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Crossfire
Guest
C
Crossfire
Guest
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GreenNnice
Guest
I sure would liike to 'like' one of your posts again, eg. How can we get to that? The Lord leads, this I know, I hope and pray He shows you the incredibly naive understanding of the false-grace-understanding gospel of OSAS that is no gospel at all .
*Green realizes this will definitely not be a post that eg 'likes'
__________
LOL, crossfyre, 'Forfeited!' Brilliant word choice.
Keep in mind, Christ peeps, when I laughing out loud here I am dead-serious about salvation being able to be GIVEN AWAY voluntarily by choosing to follow the wrong folk AFTER you have PARTAKED (Hebrews 6:4-6 a good read) of the Holy Spirit . And, to partake of the Holy Spirit is NOT just some 'NEVER KNEW Him in the first place,' wipe away verse. It fact, it's such blasphemy that it CAN'T even be wiped away
That, too, thinking of 1 John 2:19 , of never being with 'them in the first place,' is insipidly sickly sweet venom , for those never of them in the first place were of the 'antichrist.' Those who denied Jesus in the first place. Of course, they never knew Him in the first place, they were ANTICHRISTS!!
And, that thinking, my friend, is so far from 'grace,' it's not even funny, in fact, that kind of thinking is a dead-wrong, grave mistake to think even, for you teach others that the faith of Christ can NEVER be lost and when one leaves it, by either deception from false teachers or apostates by DENYING the Holy Spirit, then, they are then finding themselves dead, in that grave state of thought. No ifs, no ands, no buts about it . If one can NEVER come to repentance again from leaving the Holy Spirit whom they once PARTOOK of His being inside themselves, as one must receive Him, then He will be forfeiting His God-given seal of redemptioin that is still on Him, but broken. Why won't God allow us to leave Him? Is He really that kind of a God !!!! YOU must stay with me IF you have the laying hands on of you and are now with the Spirit. LOL, where does Scripture say that? Ha. Don't make me end this with a dead laugh .
*Green realizes this will definitely not be a post that eg 'likes'
__________
LOL, crossfyre, 'Forfeited!' Brilliant word choice.
Keep in mind, Christ peeps, when I laughing out loud here I am dead-serious about salvation being able to be GIVEN AWAY voluntarily by choosing to follow the wrong folk AFTER you have PARTAKED (Hebrews 6:4-6 a good read) of the Holy Spirit . And, to partake of the Holy Spirit is NOT just some 'NEVER KNEW Him in the first place,' wipe away verse. It fact, it's such blasphemy that it CAN'T even be wiped away
That, too, thinking of 1 John 2:19 , of never being with 'them in the first place,' is insipidly sickly sweet venom , for those never of them in the first place were of the 'antichrist.' Those who denied Jesus in the first place. Of course, they never knew Him in the first place, they were ANTICHRISTS!!
And, that thinking, my friend, is so far from 'grace,' it's not even funny, in fact, that kind of thinking is a dead-wrong, grave mistake to think even, for you teach others that the faith of Christ can NEVER be lost and when one leaves it, by either deception from false teachers or apostates by DENYING the Holy Spirit, then, they are then finding themselves dead, in that grave state of thought. No ifs, no ands, no buts about it . If one can NEVER come to repentance again from leaving the Holy Spirit whom they once PARTOOK of His being inside themselves, as one must receive Him, then He will be forfeiting His God-given seal of redemptioin that is still on Him, but broken. Why won't God allow us to leave Him? Is He really that kind of a God !!!! YOU must stay with me IF you have the laying hands on of you and are now with the Spirit. LOL, where does Scripture say that? Ha. Don't make me end this with a dead laugh .
I don't believe salvation can be lost. I do, however, believe it can be forfeited.
Here is one for your small capacity to try and comprehend in the grace of God. Salvation can not be forfeited because even if we do not show up or we are found to be unfaithful, Jesus Christ is our advocate, he will not deny us and He represents us to the Father and reminds the Father that we have been washed in His shed blood and are perfect having His righteousness imputed on our account. He reminds the Father as our advocate that our sins were paid for and judged by the sacrifice of Himself through death and has overcome those sins and justified us through His resurrection and on that basis the Father has accepted us and must always accept us on that basis alone, even when we have broken our fellowship with Him through sin because of the weakness of our own flesh.
C
cfultz3
Guest
If you are not in fellowship with Christ, then certainly He is not insdie of us and His blood does not cover us.
Must always accept us? Even when we spit upon His blood and call it a common thing? Even when we call satan our father? Even when....? Must He, really?
I heard someone once state that they were Christian - turned atheist - turned Mormon. This person was clearly never saved to begin with. You don't go from having eyes that can see, to blindness. The blind remain blind until God opens their eyes. Those not saved remain in darkness. As we know, many can claim the title of Christian but not all actually are Christian. Judas was one of them. We can know by a person's fruits.
For those who are saved, but backslide for a short time, God does call them back, often several times. This happened to me. God chastised me 3 times. However, while I was backsliding the Holy Spirit never left me. There were even several times where people came up to me (Christians) asking if I were also Christian because they saw the "glow" in me. I stood out as different from the lost in the world. I recall another time when I was with friends in a restaurant. It was when we left that they asked if I noticed everyone in the room was drawn to me constantly, heads would turn and they were listening in to our conversation the whole time. It was a restaurant of about 80 people. It was not me though! It was the Holy Spirit shining through me, I believe
Although I was backsliding, I was still a child of God. Drifted into the world for a short time, to realize the world had nothing to offer me. All those years of backsliding left me starving. I am now finally eating real food
Selenah - I hope this thread is not confusing you with all the differing opinions. There is only one truth, not several. Important thing to realize is there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. He came to set us free. If anyone has any doubts on eternal security, either you're not really saved or you're listening to the devil whispering lies in your ear. We have assurance the moment we are saved. A person that does not have assurance will not be a good witness to the lost souls in the world. The lost have no assurance so what good news are we sharing with them? Salvation through Christ Jesus, but no assurance? Doesn't sound like good news to me. Eternal security is one of Gods' promises to us. Who can deny God's promises?
It's Jesus' blood that covers us. It's Jesus’ righteousness that is imputed to us. The only way for us to lose salvation is if Jesus sins because it's through Him we are saved, not ourselves.
Scriptures...
2 Cor 5:21: "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
1 Cor 1:30: "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
Romans 5:21: "...so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 10:14: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"
Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"
John 6:39-40: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"
For those who are saved, but backslide for a short time, God does call them back, often several times. This happened to me. God chastised me 3 times. However, while I was backsliding the Holy Spirit never left me. There were even several times where people came up to me (Christians) asking if I were also Christian because they saw the "glow" in me. I stood out as different from the lost in the world. I recall another time when I was with friends in a restaurant. It was when we left that they asked if I noticed everyone in the room was drawn to me constantly, heads would turn and they were listening in to our conversation the whole time. It was a restaurant of about 80 people. It was not me though! It was the Holy Spirit shining through me, I believe
Although I was backsliding, I was still a child of God. Drifted into the world for a short time, to realize the world had nothing to offer me. All those years of backsliding left me starving. I am now finally eating real food
Selenah - I hope this thread is not confusing you with all the differing opinions. There is only one truth, not several. Important thing to realize is there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. He came to set us free. If anyone has any doubts on eternal security, either you're not really saved or you're listening to the devil whispering lies in your ear. We have assurance the moment we are saved. A person that does not have assurance will not be a good witness to the lost souls in the world. The lost have no assurance so what good news are we sharing with them? Salvation through Christ Jesus, but no assurance? Doesn't sound like good news to me. Eternal security is one of Gods' promises to us. Who can deny God's promises?
It's Jesus' blood that covers us. It's Jesus’ righteousness that is imputed to us. The only way for us to lose salvation is if Jesus sins because it's through Him we are saved, not ourselves.
Scriptures...
2 Cor 5:21: "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
1 Cor 1:30: "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
Romans 5:21: "...so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 10:14: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"
Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"
John 6:39-40: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"
So a person can be practically unfaithful to God, live a rebellious life, and still be righteous? Practical sinners but positional righteous, is that what being washed by the blood of Christ and justified by His grace means? What is righteousness?
Here's what the scriptures says: 1 John 3:7- Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8- He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2 Cor 5:17- Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
If one continues to live same way they did prior to salvation, no change has been brought in that life and thus they are not righteous. Genuine salvation brings about inward transformation which is manifested outwardly.
James 2:23- And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. His belief was not a mere mental knowledge of God but one that was accompanied with faithfulness therefore righteousness was imputed on his account.
A
Abiding
Guest
I think why you guys that don't like OSAS doctrine is this, you think that if a preacher or anyone says "once you're saved, you're always saved" that it gives Christians the license to participate in willful sin. That you can go out and sin all you want and still be saved. Well, there are some out there and advocate that so they can fill their church pews and make everyone feel good. Therefore you view this as a dangerous doctrine and I can see you point. However, I do not advocate this. Those persons who sin willfully and have no remorse for their sin are probably not saved, until they have a change in heart. Or I would also advocate that it is possible to backslide, as where a regenerated person ignores God's conviction of sin, but if regenerated, God will chastise this believer over time and bring them into rightful and communal relationship with the Lord.
Many want to use Hebrews 6:4-6 to make their point for "one can lose their salvation". I believe this passage to be misunderstood. See back posts. I think you all would agree that scripture can not contradict itself. Ok, here is Hebrews 6:4-6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. I believe writer of Hebrews ( who I think is Paul) is using hypothetical, and I'm paraphrasing what I think he means, "It is impossible that once regenerated, that if they did fall away (which is impossible to do) they could never come back in the faith again. Why, because it's impossible to fall away after a true conversion and if it could happen, then they be nailing their sins again upon the cross a second time, which is also impossible, because no body will dispute that Christ died only once for all sins." Why does the writer say this? Because of the Jewish people in the church who really didn't know Jesus, or who were not regenerated. We all know that their are unsaved in all our churches, don't we?.. The Kingdom of heaven (Christ is talking about the Church) is like a mustard seed, that grows into a very large tree where ravens nest in its branches. The parable before this one of mustard seed, the wheat and the tears and the one that follows (Leaven) after are speaking of the same thing, there will be un-saved people in our churches, they think they are saved or regenerated, but are not, this is called a spurious faith.
Now lets look at another verse, remembering that bible can not contradict itself. 1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We all believe and agree John means a true confession and turning from a particular sin (whatever it maybe) with the intent of never going back to it. Can you get any clearer then this passage in John? Thus, if any falls away, backslides and/or comes to the Lord for the first time, with authentic repentance, God is faithful and just to forgive us and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Therefore Hebrews 6:4-6, which there is a lot of debate about and unclear, is made clear my 1 John 1:9 in that once a person has an authentic repentance he is cleansed without condition, besides it being a true confession.
GreenNice, forgive me brother, I do not mean to just pick on you, but you give the best responses to make my point, you said in other posts
You- speaking of true faith, of what you said, I think it almost true. I would replace "that will have best" with " has no" and "Never" with "ever"- "This is true belief has "no chance" of NEVER (ever) leaving Christ." Do you think you can leave Christ at any time? I think you are confused, but I see your zeal for Christ. And I see your concern for OSAS and I'd never teach that without teaching the fruits of Spirit and that many listening may not be regenerated, or you are truly saved, God will do a mighty work in your life to bring you back.
You also said,
I'm not sure how you can say cfultz faith is secure and then say someone can loose it. Also, unless our brother cfultz is very close geographically to you in which you can observe his living out his faith, how would you know his faith is secure?
You just summed up 1 John 1:9, and it is in direct conflict/contradiction with your interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6. Thus Hebrews 6:4-6 is not meant to say that a true believer can lose their salvation.
And lastly you keep saying your led by the Holy Spirit in what you say, see you quote below:
I believe similar to you, if we are led by the spirit, it's impossible to sin. The problem is, we aren't in the spirit all the time. Just because we aren't in the spirit doesn't necessary mean we are sinning either. But, it is when we aren't in the spirit is when we can sin. Therefore, if you wrote something you shouldn't have (which we all do, even I) then you were not led by the spirit when you wrote it, because if you were, you would make any mistakes.
It's not like the Lord dangles this carrot in front of you leading you to say this or that, or to go here or there. We are in the spirit when our whole being is in communion with him, prayer, bible study, meditation, and obedient to Him, etc., the goal is to be more in the spirit....Yes we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, but not in the sense you think. The Lord doesn't like take over your thoughts and speak through you, he speaks to us though his Son. Yes, the Lord can use you as an instrument to proclaim is Word, the bible, or give a word of direction for another believer...Sometimes I get the feeling that your proclaiming to be a prophet. The Lord's ultimate will for our lives is to get to know HIM per Colossians 1:9 9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; As long as we are making Godly biblical decisions and seeking after Him we are being led and in His will.
IMO, you want to led by His spirit that you try to force it with your flesh, I could be wrong and you and the Lord forgive me if I am.
Also you said
for 1, the little book isn't in Rev. 9, another human err. It's in Revelation 10, and the book is bittersweet, not just sweet. Why, I believe its John's revelation to the 1 century saints with an application to believers after 70AD. Why was it bitter to John? because judgment was being pronounce concerning his countrymen, the apostate-fleshly Israel... Why was it sweet, God was showing him the hope and reality in the new Israel, the church of today, for their vindication from their persecutors (the Romans and apostate Israel) was near, God's victory is certain, therefore endure the persecution because if they do, their crown is certain, and this how they became overcomers. The application for today, the little book is our bible. We are still to endure the hardships for following Christ, and in the day of the Lord our suffering will also be vindicated and we'll receive our just reward. It is bitter in convicting us of sin, and God's chastising is bitter, but later proves to be sweet; it is sweet because those who find the Lord are forgiven and found righteous in the blood of the Lamb.
Sorry EG and all other futurists, I had to get my 2 cents of eschatology in there
Many want to use Hebrews 6:4-6 to make their point for "one can lose their salvation". I believe this passage to be misunderstood. See back posts. I think you all would agree that scripture can not contradict itself. Ok, here is Hebrews 6:4-6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. I believe writer of Hebrews ( who I think is Paul) is using hypothetical, and I'm paraphrasing what I think he means, "It is impossible that once regenerated, that if they did fall away (which is impossible to do) they could never come back in the faith again. Why, because it's impossible to fall away after a true conversion and if it could happen, then they be nailing their sins again upon the cross a second time, which is also impossible, because no body will dispute that Christ died only once for all sins." Why does the writer say this? Because of the Jewish people in the church who really didn't know Jesus, or who were not regenerated. We all know that their are unsaved in all our churches, don't we?.. The Kingdom of heaven (Christ is talking about the Church) is like a mustard seed, that grows into a very large tree where ravens nest in its branches. The parable before this one of mustard seed, the wheat and the tears and the one that follows (Leaven) after are speaking of the same thing, there will be un-saved people in our churches, they think they are saved or regenerated, but are not, this is called a spurious faith.
Now lets look at another verse, remembering that bible can not contradict itself. 1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We all believe and agree John means a true confession and turning from a particular sin (whatever it maybe) with the intent of never going back to it. Can you get any clearer then this passage in John? Thus, if any falls away, backslides and/or comes to the Lord for the first time, with authentic repentance, God is faithful and just to forgive us and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Therefore Hebrews 6:4-6, which there is a lot of debate about and unclear, is made clear my 1 John 1:9 in that once a person has an authentic repentance he is cleansed without condition, besides it being a true confession.
GreenNice, forgive me brother, I do not mean to just pick on you, but you give the best responses to make my point, you said in other posts
You- speaking of true faith, of what you said, I think it almost true. I would replace "that will have best" with " has no" and "Never" with "ever"- "This is true belief has "no chance" of NEVER (ever) leaving Christ." Do you think you can leave Christ at any time? I think you are confused, but I see your zeal for Christ. And I see your concern for OSAS and I'd never teach that without teaching the fruits of Spirit and that many listening may not be regenerated, or you are truly saved, God will do a mighty work in your life to bring you back.
You also said,
I'm not sure how you can say cfultz faith is secure and then say someone can loose it. Also, unless our brother cfultz is very close geographically to you in which you can observe his living out his faith, how would you know his faith is secure?
You just summed up 1 John 1:9, and it is in direct conflict/contradiction with your interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6. Thus Hebrews 6:4-6 is not meant to say that a true believer can lose their salvation.
And lastly you keep saying your led by the Holy Spirit in what you say, see you quote below:
The Holy Spirit is who we are to follow. Jesus said to follow Him..
Once Jesus left earth He gave us a Helper, Advocate, Counselor, who resides and abides in us. And, we are to abide in Him, too.
Isaiah 11 shows the powerful leading of Christ who was the only One with the Spirit while he walked the earth as a man. .
Jesus great miracles in bible times show us His power in Him.
Truth. I shouldn't't have wrote that, wrote it in a hurry. Thanks for pointing that out, you're an angel. Ok, gotta go
I believe similar to you, if we are led by the spirit, it's impossible to sin. The problem is, we aren't in the spirit all the time. Just because we aren't in the spirit doesn't necessary mean we are sinning either. But, it is when we aren't in the spirit is when we can sin. Therefore, if you wrote something you shouldn't have (which we all do, even I) then you were not led by the spirit when you wrote it, because if you were, you would make any mistakes.
It's not like the Lord dangles this carrot in front of you leading you to say this or that, or to go here or there. We are in the spirit when our whole being is in communion with him, prayer, bible study, meditation, and obedient to Him, etc., the goal is to be more in the spirit....Yes we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, but not in the sense you think. The Lord doesn't like take over your thoughts and speak through you, he speaks to us though his Son. Yes, the Lord can use you as an instrument to proclaim is Word, the bible, or give a word of direction for another believer...Sometimes I get the feeling that your proclaiming to be a prophet. The Lord's ultimate will for our lives is to get to know HIM per Colossians 1:9 9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; As long as we are making Godly biblical decisions and seeking after Him we are being led and in His will.
IMO, you want to led by His spirit that you try to force it with your flesh, I could be wrong and you and the Lord forgive me if I am.
Also you said
for 1, the little book isn't in Rev. 9, another human err. It's in Revelation 10, and the book is bittersweet, not just sweet. Why, I believe its John's revelation to the 1 century saints with an application to believers after 70AD. Why was it bitter to John? because judgment was being pronounce concerning his countrymen, the apostate-fleshly Israel... Why was it sweet, God was showing him the hope and reality in the new Israel, the church of today, for their vindication from their persecutors (the Romans and apostate Israel) was near, God's victory is certain, therefore endure the persecution because if they do, their crown is certain, and this how they became overcomers. The application for today, the little book is our bible. We are still to endure the hardships for following Christ, and in the day of the Lord our suffering will also be vindicated and we'll receive our just reward. It is bitter in convicting us of sin, and God's chastising is bitter, but later proves to be sweet; it is sweet because those who find the Lord are forgiven and found righteous in the blood of the Lamb.
Sorry EG and all other futurists, I had to get my 2 cents of eschatology in there
C
cfultz3
Guest
Salvation cannot be forfeitied? So, what of one who gets entangled in the world again after having known the way of righteousness? Is he not worse off than when he first escaped the world?
Even if we do not show up? A passive faith is a dead faith.
Is He not the Advocate between God AND man? And what does He advocate on God's behalf? Not my will buit your will Father?
I heard someone once state that they were Christian - turned atheist - turned Mormon. This person was clearly never saved to begin with. You don't go from having eyes that can see, to blindness. The blind remain blind until God opens their eyes. Those not saved remain in darkness. As we know, many can claim the title of Christian but not all actually are Christian. Judas was one of them. We can know by a person's fruits.
For those who are saved, but backslide for a short time, God does call them back, often several times. This happened to me. God chastised me 3 times. However, while I was backsliding the Holy Spirit never left me. There were even several times where people came up to me (Christians) asking if I were also Christian because they saw the "glow" in me. I stood out as different from the lost in the world. I recall another time when I was with friends in a restaurant. It was when we left that they asked if I noticed everyone in the room was drawn to me constantly, heads would turn and they were listening in to our conversation the whole time. It was a restaurant of about 80 people. It was not me though! It was the Holy Spirit shining through me, I believe
Although I was backsliding, I was still a child of God. Drifted into the world for a short time, to realize the world had nothing to offer me. All those years of backsliding left me starving. I am now finally eating real food
Selenah - I hope this thread is not confusing you with all the differing opinions. There is only one truth, not several. Important thing to realize is there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. He came to set us free. If anyone has any doubts on eternal security, either you're not really saved or you're listening to the devil whispering lies in your ear. We have assurance the moment we are saved. A person that does not have assurance will not be a good witness to the lost souls in the world. The lost have no assurance so what good news are we sharing with them? Salvation through Christ Jesus, but no assurance? Doesn't sound like good news to me. Eternal security is one of Gods' promises to us. Who can deny God's promises?
It's Jesus' blood that covers us. It's Jesus’ righteousness that is imputed to us. The only way for us to lose salvation is if Jesus sins because it's through Him we are saved, not ourselves.
Scriptures...
2 Cor 5:21: "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
1 Cor 1:30: "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption"
Romans 5:21: "...so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 10:14: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"
Ephesians 1:13-14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"
John 6:39-40: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day"
Amen and Amen. I couldn't have said better myself. But of coarse this must remain a secondary issue. But it's hard for me to understand how a person who is reborn from above could see themselves as not saved eternally, sealed by the Holy Spirit, purchased by the blood, adopted into the family of God, inheritor of the PROMISE, members of the Holy City and of God's Elect.
What is Jesus going to do, hand over the receipt to Satan after purchasing you with his blood? sounds absurd doesn't it. Un-seal you after sealing you? God gives us to Jesus and then takes us away?
C
Crossfire
Guest
My small capacity?
Red, you frequent this website presenting yourself as a Godly teacher yet freely you insult others and make false accusations without one iotta of remorse. It is my hope and prayer that people take notice of such behavior and disregard any teaching that you may have to offer because it is obvious that you are a man of the flesh and not the Spirit.
Yahshua the Messiah said:
Matthew 7
Red, take note of what is being said, your attitude is reflected in what you say above and i believe it is not good for you to offer "yourself" let alone another that type of teaching...
G
GreenNnice
Guest
Books, I don't believe one can lose their faith, but Paul says a believer can 'depart the faith.'
I believe the power of the words, 'the faith,' are more than explanatory, speaking of 1 Tim. 4:1 .
I also believe that one can leave their salvation, and, hmm, yeah, so, in that sense, they, indeed, do lose 'it.'
I believe there is great power at the cross, but if the story just ended there with that grace shown by God, fine, but, no, there are Romans telling us of how to become Christians, how to live the Christian life, how to receive the Holy Spirit and how to become sanctified (made Holy). Then Paul speaks to Corinthians,, their division amongst selves, favortism of church leaders, Lord's supper division, bringing each other to court division is brought to light in pastoring manner by Paul. Then the Holy Spirit is IMMEDIATELY preached in chapter 2 of 1 Cor. , as He in the believers is the way for their minds to be in one judgment and understanding, to be in fellowship with each other is simple, just take on that 'mind of Christ' that , I mean, Who, is in all these Corinthians believers of this church. Paul , in fact, tells them too, to get over who has better spiritual gifts, that you got them is what matters. 'Voided, by this we know Corinthians has true faith saved believers because they have the Spirit Who IS impeRative for salvation is in this 1 Cor. 2. Then there's Love needed , spoken in galations and ephesians speaks of faith and works and grace and being saved and we are made for good works and, on and on, including the 'apostasy' of 1 Tim. 4 and the blasphemy of HS in Hebrews 6:4-6.
So where you get thinking that faith is not a part f salvation I just don't know what to say, I can just pray for the Spirit to go unto your spirit to teach you as you worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
But, yeah....
A lot more to be inspiringly said after grace after The Cross part in the public Scripture, wouldn't't ya say, and, I even skipped 'Acts' great 'Spirit' message
Has nothing whatsoever to do with works saving you either, why OSAS continues to being that up is mindboggling. Only Christ, only doing what He said to after He left. And, that doing is following the Holy Spirit will He help you believe more in The Cross? No, silly, you do that already, your justified, but He will SANCTIFY you, which simply is 'make holy,' so, through His Spirit, which is bestowed you when His time is 'YES,' you will then receive opportunity to use the gifts He manifests through you .
Sorry, books, youbwrote too much, just flabbergasted me what you all said. Wrote any novels, have you 'D
I believe the power of the words, 'the faith,' are more than explanatory, speaking of 1 Tim. 4:1 .
I also believe that one can leave their salvation, and, hmm, yeah, so, in that sense, they, indeed, do lose 'it.'
I believe there is great power at the cross, but if the story just ended there with that grace shown by God, fine, but, no, there are Romans telling us of how to become Christians, how to live the Christian life, how to receive the Holy Spirit and how to become sanctified (made Holy). Then Paul speaks to Corinthians,, their division amongst selves, favortism of church leaders, Lord's supper division, bringing each other to court division is brought to light in pastoring manner by Paul. Then the Holy Spirit is IMMEDIATELY preached in chapter 2 of 1 Cor. , as He in the believers is the way for their minds to be in one judgment and understanding, to be in fellowship with each other is simple, just take on that 'mind of Christ' that , I mean, Who, is in all these Corinthians believers of this church. Paul , in fact, tells them too, to get over who has better spiritual gifts, that you got them is what matters. 'Voided, by this we know Corinthians has true faith saved believers because they have the Spirit Who IS impeRative for salvation is in this 1 Cor. 2. Then there's Love needed , spoken in galations and ephesians speaks of faith and works and grace and being saved and we are made for good works and, on and on, including the 'apostasy' of 1 Tim. 4 and the blasphemy of HS in Hebrews 6:4-6.
So where you get thinking that faith is not a part f salvation I just don't know what to say, I can just pray for the Spirit to go unto your spirit to teach you as you worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
But, yeah....
A lot more to be inspiringly said after grace after The Cross part in the public Scripture, wouldn't't ya say, and, I even skipped 'Acts' great 'Spirit' message
Has nothing whatsoever to do with works saving you either, why OSAS continues to being that up is mindboggling. Only Christ, only doing what He said to after He left. And, that doing is following the Holy Spirit will He help you believe more in The Cross? No, silly, you do that already, your justified, but He will SANCTIFY you, which simply is 'make holy,' so, through His Spirit, which is bestowed you when His time is 'YES,' you will then receive opportunity to use the gifts He manifests through you .
Sorry, books, youbwrote too much, just flabbergasted me what you all said. Wrote any novels, have you 'D
I believe there is great power at the cross, but if the story just ended there with that grace shown by God, fine,...Did I say it ended there? but, no, there are Romans telling us of how to become Christians, how to live the Christian life, how to receive the Holy Spirit and how to become sanctified (made Holy). Then Paul speaks to Corinthians,, their division amongst selves, favortism of church leaders, Lord's supper division, bringing each other to court division is brought to light in pastoring manner by Paul. Then the Holy Spirit is IMMEDIATELY preached in chapter 2 of 1 Cor. , as He in the believers is the way for their minds to be in one judgment and understanding, to be in fellowship with each other is simple, just take on that 'mind of Christ' that , I mean, Who, is in all these Corinthians believers of this church. Paul , in fact, tells them too, to get over who has better spiritual gifts, that you got them is what matters. 'Voided, by this we know Corinthians has true faith saved believers because they have the Spirit Who IS impeRative for salvation is in this 1 Cor. 2. Then there's Love needed , spoken in galations and ephesians speaks of faith and works and grace and being saved and we are made for good works and, on and on, including the 'apostasy' of 1 Tim. 4 and the blasphemy of HS in Hebrews 6:4-6.
So where you get thinking that faith is not a part f salvation I just don't know what to say, I can just pray for the Spirit to go unto your spirit to teach you as you worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
But, yeah....
A lot more to be inspiringly said after grace after The Cross part in the public Scripture, wouldn't't ya say, and, I even skipped 'Acts' great 'Spirit' message
Has nothing whatsoever to do with works saving you either, why OSAS continues to being that up is mindboggling. Only Christ, only doing what He said to after He left. And, that doing is following the Holy Spirit will He help you believe more in The Cross? No, silly, you do that already, your justified, but He will SANCTIFY you, which simply is 'make holy,' so, through His Spirit, which is bestowed you when His time is 'YES,' you will then receive opportunity to use the gifts He manifests through you .
Sorry, books, youbwrote too much, just flabbergasted me what you all said. Wrote any novels, have you 'D
hmm, I have to go back and see where I said faith has nothing to do with salvation, or would you like to quote me? Or where I said the HS doesn't play a part in our Salvation and transformation? I'm sorry that you can't take in what I posted and that it flabbergasts you. I admit, I have a problem with people who think they have a monopoly on spiritual wisdom and the Holy Spirit and it this case may God humble my mouth and allow me to move on to better things. God Bless
I don't believe salvation can be lost. I do, however, believe it can be forfeited.
Well that isn't a biblical belief is it? It is a philosophical belief.
A biblical belief says that Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.
Your philosophical belief says Greater is he that is in the world than He that is in the believer. You are trying to argue, through philosophy, that a person can choose to over-ride God's will for their lives after God has given them His Spirit and caused them to walk in His statutes. Either your philosophy is wrong or the bible is wrong.
Greetings,
i am sorry that i am not going to read every single post, to properly reply. But i would like to reply to the question presented "Can someone lose their Salvation?" i believe the Bible clearly tells us this answer. Below is an excerpt from my article Once Saved Always Saved, if you want to read the entire article click on it.
What else does Jesus Himself teach us?
What is interesting about this verse (concerning the topic we are discussing in this Chapter), is Jesus says “AND I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE” why would Jesus say this if Once you are Saved and written in the Book of Life, you will always be written in the Book of Life?
Once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of life (Phil 4:3, Rev 13:8, 17:8, 20:12-15, 21:27, 22:19) why would Jesus then make a reference to being able to blot someone’s name out of the Book of Life? I mean Once Saved (your written in the Book of Life) Always Saved (you’ll always be written in the Book of Life), yet Jesus just indicated that He can blot a persons name out of it.
Doesn’t that mean this persons name WAS once written in the Book of Life? That he WAS once Saved, therefore his name being written into the Book of Life?
Like I said before, you can’t believe Once Saved Always Saved and ALSO believe what Scriptures teach. One of them is wrong. Let us believe God and every man a liar (Rom 3:4) Man teaches Once you are Saved, you can’t ever lose it, yet Scriptures teach that a man who has his name written in the Book of Life (Saved) can be blotted out of it. Do we have other Scriptures which refer to a person being removed from the Book of Life, once they have had their name entered into it, by becoming Saved? Yes there are. Consider:
Let’s not miss the point here, a person who is written in the Book of Life – God can remove out of it. So says the Scriptures. If then Scriptures teaches that a person can be removed from the Book of Life then the belief Once Saved Always Saved is indeed a false doctrine and is not the Truth.
Scriptures are True, a person can get Saved, thereby having his name written in the Book of Life, but that person can choose to fall away from it, by their own decisions, they can discard it, or reject it, therefore being blotted out of it.
The following statement is indisputable “A persons name can be removed from the Book of Life AFTER his name is put into it” Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that. So then Once Saved Always Saved can’t be Scriptural but is a doctrine of man, it is what man teaches and not what the Words of God teach. Man teaches this false doctrine, so they can have a false sense that they are going to go to Heaven, because they are Saved. These will not try to walk a righteous path, the narrow and difficult path that leads to life, because they do not believe they have to be holy, they believe they can live however they want to live, and because they are Saved, they will always be Saved, no matter what they do. Even living in sin, they still believe they are Heaven Bound, because of this false teaching that they hold on to, else they would have to change their life to walk a much more difficult path. It is easier to believe Once Saved Always Saved, then to give up sinning for Jesus Christ.
Now you should begin to understand why there are 120 verses which state to “Fear the Lord” and as Matthew 10:28 says, to fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Tell me, which is easier to believe, that a persons name once written in the Book of Life can NEVER be removed (Always Saved) or that a persons name once written in the Book of Life can be blotted out of it?
The easiest thing to believe is Once Saved Always Saved, this does not make it the Truth. Remember, narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting, it is not easy. Many think they are on the narrow path, but in Truth they have chosen the easy path and not the difficult path that only a few will find, let alone take.
As i said before to read the entire article click HERE.
Thank you and may God Bless you and yours.
^i^
i am sorry that i am not going to read every single post, to properly reply. But i would like to reply to the question presented "Can someone lose their Salvation?" i believe the Bible clearly tells us this answer. Below is an excerpt from my article Once Saved Always Saved, if you want to read the entire article click on it.
**********************************************
What else does Jesus Himself teach us?
- Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
What is interesting about this verse (concerning the topic we are discussing in this Chapter), is Jesus says “AND I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE” why would Jesus say this if Once you are Saved and written in the Book of Life, you will always be written in the Book of Life?
Once you are Saved, your name is written in the Book of life (Phil 4:3, Rev 13:8, 17:8, 20:12-15, 21:27, 22:19) why would Jesus then make a reference to being able to blot someone’s name out of the Book of Life? I mean Once Saved (your written in the Book of Life) Always Saved (you’ll always be written in the Book of Life), yet Jesus just indicated that He can blot a persons name out of it.
Doesn’t that mean this persons name WAS once written in the Book of Life? That he WAS once Saved, therefore his name being written into the Book of Life?
Like I said before, you can’t believe Once Saved Always Saved and ALSO believe what Scriptures teach. One of them is wrong. Let us believe God and every man a liar (Rom 3:4) Man teaches Once you are Saved, you can’t ever lose it, yet Scriptures teach that a man who has his name written in the Book of Life (Saved) can be blotted out of it. Do we have other Scriptures which refer to a person being removed from the Book of Life, once they have had their name entered into it, by becoming Saved? Yes there are. Consider:
- Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Let’s not miss the point here, a person who is written in the Book of Life – God can remove out of it. So says the Scriptures. If then Scriptures teaches that a person can be removed from the Book of Life then the belief Once Saved Always Saved is indeed a false doctrine and is not the Truth.
Scriptures are True, a person can get Saved, thereby having his name written in the Book of Life, but that person can choose to fall away from it, by their own decisions, they can discard it, or reject it, therefore being blotted out of it.
The following statement is indisputable “A persons name can be removed from the Book of Life AFTER his name is put into it” Scriptures plainly and clearly teaches that. So then Once Saved Always Saved can’t be Scriptural but is a doctrine of man, it is what man teaches and not what the Words of God teach. Man teaches this false doctrine, so they can have a false sense that they are going to go to Heaven, because they are Saved. These will not try to walk a righteous path, the narrow and difficult path that leads to life, because they do not believe they have to be holy, they believe they can live however they want to live, and because they are Saved, they will always be Saved, no matter what they do. Even living in sin, they still believe they are Heaven Bound, because of this false teaching that they hold on to, else they would have to change their life to walk a much more difficult path. It is easier to believe Once Saved Always Saved, then to give up sinning for Jesus Christ.
- Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Now you should begin to understand why there are 120 verses which state to “Fear the Lord” and as Matthew 10:28 says, to fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Tell me, which is easier to believe, that a persons name once written in the Book of Life can NEVER be removed (Always Saved) or that a persons name once written in the Book of Life can be blotted out of it?
The easiest thing to believe is Once Saved Always Saved, this does not make it the Truth. Remember, narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting, it is not easy. Many think they are on the narrow path, but in Truth they have chosen the easy path and not the difficult path that only a few will find, let alone take.
***************************************
As i said before to read the entire article click HERE.
Thank you and may God Bless you and yours.
^i^
The bible doesn't say what you are trying to make it say. It is your inference and your philosophy only.
No where in the bible will you find written that the Lord will write a persons name in the Book of Life but if they don't do a good job then God will change His mind and erase them.
All that is told is the people who are in the Book of Life and the people who are not in the Book of Life.