gospel of grace or whether you just have a 'head theology' on the subject

It seems that any mention of victory over much sin in a persons life by the truth and power of the Gospel of grace is met by some with consternation and accusations of an attempt to be 'super holy'

I do wonder why this is

 

[bayo6]

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Ezek 18:24-32 (KJV)

 

[Red33]

It is not confidence in human ability to believe a person who lives in the true grace of the Bible must see much victory over sin in their life. It is confidence in the Gospel of grace as written in the NT and the power of God to transform a life that loves and trusts in his son to change them, and relies on the Holy Spirit to sanctify them

And the person who truly loves God with all their heart wants none of the credit for the victory achieved in their life, and wishes God to be given all the glory for what has been done in them, they seek no glory of their own, they seek no recognition from man, they love God far too much for that.

But to preach a grace that does not have to see tremendous victory over sin in the individuals life is to preachy a false grace, it is not speaking of the grace of the Bible, just being selective with what you quote of God's word. A grace thast does not result in great change in an indivuduals life is not the grace of the Bible, the Bible is plain on that

There are many that live in this world that have never been regenerated by God's mercy that live morally and abstain from much sin without the grace of God. The husband does not cheat on his wife though he is tempted. He works and is not slothful. He provides for his family, he loves his wife and takes care of them. He has a good reputation in business, in his family and how he conducts himself around others. He does not drink, smoke or do drugs because he knows they are an unhealthy practice. All of these things he does through human love with dignity and a healthy respect for the life of others. He is disciplined in this life and has a practical understanding and knowledge of what it takes to accomplish these things.

To look at this man from his younger days of sowing wild oats you would have to admit that there has been a major change and difference that is very noticeable and his thinking had even changed from how he use to think as an adolescent. He is very happy and content with his life and family and has the determination and discipline to overcome obstacles that would try and take away what he has built through love, respect and hard work. But this man is not regenerated but lives in the light of morality that has been established in his conscience. He is clean in his own eyes and lives in a righteousness that has profited him in many ways.

What are we going to say about this man that seems to possess all the qualities that we believe should characterize our life as believers? Do we model our life after these qualities or do we allow God to transform us through the renewal of our mind through the word and Spirit. This man has made himself a good moral man but not a godly man because it is without the grace of God and even in his best state it is vanity before the Lord (Ps 39:5). He is not to be condemned for living in this manner but his own moral righteousness is not acceptable in gaining him entrance into the kingdom of God (Is 64:6). Yet a believer who struggles with certain sins in his life is learning to depend upon the grace of God and and to grow in it so that he can have his heart established in grace (Heb 13:9) and to be strong in that grace (2Tim 2:1) wherein he stands (1Pt 5:2, Rom 5:2). That grace will teach him how to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12).

 

[livingbygrace]

That grace will teach him how to deny ungodliness and worldly lust and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:12).

We agree on the end result, there's a first!!

But I would say this is acheived by us trusting Christ to produce the change in us, we cannot do it ourselves

Spurgeon said it is Christ's responsibility to change us, not our own, and he will change us as we look to him with heartfelt desire to be changed and trust him to do it, despite the imperfections in our lives, for we are not under law but under grace, and grace changes the individual for there is power in the truth of the Gospel

 

[Red33]

We agree on the end result, there's a first!!

But I would say this is acheived by us trusting Christ to produce the change in us, we cannot do it ourselves

Spurgeon said it is Christ's responsibility to change us, not our own, and he will change us as we look to him with heartfelt desire to be changed and trust him to do it, despite the imperfections in our lives, for we are not under law but under grace, and grace changes the individual for there is power in the truth of the Gospel

You like the end result but you don't like the process and method that involves the mercy and grace of God and the longsuffering involved. You are acclimated to conformity so that you can see the change of the outward man instead of the transformation that takes place in the inner and hidden man of the heart, where God is looking and working (1Sam 16:7, Eph 3:16, 2Cor 4:6, 12:9, 1Pt 3:4). You want to be satisfied by sight evidence instead of the evidence of faith (Heb 11:1). Your faith has no hope and does not work by love because it wants to be satisfied outwardly and that is to glory in the flesh (Gal 6:13). You boast in not living by the law but by grace, yet you live by the law of conformity of the flesh and that is nothing more than outward circumcision to appease the lusts of the eyes and of the flesh.

 

[livingbygrace]

You like the end result but you don't like the process and method that involves the mercy and grace of God and the longsuffering involved. You are acclimated to conformity so that you can see the change of the outward man instead of the transformation that takes place in the inner and hidden man of the heart, where God is looking and working (1Sam 16:7, Eph 3:16, 2Cor 4:6, 12:9, 1Pt 3:4). You want to be satisfied by sight evidence instead of the evidence of faith (Heb 11:1). Your faith has no hope and does not work by love because it wants to be satisfied outwardly and that is to glory in the flesh (Gal 6:13). You boast in not living by the law but by grace, yet you live by the law of conformity of the flesh and that is nothing more than outward circumcision to appease the lusts of the eyes and of the flesh.

I see your above statement once again misconstrues what I have written(or you fail to understand the Gospel of grace)

I live by what Paul preached(Rom 3:31&Rom 6:14)) and I will let the independant observer make their own decision as to which of us does the most boasting

 

[livingbygrace]

You like the end result but you don't like the process and method that involves the mercy and grace of God and the longsuffering involved.
A ridiculous statement if you have read many of my posts on this issue

You are acclimated to conformity so that you can see the change of the outward man instead of the transformation that takes place in the inner and hidden man of the heart, where God is looking and working (1Sam 16:7, Eph 3:16, 2Cor 4:6, 12:9, 1Pt 3:4).
The inner change in man is reflected in changes all can see

You want to be satisfied by sight evidence instead of the evidence of faith (Heb 11:1). Your faith has no hope and does not work by love because it wants to be satisfied outwardly and that is to glory in the flesh (Gal 6:13).

Another ridiculous statement. Who can say they have faith unless there is evidence of that faith and what it produces
You boast in not living by the law but by grace, yet you live by the law of conformity of the flesh and that is nothing more than outward circumcision to appease the lusts of the eyes and of the flesh.

I could wonder what drives siuch statements from you, but after much discourse between us I sadly already know that answer
I will boast of the grace of God, and no, I am not under law but I know what according to Paul the result of this brings.

What is one of the worst sins of the flesh and a barrier to being really close to God?

Would you say pride, resentment, anger, and a desire to be esteeemed by man would be high on that list?

Or would you believe to say such a thing was boasting of the flesh?

 

[Red33]

I see your above statement once again misconstrues what I have written(or you fail to understand the Gospel of grace)

I live by what Paul preached(Rom 3:31&Rom 6:14)) and I will let the independant observer make their own decision as to which of us does the most boasting

Let's bring in the whole text that leads to (Rom 3:31)...

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested , being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe : for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded . By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

The righteousness of God comes by faith and justifies the believer through faith in His blood. You can only see God's righteousness through the law of faith as imputed and not given by any conformity or works of the flesh to the law that only condemns us. The law did not save us from being a transgressor, grace did without any works of the flesh or conformity to the law. The law is holy but we are to be established in our heart with grace and not the law.

When we live and grow in the grace of God through the Spirit of life we are freed from the law of sin and death that has been established and made exceedingly sinful by the law. If a man live by the dictates of the law and is able to conform to it, that man is not justified nor does he reveal the righteousness of God. The righteousness of God is revealed by faith through the mercy and grace that has been given to us by God through the Spirit of life because of the finished work of Christ. Even when I do the things I should not and do the things I should do, evil is sill present with me.

I am justified by grace and not by repentance and have been freed from sin. Therefore there is no condemnation because I am under grace and not under the condemnation of the law or the law of repentance. Repentance is recognizing my need for God's grace and I turn to the Lord and His throne to get the mercy and grace I need as a sinner. It is not me repenting of sin but rather me turning to the Lord by faith, through the blood of Christ and receiving God's grace through Christ who was judged for my sin through death and put it away forever. So the law is established by the believer receiving grace for his sin in the inner man and not by the outer man religiously conforming to the works of the law or the flesh.

We boast in the grace of God all day long and in His mercy that endures forever.

 

[livingbygrace]

Let's bring in the whole text that leads to (Rom 3:31)...

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested , being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe : for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded . By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law.

The righteousness of God comes by faith and justifies the believer through faith in His blood. You can only see God's righteousness through the law of faith as imputed and not given by any conformity or works of the flesh to the law that only condemns us. The law did not save us from being a transgressor, grace did without any works of the flesh or conformity to the law. The law is holy but we are to be established in our heart with grace and not the law.

Yes the righteousness of God comes through faith in Christ, absolutely, and not by conformity to the law. We are established in our hearts by grace, not law. But it is because of this that the good laws of God he would have us keep are far better upheld in our lives.
You seem to have difficulty understanding what Paul wrote and meant

When we live and grow in the grace of God through the Spirit of life we are freed from the law of sin and death that has been established and made exceedingly sinful by the law. If a man live by the dictates of the law and is able to conform to it, that man is not justified nor does he reveal the righteousness of God. The righteousness of God is revealed by faith through the mercy and grace that has been given to us by God through the Spirit of life because of the finished work of Christ. Even when I do the things I should not and do the things I should do, evil is sill present with me.

I am justified by grace and not by repentance and have been freed from sin. Therefore there is no condemnation because I am under grace and not under the condemnation of the law or the law of repentance. Repentance is recognizing my need for God's grace and I turn to the Lord and His throne to get the mercy and grace I need as a sinner. It is not me repenting of sin but rather me turning to the Lord by faith, through the blood of Christ and receiving God's grace through Christ who was judged for my sin through death and put it away forever. So the law is established by the believer receiving grace for his sin in the inner man and not by the outer man religiously conforming to the works of the law or the flesh.

The law is estabished(upheld) by a person living in the Gospel of grace, we do not boast in ourselves of upholding the law, but of what Christ has done for us to enable the law to be better upheld by faith in Christ. It is he who changes us as we trust in him, it is nothing we in ourselves do in our own strength so that no man can boast. But by us living by faith in Christ the law is far better upheld and the glory goes to God for this. We do not concentrate and strive to obey the written law, the good laws of God He would have us keep have been written on our hearts and mind by the spirit meaning that in our hearts we want to live as God would have us live. But victory is by trusting in Jesus in simple, childlike faith, and a reliance on the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. We are secure with God by faith in his son, and because we are
sin shall not be our master, for we are not under law but under grace

Why can you not accept this, it is basic Christianity.

We boast in the grace of God all day long and in His mercy that endures forever.

Yes we do boast in the grace of God all day long, and all the glory goes to God, we can claim none for ourselves
So we give God the glory for the changes he brings into our life through faith in his son, we have nothing to boast of at all

Biut change MUST come for the cross of Christ is full of power and the spirit sanctifies us.

And there MUST BE outward evidence of the change that has been wrought in our heart by faith in Christ and a reliance on the Holy Spirit to sanctify us, that we may live more as God would have us live because of the cross where His son bled and died for us

So we do not boast, we do not try and impress man, but from our hearts all the glory goes to God for saving us wretched sinners and changing us through faith in the true Gospel of grace

If you find offence with this, I would have to wonder why

 

[Red33]

Yes we do boast in the grace of God all day long, and all the glory goes to God, we can claim none for ourselves
So we give God the glory for the changes he brings into our life through faith in his son, we have nothing to boast of at all

Biut change MUST come for the cross of Christ is full of power and the spirit sanctifies us.

And there MUST BE outward evidence of the change that has been wrought in our heart by faith in Christ and a reliance on the Holy Spirit to sanctify us, that we may live more as God would have us live because of the cross where His son bled and died for us

So we do not boast, we do not try and impress man, but from our hearts all the glory goes to God for saving us wretched sinners and changing us through faith in the true Gospel of grace

If you find offence with this, I would have to wonder why

There is hope for some but others you have to really wonder about, but with God all things are possible, only believe.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Ezek 18:24-32 (KJV)

Scripture doesn't lie does it? Unfortunately doctrines sometimes do. There is a terrible lie being taught in many churches, the lie that people can be free from sin while still enslaved by sin. They embrace the lie because it's smothered in honey of false humility & love. This belief is widely embraced despite many warnings throughout scripture that few shall embrace the truth.

Sin is rebellion, nothing less. " No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." (1 John 3:6) Any doctrine that makes allowances for sin is full of deception.

Luke 13:23-25

Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”


He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

 

[Red33]

Scripture doesn't lie does it? Unfortunately doctrines sometimes do. There is a terrible lie being taught in many churches, the lie that people can be free from sin while still enslaved by sin. They embrace the lie because it's smothered in honey of false humility & love. This belief is widely embraced despite many warnings throughout scripture that few shall embrace the truth.

Sin is rebellion, nothing less. " No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." (1 John 3:6) Any doctrine that makes allowances for sin is full of deception.

Luke 13:23-25

Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”


He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

If you have the victory over sin the way you claim to have it, what are you doing with it? Are you preaching the gospel of grace to undeserving sinners who do not have victory over sin? Are you going out and seeking and saving the lost as Christ did when He was here leaving us an example? Where is the fruit of this victory you claim, is there fruit to show from it? Are others getting victory over their sin? Show us the fruit of your labor and the doctrine you preach? The number one thing is this. Are souls being saved and converted through your message with your gospel? Are sinners being forgiven and cleansed from sin because they are believing upon Jesus Christ and Him crucified? Are they exercising faith in the promise of God to be forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sin that Christ paid for through His blood when they simply believe upon the Lord?

We are to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Mt 4:4). Every word that comes from God produces faith for us and in us to live by (Rom 10:17). Whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23b). Are you living by faith in every single thought you have, if you are not, then those thoughts do not have faith and whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Have you repented of those thoughts that do not have the faith of God, if not, then you are living in sin and sin has dominion over you. Love thinks no evil (1Cor 13:5), have you thought evil against anyone including your neighbor or that wicked man down the street or the wicked politician you can not stomach? If you have then you are living in sin and sin is having dominion over you. Jesus said that if a man thinks in is heart to lust after a woman he has already committed adultery with her in his heart (Mt 5:28). Have you done that more then once and did you recognize that as adultery and confessed it to God as adultery, if not, then sin is having dominion over you.

Some people claim to be free from sin and they live in mental attitude sin and do not even know it and are too proud to confess it as sin when they are convicted. They have the audacity to criticize those that go after the grace of God and hold that grace in high esteem to restore and deliver them from sin and all of its effects. They are nothing more than hypocrites that do not know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and claim to have victory over sin and do not.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Red33, I have opted to ignore you because you have embraced a doctrine of comnpromise which teaches that a person can be SAVED IN SIN rather than FROM SIN as the bible clearly teaches. I don't know what you are sayiing about me or my beliefs nor do I care because I leave it up to God to defend his truth, I am merely called to proclaim it.

My hope and prayer is that you would humble yourself and listen to God before trying to apply the scriptures. You owe it to yourself and every person you attempt to reach out to, to be sure that you are being led by God and religion or the flesh.

 

[zone]

If you have the victory over sin the way you claim to have it, what are you doing with it? Are you preaching the gospel of grace to undeserving sinners who do not have victory over sin? Are you going out and seeking and saving the lost as Christ did when He was here leaving us an example? Where is the fruit of this victory you claim, is there fruit to show from it? Are others getting victory over their sin? Show us the fruit of your labor and the doctrine you preach? The number one thing is this. Are souls being saved and converted through your message with your gospel? Are sinners being forgiven and cleansed from sin because they are believing upon Jesus Christ and Him crucified? Are they exercising faith in the promise of God to be forgiven and cleansed of ALL their sin that Christ paid for through His blood when they simply believe upon the Lord?

We are to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Mt 4:4). Every word that comes from God produces faith for us and in us to live by (Rom 10:17). Whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23b). Are you living by faith in every single thought you have, if you are not, then those thoughts do not have faith and whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Have you repented of those thoughts that do not have the faith of God, if not, then you are living in sin and sin has dominion over you. Love thinks no evil (1Cor 13:5), have you thought evil against anyone including your neighbor or that wicked man down the street or the wicked politician you can not stomach? If you have then you are living in sin and sin is having dominion over you. Jesus said that if a man thinks in is heart to lust after a woman he has already committed adultery with her in his heart (Mt 5:28). Have you done that more then once and did you recognize that as adultery and confessed it to God as adultery, if not, then sin is having dominion over you.

Some people claim to be free from sin and they live in mental attitude sin and do not even know it and are too proud to confess it as sin when they are convicted. They have the audacity to criticize those that go after the grace of God and hold that grace in high esteem to restore and deliver them from sin and all of its effects. They are nothing more than hypocrites that do not know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and claim to have victory over sin and do not.

A-A-A-A-A-AMEN!

thank you brother Red.


CASE CLOSED...(somehow i doubt it)


so here's a REAL sermon for any who think they have "arrived".


2009-11-15am-PJ
No Other gods
(Series: PJ-CDA03)
Exodus 20:3
Listen

http://www.swordandtrowel.org/philsermons.htm



yes, it is LAW.
but then comes the Glorious Gospel.

thank you Red.
~ love zone.

 

[Red33]

Red33, I have opted to ignore you because you have embraced a doctrine of comnpromise which teaches that a person can be SAVED IN SIN rather than FROM SIN as the bible clearly teaches. I don't know what you are sayiing about me or my beliefs nor do I care because I leave it up to God to defend his truth, I am merely called to proclaim it.

My hope and prayer is that you would humble yourself and listen to God before trying to apply the scriptures. You owe it to yourself and every person you attempt to reach out to, to be sure that you are being led by God and religion or the flesh.

You just keep ignoring all those things about the grace of God. The scriptures teach that God quickened us when we were dead IN trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1, Col 2:13). God reached down to us as a sinner and in our sin He shined His light gave us grace and cleansed us from ALL sin with His blood (2Cor 4:4, Is 9:2, 1Jn 1:7). That's what the scriptures teach and those are the words that we let abide in us that we might bear fruit. Is the truth about God's grace too much for you to handle? Is the goodness of God so great that you can't comprehend it? Perhaps the Spirit can help you with the truth, for that is why the Spirit was given.

You and LBG don't like to talk about fruit very much because if you did you would reveal what kind of vine you are abiding in and the kind of tree you are of. If the fruit is good fruit you have nothing to worry about, but if it's not good, then you need to abide in the vine and let the life and the words of Jesus Christ's grace and truth establish your heart in the mercy of God. Mercy always rejoices against judgment (Jm 2:13). If you believe that then you will judge God's grace righteously and see that grace reigns through righteousness (Rom 5: 17-21). Try to comprehend those verses of truth with your understanding of grace and see where you come out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Red33, I have opted to ignore you because you have embraced a doctrine of comnpromise which teaches that a person can be SAVED IN SIN rather than FROM SIN as the bible clearly teaches. I don't know what you are sayiing about me or my beliefs nor do I care because I leave it up to God to defend his truth, I am merely called to proclaim it.

My hope and prayer is that you would humble yourself and listen to God before trying to apply the scriptures. You owe it to yourself and every person you attempt to reach out to, to be sure that you are being led by God and religion or the flesh.

Actually scripture states we are saved from the "Penalty of sin" Scripture also states that if we say we are sinless we are liars. So by this term, we would all be "In Sin" because we still sin.

That was the problem with the pharisees. They saw everyone else's sin, but could not see their own. and since they thought they were so righteous, they did not need Christ. One can not truly come to Christ unless they see their sin and their need for salvation.

The problem with teaching one can lose their salvation is they fail to see the power of the cross. they are still trying to get to heaven by their own merit. And not by the grace of God.

We are saved from the "penalty" of sin, which is death (eternal) Those who are saved have the ability and power (via the HS) to be freed from the power of sin. But they still must make choices to repent of sin, we must do it on a daily basis. We can never think ourselves to righteous, or that we have made it, For we will never be good enough to deserve Gods grace and his salvation. It is satan who wants us to think this. NOT God.

 

[judgedebra]

I believe God knows who are saved and who are not saved, God is the only one who knows the heart.

 

[livingbygrace]

You just keep ignoring all those things about the grace of God. The scriptures teach that God quickened us when we were dead IN trespasses and sin (Eph 2:1, Col 2:13). God reached down to us as a sinner and in our sin He shined His light gave us grace and cleansed us from ALL sin with His blood (2Cor 4:4, Is 9:2, 1Jn 1:7). That's what the scriptures teach and those are the words that we let abide in us that we might bear fruit. Is the truth about God's grace too much for you to handle? Is the goodness of God so great that you can't comprehend it? Perhaps the Spirit can help you with the truth, for that is why the Spirit was given.



The truth of God's grace is glorious. But so is the fact that the Gospel of grace has the power to deliver the sincere of heart from sin that if lit was not dealt with would stop a person from inheriting eternal life. No-one is speasking here of being perfect in the flesh, but only those living with a 'head theology' alone would not understand that certain sin destroys a relationship with God if not dealt with.
Now before you and Zone jump at me because this does not fit in with your 'head theology' if you don't believe me would you believe Paul?

DO NOT BE DECEIVED. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor theives, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God
1 Cor 6:9&10








You and LBG don't like to talk about fruit very much because if you did you would reveal what kind of vine you are abiding in and the kind of tree you are of.
Maybe we don't believe we are here on cc to boast of or proclaim ourselves

If the fruit is good fruit you have nothing to worry about, but if it's not good, then you need to abide in the vine and let the life and the words of Jesus Christ's grace and truth establish your heart in the mercy of God. Mercy always rejoices against judgment (Jm 2:13). If you believe that then you will judge God's grace righteously and see that grace reigns through righteousness (Rom 5: 17-21). Try to comprehend those verses of truth with your understanding of grace and see where you come out.

I am sure the people Jude is alluding to could have used reasoning as you do

For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men who change the grace of God into a licence for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only sovereign and Lord
Jude 4


The difference between you and us is. You believe a person can claim a conversion experiance and then act however they wish for the next ten years and still be in a saved state. That is not the message of the grace of the Bible. You do need to humble yourself and accept scripture, rather than believe you have such spiritual knowledge as to be able to ignore the plainest of scripture on this subject

And BTW

The glory is God's and not ours for the changes produced in our lives, so no-one is boasting here