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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Thats the problem with many. Jude and james both spoke of these people. who claim salvation but thats about it. Their hearts are not in it. or they would show a changed life. yet all we see is lip serive. As James said, their are hearers only and not doers. Thay say they have faith. but have no works to prove their faith was real. this it as james said is a dead faith and usless in the eternal scheme of things.
I still think it is funny. Those who think you can lose salvation say i am this type of Christian and believe in it.
yet the licentious crowd think I am legalistic!
Go figure
EG
I was not refering of, or thinking of any post you have written on this subject in the comment you are replying to
You have said I believe that a sincere conversion MUST bring change in a persons life, I agree with that. My issue is with those who say even if no change is brought about a person can still claim to be in and continue in a saved state
And I agree, a life that no change is produced in is a life with a heart that is not truly in Christianity
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FireOnTheAltar
Guest
The goodness of God is so great that not only did He die to forgive me of past mistakes, but that He is also willing to come to my rescue when I ask him to help me from making present and future mistakes. Which is easiier? To forgive someone of past mistakes or to assist them when they ask you to be there to help them from making future ones? What good parent wouldn't come running to their childf's side when their child cries out for help?
This my friend is the true grace of God. Forgiveness of Past sins as well as deliverance from future sin. This is what John calls "Abiding in Christ" and Paul calls "Walking in the Spirit".
1 John 3:19-24
This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:
If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
This my friend is the true grace of God. Forgiveness of Past sins as well as deliverance from future sin. This is what John calls "Abiding in Christ" and Paul calls "Walking in the Spirit".
1 John 3:19-24
This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:
If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I know. I was just commenting on what you said. Not disagreeing with you. I was just adding to your thought so to speak.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
The great thing about our father is not only that he will help us if we ask him to. But he will not just kick us out of his family when we fail, or fall. His grace is sufficient not only fir past sins, But present and future also. We are not given a spirit of fear. where we have to fear everytime we mess up God will take his wrath out on us, or take his gift back. He is our daddy. Where he knows we will mess up. And yet he knows we will always return to him.
Yes he chastens us. It is this chastening which brings us back. I know. I have been there!
I think we have all been there EG. But to me over time even if we often take two steps forward and one step back we see a steady improvement in our lives because we are living in the truth of grace.
I don't believe the issue here is concerning we all need to be living in the truth of Grace, by faith in Christ and not law/personal goodness etc. The issue is. Must change and victory over much sin be seen in the sincere Christian over time. I believe it must
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FireOnTheAltar
Guest
I completely agree. I have been there myself.
But what of those who's doctrines teach that they can fully embrace God and sin at the same time (serving two masters, God & the flesh) thus , after the initial act of "salvation" (if you can even call it that), there is no longer any need to turn to, fellowship with, or rely on Christ dwelling in us, in the form of Holy Spirit? Is this what the bible teaches? Certainly not! Their salvation rests in the doctrines of men, not Christ and their religious pride shall be their downfall.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I completely agree. I have been there myself.
But what of those who's doctrines teach that they can fully embrace God and sin at the same time (serving two masters, God & the flesh) thus , after the initial act of "salvation" (if you can even call it that), there is no longer any need to turn to, fellowship with, or rely on Christ dwelling in us, in the form of Holy Spirit? Is this what the bible teaches? Certainly not! Their salvation rests in the doctrines of men, not Christ and their religious pride shall be their downfall.
I agree. What I don't like is people who say that these people will lose their salvation. I am not sure if this is what you believe, but if it is, I disagree. I believe they never had it. God knows our hearts. He is not going to save someone who has not truly repented. And a person who truly repents will show a changed life.
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FireOnTheAltar
Guest
Agreed. Then question that reamins is this: just what is biblical salvation? Is it merely believing ""I believe Christ died for the forgiveness of sins" or is it "I believe that Jesus is the Christ and I put my trust not only in the cross but also the truth Jesus that taught and walked out during his life"?
I have no doubt what so ever that satan and his minions believe that Christ died for the forgiveness of sins. However, a true believer trusts that Jesus not only died so that they might be forgiven but also that every word out of His mouth rings true. So when Jesus says that an immoral man will never enter into His kingdom, he believes and trusts that God has provided the means to avoid such pitfalls. That means is not some form of hypothetical grace that teaches God simply ignores sin after salvation as so many today preach and teach. Rather, God's means to avoid such pitfalls is complete reliance on the indwelling Christ in the moment of temptation. Of course His forgiveness is always there if and when we stumble and fall.
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He believes with every fiber of his being that salvation can be lost and forfeited, he has to, because of how he understand grace and the nature of God. If he doesn't believe that salvation can be lost and forfeited or walked away from, then his entire belief system will come crumbling down. He does not believe that God is able to keep those that has purchased with His blood. He does not believe that the grace of God is sufficient in all things. He does not believe that when we sin that we have an advocate through Christ.
He does not believe that we when we sin we can approach the throne of grace and boldly confess our sin and obtain mercy and grace because Christ had paid for it and put away all our sin. He has this delusion and presumption that we are teaching that you can have grace and live in sin at the same time. No one has said any such thing. This is how they think because of what is in their heart. Their understanding of God's grace is limited and conditional and is based upon whether a person is sincere or not. That is so shallow and filled with condemnation and rules out all those that would come to God by faith not even knowing if they are sincere in their approach to God. They approach God based upon what He says and not based upon their sincerity. If you want their conditional gospel of grace and mercy go right ahead and you will see just what kind of fruit these men will bear through it.
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FireOnTheAltar
Guest
Sin is not something to be taken lightly. Sin is not "works", sin is rebellion! While scripture teaches that we are not saved by "works", the "works" that the bible is referring to is feeding the hungry, helping the homeless and caring for both widow & orphans. Such deeds do not result in salvation, such deeds are the result OF salvation. Any doctrine that attempts to define sin in any other way than "willing defiance against God Himself", is teaching a doctrine of compromise.
So why does sin grieve God so much when He so willingly forgives us of past sins when we repent? It's because we either do not understand or turn a blind eye to the fact that He has already provided the means of escape when we are faced with temptation (1 Cor 10:13). That intentional, premeditated sin is avoidable of we put our completele trust and reliance in Him rather than simply rolling over and allowing the flesh to have it's way with us.
So why does sin grieve God so much when He so willingly forgives us of past sins when we repent? It's because we either do not understand or turn a blind eye to the fact that He has already provided the means of escape when we are faced with temptation (1 Cor 10:13). That intentional, premeditated sin is avoidable of we put our completele trust and reliance in Him rather than simply rolling over and allowing the flesh to have it's way with us.
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FireOnTheAltar
Guest
I believe that when we continually and willingly turn a blind eye toward God's means of escape, which is the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, then God allows us to be overwhealmed with a reprobate mind (Romans 1). Whether they were never saved or backslidden is beside the point. They have now placed their trust in personal pride concerning religious doctrine than the living word of Christ Himself.
You don't have the 'gutz' to tell that poster what you really believe about God's great salvation that a believer receives by grace when they call out to the Lord and are justified completely when they do. You are a first class phony that loves to lay out believers that depend on the grace of God. Your just like LBG and VW who seemed to have lost their way. You are one of those professing believers that would only give grace to those you think deserve it.
You know nothing of the greatness of God and you probably pray like some others who say, 'I thank God that I am no like others who sin and don't live in sanctification'. You have no appreciation for the publican that smote his chest and said, 'Lord be merciful to me a sinner' and that man went home justified. For you this man would have to show some kind of outward process of sanctification and how much he hates sin before you would even consider him to be justified. You might have that problem seeing that sinning publican justified but the Lord did not and justified him right on the spot before he even got home.
You are spineless and have no backbone in the grace of God. You are no different then any of those legalistic morons that put burdens on people but never lift a finger to relieve them of their burden. This time when you put me on the ignore list, MEAN IT AND GO AWAY AND THINK ABOUT THE WICKEDNESS IN YOUR OWN HEART AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.
Can someone lose their salvation: short answer--> no. Salvation is not earned by works, or kept by works so it can't be lost by works.
See this link for more info-->How Shall They Hear?: Eternal Security
See this link for more info-->How Shall They Hear?: Eternal Security
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Rousecarlie
Guest
I think you can lose your salvation if you lose your faith, you need to always be with God then you will be certain of you experiencing salvation with him.
Well how much faith does it take to keep it? And do you have Scriptural proof for such a belief?
Your words here say so much about your heart Red. I repeat. What is so offensive in believing that by the grace of God through faith in Christ our one and only righteousness for Heaven, much victory over sin can and must be seen in the sincere convert
The true convert is not claiming the victory, the victory is Christ's not theirs. Does this offends you?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think the problem we come to is a strong one. Scripture states if you break even one iota of the law you are guilty of breaking the whole law. So who is righteous?
People say I do not commit adultry, or any sexual sin, they don't commit murder, or steal or cheat. so they are righteous. Yet scripture says if you even look at a woman with lust you are guilty of sin.
The thing we should strive to teach is that god loves us. He tells us "thou shalt not" not to be a slavemaster, as Satan wants us to believe, But because he has something better. He made us, He knows what damages us and is not good for us. As a parent you tell your child not to go near something that will hurt you because you love them. This is what God has done. He said don't go near this or do it because it will harm you. I don't want you to get hurt.
Yet do we remember when we were kids, and our parents said don't do this? Our curiousity alot of the times got the best of us, We questioned our parents intentions. It is against our nature to say no. So we want to di it even more. As paul said, the commandment came and gave life to sin (made us want to do it more) and we did it and it caused death.
Yet what do our parents do, or we as parents do when our child did not listen and did it anyway. We loved them. If they got hurt we showed them why we said no. because we love them. Yet what happens to us when we get into addictive behavior? It is hard to stop. We want to do it. Our flesh becomes powerful and the spirit must work to help us stop the things which cause pain. As Paul said, That I do not want to do I do. Who will free me from this body of sin. ANyone who thinks they can be sin free is just fooling themselves. Wee all have our habits we find hard to break. It might be pride. Might be other habits. But in Gods eyes, they are just as bad as any other sin.
Someone once said the ten commands are Gods law for dummies. God said I have many laws in which I want you to obey, so you do not hurth yourself. But I will just give you a list of ten. Which you can not even obey these. This will prove to you you need a savior.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
As to what is biblical salvation?
1. It is a gift of God given to all who place their trust in him.
2. It is given by the redemptive sactifice of Christ. who took the penaly we deserve, and as scripture says "nailed it to the cross.
3. It is God giving us his rightiousness through imputation as we are declared free of guilt (justification)
4. It is being washed by the spirit through his spiritual circumcision and baptism.
5. It is being made a child of God.
6. It is passing from death to life (born again)
7. It is being sealed with the holy spirit of promise until the day of redemption. A seal no man can break, not even ourselves.
8. It is being given the inheritance given us by and through Christ, which includes earthly promises and heavenly.
9. It is eternal life. If this life is not eternal for ANY reason. It is not eternal life, but conditional life.