Can someone lose their salvation?

[Abiding]

But abiding,

loosing salvation is only a failure to pursue Christ in faith.. So being lost is not Christs inability to save or His incomplete works on the cross.. It is us loving sin and or physical life rather then believing in Him to make us a being that is acceptable to live in the presence of a Holy God.. When his Work in men his done and all rebellion is submitted or removed. He will hand all the kingdoms back to God the Father and we will be his people and He will be our God and we will dwell with him in holiness and righteousness forever.

Rein, yes. Ive not much of any disagreement with anything you have said. But IM saying
in the light of the OP and other stuff mentioned. Thats where i engaged. Back
when there was some error. Mainly where you say you lose your salvation. Id agree
inasmuch as not being and never getting saved is a losing of salvation.

In general? Im fine with what you say. At least as far as i can understand you.
Back to the parable of the sower and the seed...many are taken out(never saved after they heard) as you mention..but those that take deep root into eternal life do not drop out...thats my point.
In that light EVERYONE should move forward and persevere and overcome.
The sheep should because they are His sheep and theres nowhere else for them
to go...and the unregenerate should because they will take deep root unto
eternal life too.

 

[ReinItIn]

abiding,

Actually I have disagreed with very little that has been said in here this week. I have just expanded on most things hoping to benefit any readers that may not of finished reading all of Jesus's Words. I find it a command with promise to encourage, move, compel, shear up, exhort everyone to continue to receive all that is promised in Christ.. Only thing I remember I disagreed with is that our wedding garments are the blood of Christ. And saying if people are preaching a message other then The living Christ dwelling in us and working in us, I don't know that gospel.

 

[Abiding]

I don't know, Abiding. I guess words like 'spin', 'you are making this up' can only lead one to conclude that what you said is what you meant. Spin= Spin Doctor. You are making this up = liar, storyteller, fabicator. But, if you cannot see this yourself, then nothing I can say will show you otherwise.

The only drama there is is that I got caught up in the trap of brickering again. Nothing you said convinced me of change and nothing I said convinced you of change. So let us call a truce. You go and preach your gospel and I will go and preach the Gospel. (That was purposely said, but not reallllllly meant, but just to show that an attack on one's faith is a public slap in the face). But really, let us call a truce seeing that nothing good is coming out of this.

Whatever you want to do. spin means spin. making it up is just that.
If you want to put gunpowder on it fine...just dont put the blame on me
and think you know my intent.

If you want to call it bickering...thats fine also...just dont imply i was bickering.

An attack on your faith publicaly is a matter of your perspective...to me its a forum.


By the way...that reminds me..im waiting for you to bring proof of your charges
Ok ill wait.

1 which post that i called you a liar?

2which post did i call you a spinner?(spin isnt the same)

3 which post did i call you a fabractor?

4 and now which posts did i attack your faith and slap your face in public?

 

[Abiding]

abiding,

Actually I have disagreed with very little that has been said in here this week. I have just expanded on most things hoping to benefit any readers that may not of finished reading all of Jesus's Words. I find it a command with promise to encourage, move, compel, shear up, exhort everyone to continue to receive all that is promised in Christ.. Only thing I remember I disagreed with is that our wedding garments are the blood of Christ. And saying if people are preaching a message other then The living Christ dwelling in us and working in us, I don't know that gospel.

Remember the OP was what it was. we cant expand every OP to have the whole council of God.

Im not sure this is the thread to discuss it but, if your garments are not the work of Christ. Type:
being the coats of skins on Adam and Eve. The blood over the doorpost,The blood of bull and goats,
The cross of Christ.
You wont get into the banquet.

 

[Abiding]

Your making it up as you go if your using Hebrews again -- Yes you have found me out. I am a storyteller, a twister of Truth. Telling people that a Christian can apostate was a story made up by this spin doctor. I should have told the the truth of the matter, obedience to God is a cosmic joke (said sarcastically). Telling people to hearken to God's Voice so that they can be led to perfection was a lie so that they would stay secured in their sins. Who would ever thought that we would have to fulfill God's will. Man, I was doing so good before you found me out to be the perfect spin doctor, fabicator of the Truth. Your apologies seems to be a deflector for a continuance in defaming my faith in God, seeing that you continue calling me things which is so unbecoming of you, a fellow brother in Christ and then apology and then repeat on and on. You call me a spinner (of Truth), now you are calling me a fabicator. You do not have to believe what I say. No sir, you do not. But if you are setting there calling me, a fellow servant of God, a liar, a spinner, a fabicator, then I advice you that by what you judge another by will be what you are judged by. Stop it with the fork tongue of saying sorry and then over and over making it seem I am set out to lie.

ii think Hebrews is a great Book and much needed
especially for gentiles to understand the Old Covenant/New covenant.
And all the fullness. -- Ok. Let us forget Hebrews for now. What is your take of the great apostate which is to occur before the end? What do you say to a person who is in a test of their faith by God like Job was? Should he had remained obedient or should he have cursed God and died? What about Jesus Christ Himself? Should He have done His own will? Why did God punish the Hebrews over and over? Because of disobedience or did He say, "Don't worry, I am just having fun. You really do not have to obey me?" Come now, backsliding is backsliding. Do we loose freewill? NO! So then, how is it not possible for one to turn back upon the path? How is it not possible for one to leave Jesus? Are we held against our will once we beleive? Hello!!!!Im not at all sure why you are going on and on with me about this. I was talking specifically about the use of Hebrews. Ive not once commented on obedience to God
not the lack of it.

But, this is not a text to use that way without care.
A person falling into sin(generically) can confess it..and be restored. -- "There is a sin which is into death, and I say that we should not pray about that sin." 1 John. My point is not that we cannot be restored, but that willful unhearkening to the Spirit's guidance, one who produces thorns and biers are set aside for a cursing, whose cursing is a burning. This disobedience to God's Voice is what kept the disbeleiving Hebews in the wilderness from entering into God's rest and it is what will keep us from entering into God's rest. Was it not willful unhearkening to God which caused Adam and Eve to be forced out of the Garden? Was it not willfull unhearkening to God which caused the rebellious angels to be thrown out of Heaven? Will it not be those who remain willfully unhearkening to God who will be told that He never knew them. Why? Because they never came to know God or to acknowledge God in their thinking? How do we come to know God and acknowledge Him in our thinking? By complying with the Spirit that God's ways are the only way to His rest. Do we not have Jesus' temptations telling us that yes God's ways are to be followed?
Please slow down....your going all over the place. Take Angels out of this for now. besides their sin...we have little need or scripture to tend with.

Now a sin unto death....youll have to tell me what meaning you put into that...damnation?

Yes ...sent from garden..didnt enter His rest...what meaning to you insert there? damnation?

No those who He never knew He never knew...so thats not a proof text for the OP

Why cant you stay with the OP...why would you ask me if we should obey God? Is that the OP?


A Hebrew bringing shame openly to the cross and even go as far as to
say that His blood was unholy. This particular sin of returing to
the corrupt and finished old covenant would never find forgiveness
or salvation. --Any one of us at any given time have the choice to return under the Law, if one is not under grace, then they are under the Law, be it Jew or Gentile. The only logical conclusion to this matter is that as long as you are not a Jews, then you cannot lose salvation. Hello!!!
Although there is a tiny bit of merit to what you said, you cant compare Hebrews system to ours. It was elaborate and they felt to be saved by it..because God had ordained it. .Major difference.
By the way...i think its your logical conclusions that have caused you alot of grief

"Impossible" so to go through the Cross...which they
had left and also the Christian community forsaking them...where the
fullness and blessing were being poured out.

I encourage you to keep up on your studies. -- Yes. In those studies you will see a lot of actions which are commanded, even those which are performed by a human, and by which actions, having a consequence (IF you love me....Then you are a servant. IF any one loves the world...Then God's love is NOT in them). By disobedience to God, they did not enter. By disobedience to the tilling of the Spirit, we will not enter. One would be amazed at the verbs which are active on our part of a condition. Your right...there is a ton of wonderful depts of scripture to the believer...this was NOT may i say again the OP. Still many times you seen to imply or use logicals that Im against
in some way Gods holy word or the use of it, or as if i dont believe in obedience. Strange huh? that
you would take that approach without warrent.

Yes we can fall back...in fact most people have. When they
do be sure to go tell them its impossible for them to return
and that their toast now. Because? tell them because its impossible. --- I am telling people that if they leave their first love, their candlestick will be removed. I am shinning the Light into Darkness and telling people to obey God in their walk with Him so that they can be made pefect by the Spirit. Will you do the same? Or is this too a fabication of my imgination!?

....................First tell me what do you understand removing a candlestich is? damnation? remember the OP?

 

[Abiding]

abiding,

I still have the same point i been making since the very beginning of this thread.

This is my argument... We can not build doctrines off of verses and call them the gospel.. Jesus Christ Has come from God with the Authority of God and every Word He said is from God, binding all men in covenant with God and we must give the same credit and value to all of it (every Word Spoken). instead of picking and choosing the stuff that is easy on our ears and we can use to justify our flesh with.

Jesus Said in john 15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

Romans 11:22
Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Colossians 1:23
if indeed you remain grounded and steadfast in the faith and are not shifted away from the hope of the gospel that you heard. This gospel has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and I, Paul, have become a servant of it.

1 John 2:6
The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

1 John 2:10
The one who loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

1 John 2:24
[ Remaining with God ] What you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1 John 2:27
The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie; just as He has taught you, remain in Him.

1 John 2:28
[ God’s Children ] So now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears we may have boldness and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

1 John 2:28
[ God’s Children ] So now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears we may have boldness and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God. If we love one another, God .
remains in us and His love is perfected in us
2 John 1:9
Anyone who does not remain in Christ’s teaching but goes beyond it, does not have God. The one who remains in that teaching, this one has both the Father and the Son.

Bottom line my point is all his Words.Till our flesh dies. Our salvation is in Him. We must remain in him to receive it. What is remaining in him to me? doing what he says, falling? doing what he says, hurting? doing what he says, doubting? doing what he says, unforgiving? doing what he says, hating? doing what he says, Sinning? doing what he says, fearing? doing what he says.

One more time ...according to the OP were any of these verses your proof text for losing
salvation after being saved?

 

[cfultz3]

Abiding,

On my way home from work, I was thinking about our conversation. I have learned from it and wish to say 'thank you' for being the instrument of a hard lesson learned. Yes, I can sometimes be stubborn to what I am being taught, but luckily, He never gave up on me. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[Abiding]

Abiding,

On my way home from work, I was thinking about our conversation. I have learned from it and wish to say 'thank you' for being the instrument of a hard lesson learned. Yes, I can sometimes be stubborn to what I am being taught, but luckily, He never gave up on me. Good luck in your endeavors.

Well ty for the polites...but keep in mind. We have to stay more on target to the op
and try to take things slower...or it can get all messy. I wont lie and say i know all truth,
far from it. And if im wrong...im happy to find out. In fact just being here shows me
my weakness in areas and i use it for an excuse to dig in the Word and study.

Now im not sure if you really learned anything...biblically that is, because i perceive
you would say all this for nothing more than love and unity. which is cool.

But i do honor your word studies and hope we can chat often. Im not
upset in the least...and truly i dont want and havnt wanted to offend you
and like i said before even if i didnt mean too im sorry for it.

Bad social skills...so im glad to be told...otherwise i am oblivious.

I have a hunch you are reading more into verses than their intent...ive aksed
you your opinion as you asked me to do...yet you didnt tell..and i wont push it.

 

[cfultz3]

By the way...that reminds me..im waiting for you to bring proof of your charges
Ok ill wait.

1 which post that i called you a liar?

2which post did i call you a spinner?(spin isnt the same)

3 which post did i call you a fabractor?

4 and now which posts did i attack your faith and slap your face in public?

I don't know, Abiding. I guess words like 'spin', 'you are making this up' can only lead one to conclude that what you said is what you meant. Spin= Spin Doctor. You are making this up = liar, storyteller, fabicator. But, if you cannot see this yourself, then nothing I can say will show you otherwise.

 

[cfultz3]

Now im not sure if you really learned anything...biblically that is, because i perceive
you would say all this for nothing more than love and unity. which is cool.

--- Yes I learned the lesson the Spirit was trying to teach me. Not Biblically, but spiritually. Hint I spoke of the lessoned learned.

 

[Abiding]

I don't know, Abiding. I guess words like 'spin', 'you are making this up' can only lead one to conclude that what you said is what you meant. Spin= Spin Doctor. You are making this up = liar, storyteller, fabicator. But, if you cannot see this yourself, then nothing I can say will show you otherwise.

Well please learn more....unless i say these things...they belong to you.
Its very unfair for you to presumably take my comments and guess a meaning.
Just so you know...your wrong..and i didnt mean anything close to what youve said.

Of coarse! i cant see that myself. I can only see what i said. K?

 

[cfultz3]

Well please learn more....unless i say these things...they belong to you.
Its very unfair for you to presumably take my comments and guess a meaning.
Just so you know...your wrong..and i didnt mean anything close to what youve said.

Of coarse! i cant see that myself. I can only see what i said. K?

I honestly do not know what to say to this. But, yes. Let it be.

 

[Abiding]

When a person has been asked to dialogue several times about scriptures that they have used and they
avoid it...or just make a sarcastic obsurd statement mixed with incorrect scripture data and
logic that has little logic..where is that gona lead?

If your gona make a case concerning a doctrine and use scripture and then the focus goes on
scripture and your asked to discuss that and you dont and go off saying YOU were attacked. Well your
certianly looking at the forums different than me. Also your falling on your own sword.

 

[cfultz3]

When a person has been asked to dialogue several times about scriptures that they have used and they
avoid it...or just make a sarcastic obsurd statement mixed with incorrect scripture data and
logic that has little logic..where is that gona lead?

If your gona make a case concerning a doctrine and use scripture and then the focus goes on
scripture and your asked to discuss that and you dont and go off saying YOU were attacked. Well your
certianly looking at the forums different than me. Also your falling on your own sword.

There is nothing good coming out of our dialog. Why then continue. You stand correct.

 

[Abiding]

There is nothing good coming out of our dialog. Why then continue. You stand correct.

Yes i spose you can say it bare little fruit.
But it takes two to dialog. And if your gona put
up scripture then not explain..when asked "AND" discuss...then its a monologue.

If its a monologue than why did you talk to me at all?Just leave my name off
your posts. And then it wont get so direct.

Those verses you threw up...i wanted very much to know what meaning
you were putting into them. Not to bug you..as you may think. But
to get to the bottom of your theology...thats what the forum is for.
And i couldnt go on in the OP without that..but you stopped.
You didnt want to tell me what you thought...So yes...full stop.

 

[ReinItIn]

well abiding,

The Lord managers to use me even with all the flaws you have graciously pointed out. if you like I will keep engaging in this thread an expose all the reasons I need Christ Or maybe I should just sit back in silence and let you tell it "all" since your so perfected in your knowledge of the mechanics of salvation. i'm sure God can be fully expressed to all people through no one but you

 

[ReinItIn]

abiding,

if your done with your personal critics and sarcastic remarks i'd like to tell why i think the garments are important.. the only righteousness we have is the righteousness of Christ. So we are back to remaining in him. We overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the Word of our testimony (testimony of Christ) and our faithfulness unto death.. So the only one who can testify to our Salvation is Christ how can we testify to our own Salvation?

lip service isn't excepted

 

[Abiding]

well abiding,

The Lord managers to use me even with all the flaws you have graciously pointed out. if you like I will keep engaging in this thread an expose all the reasons I need Christ Or maybe I should just sit back in silence and let you tell it "all" since your so perfected in your knowledge of the mechanics of salvation. i'm sure God can be fully expressed to all people through no one but you

Well Rein, this OP was not a thread designed to talk about the Lords use of you.
Nor was it to talk about your flaws.If youd like i can start 2 new threads for that.

Is it wrong to ask you to keep things limited to a topic? If youd like i can start another OP
more suitable. Its really difficult to answer someones random comments and try to deal
with every one as tho they were NOT random.

Im not responsible for anyones work in this thread but my own. And yet theres been alot
of posters here saying different things to different people. And who can control the moods?
I can only control me.

So you had to come back and take a few shots? Well thats fine...you know im a addict
for sarcasm. especially the famous woman jab one. And the know it all arrow...excellent.
And the best one of all...Im Gods full expression. Well i doubt ill get a post that good... soon.

 

[Abiding]

abiding,

if your done with your personal critics and sarcastic remarks i'd like to tell why i think the garments are important.. the only righteousness we have is the righteousness of Christ. So we are back to remaining in him. We overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the Word of our testimony (testimony of Christ) and our faithfulness unto death.. So the only one who can testify to our Salvation is Christ how can we testify to our own Salvation?

lip service isn't excepted

Rein, you were the one storming out(at the start) giving critics..and sarcasm...so why bust my chops for it.
If you want to make some ground rules?...im fine with that..ie look at the post you just wrote

Ok i read the question..."how can we testify to our own salvation"

can you add a little on that for instance:

when you say "can" im lost. Can you put it in a context?
Like do you mean as a duty or a command?
If i understand why the question...maybe id get it.

 

[ReinItIn]

the Only testimony that matter to Jesus was Gods, The only testimony that should matter to us is Christs which he gives us by his holy Spirit enabling us to DO ALL HE has asked of us. Five hundred people could of claimed to be the messiah. But, God testified of one man this is my Son.. biliions can claim to be saved. But, Christ testifies of his own.