Can someone lose their salvation?

[livingbygrace]

You don't have the 'gutz' to tell that poster what you really believe about God's great salvation that a believer receives by grace when they call out to the Lord and are justified completely when they do. You are a first class phony that loves to lay out believers that depend on the grace of God. Your just like LBG and VW who seemed to have lost their way. You are one of those professing believers that would only give grace to those you think deserve it.

You know nothing of the greatness of God and you probably pray like some others who say, 'I thank God that I am no like others who sin and don't live in sanctification'. You have no appreciation for the publican that smote his chest and said, 'Lord be merciful to me a sinner' and that man went home justified. For you this man would have to show some kind of outward process of sanctification and how much he hates sin before you would even consider him to be justified. You might have that problem seeing that sinning publican justified but the Lord did not and justified him right on the spot before he even got home.

You are spineless and have no backbone in the grace of God. You are no different then any of those legalistic morons that put burdens on people but never lift a finger to relieve them of their burden. This time when you put me on the ignore list, MEAN IT AND GO AWAY AND THINK ABOUT THE WICKEDNESS IN YOUR OWN HEART AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

You spend your time on cc telling others they are gutless, spineless, morons, phonies, they are condemned, hetetics, possessed by the spirit of antichrist and condemned

Then you say we must always speak to our Chriustian brother and sister at all times to edify them, and you constantly speak of love and humility

Such hypocrisy is truly alarming

 

[zone]

EG
My issue is with those who say even if no change is brought about a person can still claim to be in and continue in a saved state

Prosecutor: Mr. Strawman...please tell the court: did you or did you not say you lived like the devil for 10 years and still claim to be saved?

Strawman: HUH? i'm not even real.

Judge: case dismissed! Mr. Prosecutor, please bring forward a real defendant next time. you are wasting the court's time.

 

[zone]

The goodness of God is so great that not only did He die to forgive me of past mistakes, but that He is also willing to come to my rescue when I ask him to help me from making present and future mistakes. Which is easiier? To forgive someone of past mistakes or to assist them when they ask you to be there to help them from making future ones? What good parent wouldn't come running to their childf's side when their child cries out for help?

This my friend is the true grace of God. Forgiveness of Past sins as well as deliverance from future sin. This is what John calls "Abiding in Christ" and Paul calls "Walking in the Spirit".

which is it?
MISTAKES, OR SIN?

Christ did not die to FORGIVE YOUR MISTAKES.

 

[zone]

But I will just give you a list of ten. Which you can not even obey these. This will prove to you you need a savior.

oh but haven't you heard?

some work so hard at it, they are so anointed, they eventually enter behind the veil (which apparently was not rent so the rest of us may enter) and are purified, and are indeed able to obey Moses, even unto righteousness before God.

they hardly EVER sin..in fact, we're not quite sure if they ever do anymore.... now they just make mistakes.

they're the Servants of The Lord who are commissioned with continually telling us licentious, lazy, WORKERS how sinful and dull we are.

i mean, can't you tell by their language how holy they are?

 

[Red33]

Your words here say so much about your heart Red. I repeat. What is so offensive in believing that by the grace of God through faith in Christ our one and only righteousness for Heaven, much victory over sin can and must be seen in the sincere convert
The true convert is not claiming the victory, the victory is Christ's not theirs. Does this offends you?

I keep thinking over and over what Christ said in (Mt 9:11-13), 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth , I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

It seems that sinners were always on the mind of Jesus Christ. He was always putting himself in the midst of sinners. He was even accused of being too friendly with those publicans and other sinners. He spent time with protitutes, adulterers and even some of the Pharisees that would invite him to their home or just to talk. I think He also thought of them as sinners in need of His mercy and when there was an opening He took advantage of it and would impart His doctrine.

He was always dealing with sin in one form or another and He always seemed to minister grace and encouraged the same. After all He was full of grace and truth but He did not come to judge or condemn but to seek and to save. When others would want to condemn He would not. He was so full of grace and so full of truth that it led Him to the cross to be crucified and judged for our sins. What a propitiation for sins and what a mercy seat He was and is and will always be. He longs to justify the guilty and to forgive and cleans them from sin. He is not willing that any should perish but that ALL would come to repentance.

Is 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed ? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised , and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken , smitten of God, and afflicted . 5 But he was woundedhttp://christianchat.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-a for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed . 6 All we like sheep have gone astray ; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laidhttp://christianchat.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-b on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed , and he was afflicted , yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb , so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prisonhttp://christianchat.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-c and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death;http://christianchat.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-d because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief : when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied : by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors ; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors .

 

[livingbygrace]

I keep thinking over and over what Christ said in (Mt 9:11-13), 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth , I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

It seems that sinners were always on the mind of Jesus Christ. He was always putting himself in the midst of sinners. He was even accused of being too friendly with those publicans and other sinners. He spent time with protitutes, adulterers and even some of the Pharisees that would invite him to their home or just to talk. I think He also thought of them as sinners in need of His mercy and when there was an opening He took advantage of it and would impart His doctrine.

He was always dealing with sin in one form or another and He always seemed to minister grace and encouraged the same. After all He was full of grace and truth but He did not come to judge or condemn but to seek and to save. When others would want to condemn He would not. He was so full of grace and so full of truth that it led Him to the cross to be crucified and judged for our sins. What a propitiation for sins and what a mercy seat He was and is and will always be. He longs to justify the guilty and to forgive and cleans them from sin. He is not willing that any should perish but that ALL would come to repentance.

And what has Christ spending time with sinners got to do with what I have written? Absolutely nothing as you well know
The issue is not sinners coming to Christ, but whether Christ can transform their lives if they stand on their one and only righteousness for Heaven, faith in Christ and if they trust Christ to change them
But if you wish to mention Christ not condemning sinners, why not quote what he said to the woman caught in adultery

Go and sin no more
John 8:11

Should Jesus not have said that?



Is 53

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed ? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised , and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken , smitten of God, and afflicted . 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed . 6 All we like sheep have gone astray ; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed , and he was afflicted , yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb , so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief : when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied : by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors ; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors .

It is not good to quote the verses you have and give the examples you do concerning the discussion you are involved in here, it is done with dishonesty as you well know the issue in question and your verses are not relevant to that

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Can someone lose their salvation: short answer--> no. Salvation is not earned by works, or kept by works so it can't be lost by works.

See this link for more info-->How Shall They Hear?: Eternal Security

Sin is not works. Sin is the fruit of a lack of faith.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

7. It is being sealed with the holy spirit of promise until the day of redemption. A seal no man can break, not even ourselves.

With all due respect, could you please share with us scriptures that you feel support this view. Now I totally agree that no man can take your salvation from you. However, I have never read a single scripture that I feel even alludes to that idea that you can not forfiet your salvation. Any scriptures that you could provide, in context of course, is appreciated.

 

[Crypto]

Sin is not works. Sin is the fruit of a lack of faith.

Lacking faith is an example of sin (Romans 14:23). But you're wrong that sin is not works.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Transgression of the law:


G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Sin is works, it is doing something God forbids, or not doing something commands.

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Also see: 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Crypto]

Also...


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Glorification here is in the past tense, even though it is yet future, so our glorification is just as much a fact as our justification. Which means those who have been justified will also be glorified at a future date. If not, God is a liar. Everyone who is justified will be glorified and conformed to the image of Christ. So there is not a possibility that someone could fall away from salvation or forfeit it.

 

[Red33]

And what has Christ spending time with sinners got to do with what I have written? Absolutely nothing as you well know
The issue is not sinners coming to Christ, but whether Christ can transform their lives if they stand on their one and only righteousness for Heaven, faith in Christ and if they trust Christ to change them
But if you wish to mention Christ not condemning sinners, why not quote what he said to the woman caught in adultery

Go and sin no more
John 8:11

Should Jesus not have said that?


Here is another great illustration of the God's super-abounding grace toward a woman that was caught in the very act of adultery by at least two witnesses. They brought her to the temple were Jesus was teaching and ask Him what should be done. According to the law they could stone her for the adultery and being caught in the very act, but Jesus was silent and just drew in the sand with his finger. They asked Him again and He got up and convicted their hearts and conscience from the eldest to the youngest that they all were guilty of sin and they put down their stones and left the temple.

Then Jesus, who was full of grace and truth asks this question of the adulterous woman. 'Where are your accusers'. What a powerful thing to ask this women who was ready to be stoned to death according to the law for her adultery, but all those that accused her were gone and she was left alone in the temple one on one with Jesus. Then the next thing that comes from the lips of Christ rings out the very purpose for which He came, 'NEITHER DO I CONDEMN THEE, GO AND SIN NO MORE!'

This is where we see the grace of God in action in two very powerful ways. First, with all the grace that was in and upon Him, He does not condemn her, even though He was the only one qualified to do so because He was without sin. Nor did He ask her to repent of her adultery. But what He did do is give her grace by not condemning her and then with that grace empowered her to go and sin no more. This adulterous women met face to face with Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, and His heart was filled with mercy toward her and so much so that He did not even mention her sin.

How many of us have sinned and God did not condemn us but through love and the conviction of that grace we were allowed to go on with no sin, because we were cleansed instantly. That is the the one and true God that came down from heaven to seek and save the lost and to purge us from all sin and never, never, never condemn us or leave us nor forsake us when we sin. Thank he Lord Jesus Christ for His great love toward us while we were yet sinners.

 

[zone]

Also...


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Glorification here is in the past tense, even though it is yet future, so our glorification is just as much a fact as our justification. Which means those who have been justified will also be glorified at a future date. If not, God is a liar. Everyone who is justified will be glorified and conformed to the image of Christ. So there is not a possibility that someone could fall away from salvation or forfeit it.

amen.
thank you.

 

[livingbygrace]

And what has Christ spending time with sinners got to do with what I have written? Absolutely nothing as you well know
The issue is not sinners coming to Christ, but whether Christ can transform their lives if they stand on their one and only righteousness for Heaven, faith in Christ and if they trust Christ to change them
But if you wish to mention Christ not condemning sinners, why not quote what he said to the woman caught in adultery

Go and sin no more
John 8:11

Should Jesus not have said that?


Here is another great illustration of the God's super-abounding grace toward a woman that was caught in the very act of adultery by at least two witnesses. They brought her to the temple were Jesus was teaching and ask Him what should be done. According to the law they could stone her for the adultery and being caught in the very act, but Jesus was silent and just drew in the sand with his finger. They asked Him again and He got up and convicted their hearts and conscience from the eldest to the youngest that they all were guilty of sin and they put down their stones and left the temple.

Then Jesus, who was full of grace and truth asks this question of the adulterous woman. 'Where are your accusers'. What a powerful thing to ask this women who was ready to be stoned to death according to the law for her adultery, but all those that accused her were gone and she was left alone in the temple one on one with Jesus. Then the next thing that comes from the lips of Christ rings out the very purpose for which He came, 'NEITHER DO I CONDEMN THEE, GO AND SIN NO MORE!'

This is where we see the grace of God in action in two very powerful ways. First, with all the grace that was in and upon Him, He does not condemn her, even though He was the only one qualified to do so because He was without sin. Nor did He ask her to repent of her adultery. But what He did do is give her grace by not condemning her and then with that grace empowered her to go and sin no more. This adulterous women met face to face with Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, and His heart was filled with mercy toward her and so much so that He did not even mention her sin.

How many of us have sinned and God did not condemn us but through love and the conviction of that grace we were allowed to go on with no sin, because we were cleansed instantly. That is the the one and true God that came down from heaven to seek and save the lost and to purge us from all sin and never, never, never condemn us or leave us nor forsake us when we sin. Thank he Lord Jesus Christ for His great love toward us while we were yet sinners.

Well none of this as you very well know has anything at all to do with the discussion at hand

No-one is doubting that sinners can come to Christ, or that they will be immediately forgiven and declared righteous in God's sight by faith in his son, and it does not matter how much of a sinner a person has been

The issue as you well know is that once a person is saved, if they live in the truth of grace and stand by faith in Christ their one and only righteousness for Heaven, they must see much victory over sin in their life. This has nothing at all to do with sinners coming to Christ or Christ spending time with sinners. You are going all over the place to avoid the subject at hand which I am sure all will note.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Lacking faith is an example of sin (Romans 14:23). But you're wrong that sin is not works.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Transgression of the law:


G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Sin is works, it is doing something God forbids, or not doing something commands.

Jam 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Also see: 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

So how would you incclude sin in the following statement: "We are saved by faith, not by works." Since when has anyone implied that sin can save anyone?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Also...


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Glorification here is in the past tense, even though it is yet future, so our glorification is just as much a fact as our justification. Which means those who have been justified will also be glorified at a future date. If not, God is a liar. Everyone who is justified will be glorified and conformed to the image of Christ. So there is not a possibility that someone could fall away from salvation or forfeit it.

We're not talking about predestiniation. That's a conversation for another thread. I personally take no issue with predestination in biblical context however, I'm not a fan of Calvin's interpretation.

 

[Crypto]

We're not talking about predestiniation. That's a conversation for another thread. I personally take no issue with predestination in biblical context however, I'm not a fan of Calvin's interpretation.

Predestination is a biblical doctrine, and it alone refutes the doctrine that one can lose their salvation. But I didn't go that direction, I went with glorification. It's less controversial.

 

[Crypto]

So how would you incclude sin in the following statement: "We are saved by faith, not by works." Since when has anyone implied that sin can save anyone?

What you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Predestination is a biblical doctrine, and it alone refutes the doctrine that one can lose their salvation.

Ok then, how does one know that they are truly predestined or all they have is just another religion? If you are familiar with the history of the Reformation along with the 1st & 2nd Great Awakenings, it was common place for people to defend their sinful and complacent lifestyles with predestination. Some even went so far as to persecute and even martyr anyone who disagreed with their doctrines. Arminians, Quakers, Primitive Baptists among others have lost their lives because people believed that anyone who disagreed with their view of predestination used that very view to justify murder, under the assumption that their opponents were predestined for hell.

This is AN entirely different topic than the current discussion.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

What you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

Exactly because what you said had no bearing on the conversation at hand. You definition of sin verified everything that I have been saying, that sin is rebellion against God.

 

[mpaper345]

The Bible does say that a person can be saved,and lose out on salvation later on.

A person can start out right with God,forsaking sin,and allow the Spirit to lead them,but then get led away of the flesh,and allow sin in their life,and if it goes unrepented,and they die,they lost out on salvation.

Paul said that if he did not keep his body in subjection,that he would be a castaway.

The Bible says we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling,until we come to be a perfect man in Christ.

Some are saved,but do not work it out.

When the Bible says God predestined us to salvation,it means mankind in general,that God already had the plan of salvation to give to the world,before He created the world,like the Bible says the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.

Some people think they cannot fall because they are saved,because they were predestined,but it means mankind in general,and God is not willing that any should perish,but all come to be saved.

Once saved always saved,where they think they can never fall,is a dangerous doctrine,and the cause of many hypocrites,for they think that they cannot fall so they are not that serious,which the Bible says,if any man thinks he stands,take heed lest he falls.