Can someone lose their salvation?

[marianna]

Me: The Lord leads us, through His Spirit He convicts the lost, all of us, me, you, everybody, but Christ says 'You follow Me' to Peter for good reason in John 21:22., 'Follow Me and I will make you fishers of men', 'Take up your cross and follow Me.' Wow! Fishers of men

In two of the three cases Jesus was talking about death for following Him. Following in the same way He went.
Teaching truth, being persecuted and killed, and being raised from the dead.

In the case of being fishers of men, what is the Gospel message?

I asked about your continuing assertion that we must somehow "follow" the Holy Spirit.
Where is He?

We must choose to believe, this does require faith, because, at this point God's grace is only known by words of Christ having died on the cross. This is DEAD, just a BELIEF in God, like the demons even BELIEVE IN GOD, Mari .

So you do not believe that The Holy Spirit is at work in the hearing and preaching of the word? That the words Jesus spoke and all God's words are just dead words?

Then how is it you came to believe?

Why would you believe something that is dead?

Exactly what does the Spirit do? Is He going to convict you of the truth of sin and hell and salvation and Jesus without the scriptures?

I thought you said this:

Me: The Lord leads us, through His Spirit He convicts the lost, all of us, me, you, everybody

But, yes, once you believe, and, ask to receive His Spirit, oh, my, milady, that iscwhen your belief gets wings, flies, high above the sky, when you faith-fully believe you will put your fate in the hands of God and NOT deny/leave Him no matter WHAT comes your way.

This is a modern heretical teaching.
You can not believe without the Holy Spirit.
You do not ask to receive Him.
It is He Who is working in you to start with.

You will.realize our decisions have consequences but trusting in Him , through faith, understanding of His grace and great mercy, we wil Live, mari, for THIS IS LIFE, AND, NOT JUST LIFE BUT LIFE ON HEAVEN AND EARTH FOREVERMORE FOLLOWING HIM

Following Who Where?

 

[GreenNnice]

The Holy Spirit is who we are to follow. Jesus said to follow Him..

Once Jesus left earth He gave us a Helper, Advocate, Counselor, who resides and abides in us. And, we are to abide in Him, too.
Isaiah 11 shows the powerful leading of Christ who was the only One with the Spirit while he walked the earth as a man. .
Jesus great miracles in bible times show us His power in Him.

 

[GreenNnice]

Gotta go. Sorry, mari, been on 4 hours, gotta go work, I would Love to talk about the Holy Spirit mote, and, as He leads, answer all your questions, but, . Gotta go.

The Lord leads

 

[marianna]

11 from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—2 the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD—and he will delight in the fear of the LORD

He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; but with righteousness he will judge the needy, 4 with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. Righteousness will be his belt 5 and faithfulness the sash around his waist.

The wolf will live with the lamb, 6 the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling [a] together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, 7 their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the cobra’s den, 8 and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy 9 on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

This is not an answer to my qeustion.
The above is about the Messiah.

I asked where the Holy Spirit is right now (for you), and how does He expect you to follow Him?
Where is going?
Is He going to wait for you?

 

[marianna]

Gotta go. Sorry, mari, been on 4 hours, gotta go work, I would Love to talk about the Holy Spirit mote, and, as He leads, answer all your questions, but, . Gotta go.

The Lord leads

OK. Have a wonderful day.
God Bless

 

[angelofmercy]

The Holy Spirit is who we are to follow. Jesus said to follow Him..

Once Jesus left earth He gave us a Helper, Advocate, Counselor, who resides and abides in us. And, we are to abide in Him, too.
Isaiah 11 shows the powerful leading of Christ who was the only One with the Spirit while he walked the earth as a man. .
Jesus great miracles in bible times show us His power in Him.

This is confusion beloved. How is this true? John was full with the Spirit from the womb. Joshua had the Spirit and many others.

 

[marianna]

The Holy Spirit is who we are to follow.

Please provide a single passage in the New Testament which describes Christians following the Holy Spirit.
Where is He going?
Where is He now?

 

[GreenNnice]

The Holy Spirit is who we are to follow. Jesus said to follow Him..

Once Jesus left earth He gave us a Helper, Advocate, Counselor, who resides and abides in us. And, we are to abide in Him, too.
Isaiah 11 shows the powerful leading of Christ who was the only One with the Spirit while he walked the earth as a man. .
Jesus great miracles in bible times show us His power in Him.

Truth. I shouldn't't have wrote that, wrote it in a hurry. Thanks for pointing that out, you're an angel. Ok, gotta go .

 

[GreenNnice]

Please provide a single passage in the New Testament which describes Christians following the Holy Spirit.
Where is He going?
Where is He now?

Ok, Lord already, gotta stay for one more post...

He lives within my heart, He walks with me , Is talks with me along this narrow way

You ask me how I know He lives, He lives within in my heart.

[Youtube]MQBBihRwP8o[/youtube]

 

[marianna]

Ok, Lord already, gotta stay for one more post...

He lives within my heart, He walks with me , Is talks with me along this narrow way

You ask me how I know He lives, He lives within in my heart.

The way is no longer narrow if He is in you.
Jesus is The Narrow Gate.
If you have entered by Him you may now go in and out and find Pasture. You are saved and have eternal life.
He is The Good Shepherd.

Will He ever leave you or forsake you?

If not, please stop this very minute teaching people to distrust Him.
Good day

 

[cfultz3]

Please provide a single passage in the New Testament which describes Christians following the Holy Spirit. -- Is not the Spirit God Himself? Is He not the One of the Triune Godhead who is our Guide?
Where is He going? -- To the father's resting place.
Where is He now? -- RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.

 

[marianna]

Please provide a single passage in the New Testament which describes Christians following the Holy Spirit.

Is not the Spirit God Himself? Is He not the One of the Triune Godhead who is our Guide?

I was having a discussion with GreennNice, so our discussion may change slightly. different people.
I am seeking expansion on the idea that the Holy Spirit is leading us somewhere, that He is away somewhere, however far, expecting us to follow.

I will wait for GnN to return.

Where is He going? -- To the father's resting place.

Alright.
Will He leave you behind after having sealed you?
Is He busy with other things?
How does He indicate where to "go"?

Where is He now? -- RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.

I don't see Him. He is invisible.
But I know He dwells in me.
He is working in me, conforming me.
He intends to deliver me to Heaven.

I know He isn't up ahead somewhere (in France today, perhaps?) hoping I manage to follow.
What about you?

These are questions for GreennNice.
God Bless.

 

[Abiding]

2 major errors in understanding

1 following the HolySpirit. We ought to stay on that one. And prove what that could mean.
Especially Romans 8:14 and if there are any greek scholors...please help us with the verbs

2 Piety, in order to maintain good works. This is where we go off self led in order to
please and quiet our soul and conscience..not by Grace through Faith, but an actual
whitewash job. That "can" lead to a deep frustriation and Pride of such magnitude,
That anyone having peace and joy and rest in their Lord is called Prideful and arrogant
for even thinking they can fully put their trust in God.

One of my favorites was Jonathan Edwards who im not sure anyone ever lived a more
ascetic life who became more and more depressed and lowly and sinful in his selfestimation.

Im not saying asceticism is wrong..we have to war against the flesh and mortify it. But
what i see is that to try to please our feelings and self while we are claiming to be dieing to
self will lead us somewhere between two extremes.

One...like Jonathan..who lived most of his life in selfcondemnation, lack of peace and joy in the
HolySpirit. Although few have had been more used by God in spite of this.

two...elitism/piety/nearly gnostic.. those who are above everyone. those who are doers of the word, they
have put away sin...they always are led by the Spirit...and have a deeper inner experience
than the rest of us. They have the personal relationship with God, more than others.
They are the truly serious ones and see most people as lost sinners, grace abusers,
and more than likely, sin lovers.

Most of the greatest saints i have ever read...the longer they fought the good fight of faith. The more they
felt dirty and sinful, the more they matured. The more light there is in a room the more dirt and grime
becomes visible.

My point? Although some self examination is necessary. Living by personal feelings is not
Faith in Christ. For someone to try to please their feelings and call that faith and teach that is what God wants of us?
Badgering the rest of the body to shape up, to fear losing your salvation(which is the opposite of the great commision) is merely a projection of your heart.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love, GAL 5:6.

 

[cfultz3]

I was having a discussion with GreennNice, so our discussion may change slightly. different people.
I am seeking expansion on the idea that the Holy Spirit is leading us somewhere, that He is away somewhere, however far, expecting us to follow.

I will wait for GnN to return.



Alright.
Will He leave you behind after having sealed you?
Is He busy with other things?
How does He indicate where to "go"?



I don't see Him. He is invisible.
But I know He dwells in me.
He is working in me, conforming me.
He intends to deliver me to Heaven.

I know He isn't up ahead somewhere (in France today, perhaps?) hoping I manage to follow.
What about you?

These are questions for GreennNice.
God Bless.

I am sorry, you are basically telling me to mind my own business, but at the end you ask me questions. Which one do you desire of me?

 

[cfultz3]

Abiding,

though not a scholar, here is Romans 8:14

Rom 8:14οσοιG3745 K-NPM - (as many as) γαρG1063 CONJ - (seeing that (why we live if we kill the deeds of the body)) πνευματιG4151 N-DSN - (by Spirit) θεουG2316 N-GSM - (God's) αγονταιG71 V-PPI-3P - (as many are lead) ουτοιG3778 D-NPM - (they) εισινG1510 V-PAI-3P - (they are) υιοιG5207 N-NPM - (sons) θεουG2316 N-GSM - (God's)

Rom 8:14 Seeing that as many as are lead by God's Spirit, they are God's sons.

KJV Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
　
are lead (Present Passive Indicative) = receiving action in the very now with every indication of the future. Example, 'we are bestrowed with grace'. At this very moment we have grace and there is indication of this continuing into the future.

they are (Present Active indicative) = Again, the very now performed by us. That is, by us receiving an action of being lead, we then perform the action of becoming a son of God by that action.

 

[ReinItIn]

Abiding,

referring to kingdom work.. isn't our white garment the righteous works we let Christ do through us? or is it the righteous works we allow Him it do in us? i kinda lean toward both.

Or flesh is transient it will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.. Wonder why we hold so tight to it and defend it so furiously instead of living under his authority and rules of conduct now either now or when we take our last breaht all are hopes in this flesh, one way or another will be gone.

 

[Abiding]

Abiding,

referring to kingdom work.. isn't our white garment the righteous works we let Christ do through us? or is it the righteous works we allow Him it do in us? i kinda lean toward both.

Or flesh is transient it will NOT inherit the kingdom of God.. Wonder why we hold so tight to it and defend it so furiously instead of living under his authority and rules of conduct now either now or when we take our last breaht all are hopes in this flesh, one way or another will be gone.

White robes have nothing to do with us. You make it sound like we make effectual His perfection
by our deeds. Now your back to:

Romans 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.

And:
Titus 3:4-8
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Your second paragraph is all simply based on your presumptions. "We" is not a subject i can discuss
since i have no ability to know whats in anothers heart, or the work God is doing in them. Ill leave that to people like you..who seem to know the motives of a persons theology.

True believers go on to perfection. Only because they are given a new nature and holy effections. Thats not my issue with this thread. The issue is the mechanics of it
and there is alot of false teaching that is glorying of the flesh and not based on faith. That will not work.
Listen how often people say that a person who walks by faith is an overt sinner and proud and arrogant.
Im really not sure by those they understand what rest and surrender is. But again i dont know their heart,
anymore than they know mine. No matter how much they say "we".

 

[Abiding]

Abiding,

though not a scholar, here is Romans 8:14


Rom 8:14 Seeing that as many as are lead by God's Spirit, they are God's sons.

KJV Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
　
are lead (Present Passive Indicative) = receiving action in the very now with every indication of the future. Example, 'we are bestrowed with grace'. At this very moment we have grace and there is indication of this continuing into the future.

they are (Present Active indicative) = Again, the very now performed by us. That is, by us receiving an action of being lead, we then perform the action of becoming a son of God by that action.

Thankyou for some of the verb tenses now i need to look at it some more. Where im going is
this is NOT talking about us following the Spirit...but in reality saying that The Spirit from the start
is active and stays active and will always be active leading us.

Not like in the natural we follow someone, but as a truth and promise He leads us, even in the
definition..it includes dragging us, carrying us..etc. all the way to full sanctification and glorification
Rom 8:30

He is doing the leading..thats the emphasis...the emphasis is not on our following. Although im not suggesting we cant resist or grieve Him..but the point is we have His constant leading or we are not a Son of God.

 

[cfultz3]

Thankyou for some of the verb tenses now i need to look at it some more. Where im going is
this is NOT talking about us following the Spirit...but in reality saying that The Spirit from the start
is active and stays active and will always be active leading us.

Not like in the natural we follow someone, but as a truth and promise He leads us, even in the
definition..it includes dragging us, carrying us..etc. all the way to full sanctification and glorification
Rom 8:30

He is doing the leading..thats the emphasis...the emphasis is not on our following. Although im not suggesting we cant resist or grieve Him..but the point is we have His constant leading or we are not a Son of God.

Something to place into your thoughts as you ponder on this. Don't forget Jesus' words: Come and follow me.

 

[Abiding]

Something to place into your thoughts as you ponder on this. Don't forget Jesus' words: Come and follow me.

Exactly, follow Jesus , but why should i ponder that cfultz3? here in mind was the elitistism in some that constantly say they are being led by the Holyspirit then breath out a heresy. This brings shame to the HolySpirit. Not to speak of the boasting it is to even say it.

The reference they use will probably be that Romans verse so my intention was to show
what that verse both actually meant...and what it DID NOT mean.