Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

I was a born again Christian long before you were ever thought of, in August of 1937! The folloowng is the Biblical description of god, that can be taught from the Bible, Jesus and His disciples, contrary to the Trinity:

The Biblical Description of God - in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

And what do you call people who insist on teaching doctrine that is man made and cannot be so done from either the Bible, Jesus or His disciples? And where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible, or to set yourself up to judge others?

Quasar92

RBA238 · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Last night about 10:20 P.M., I lost both access to the web as well as my phone, bluto, I'm here now because access to the web retirned, but not the phone. So I will provide response to your post here, but may not be able to reply to your others until I can clear up the problems I am having with my phone.

[SUP]These are the names of the pre-incarnate person who later become Jesus, the Son of God/God the Son. In addition to who created the heavens and the earth/universe.[/SUP]
[SUP]
[/SUP][SUP]Jn.1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was with God in the beginning."
[/SUP]
[SUP]Rev.19:11 [/SUP]I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes are like blazing fire,and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, whiteand clean. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[SUP][a][/SUP] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. [SUP]16 [/SUP]On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords.

Heb.1:1"On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."

Col.1:15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

Pr.8:22“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”

Quasar92

You nailed it! The problem with most people not grasping this: 1.. That Jesus pre existed with The Father, The One Eternal Spirit before The world was created. This is not true. Jesus never came until The Father created him through Mary. He was in the mind of God thousand of years before God created him.

And the second thing is Jesus is The "Express Image" of the invisble, Spirit of God , and not a "Second person in a so called Trinity.

RBA238 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

How is it "Heresy"? Show proof, not just comments..

RBA238 · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Amen!! & Praise God!

bluto · Sep 14, 2016

It's ok quasar, fix your computer problems and then get back to me. Now, since Jesus Christ is the "Son of God/God the Son" even according to you then there was never a time when He did not exist. Since this is true then logic dictates He had to have existed before His incarnation. In other words, He existed as God Almighty. In the New Testament is when He incarnated as a fully contingent human being. He was not a fully contingent human being in the Old Testament.

And "contingent" means He was dependent on God His Father like the rest of us depend on God. As well I have already gone over John 1:1 which proves He was "WITH" God even before the beginning of time in eternity like Micah 5:2 states. And one more thing (getting back to John 1?) please look at vs15, "John bore witness of Him, and cried out saying, "This was He of whom I said, "He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, FOR (or because) HE EXISTED BEFORE ME."

So on what basis or how did John the Baptist know Jesus Christ literally existed before him? Who told him or where did he get his information?

And btw, what were discussing has nothing to do with you quoting Revelation 19:11, Proverbs 8, or Colossians 1:15 etc. Were past that and in one of my other post to you I already addressed those verses.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

I call those who know God as the Trinity that He is, Christians.

LOL.Where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible? Oh wait, I know, Herby W Armstrong.

FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

RBA238 said:

I don't have to prove anything. This is a Christian forum and this is what Christians believe. Deal with it.

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

The title of this thread is, "Re: Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?" which is what my posts are all about. Show me any post I have made that makes any such claim believers in the Trinity are not Christian! I was a Trinitarian for 45 years. And what, may I ask does your post have to do with the subject of this thread?

Quasar92

RBA238 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

If you cannot prove it is "Heresy" then you are just blindly throwing out personal beleifs with no supporting evidence, right?

Show biblical evidence from scriptures, and i will certainly entertain the ideas you submit.
Go for it..

FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

And the answer is not to one who has already rejected it as the truth because of their indoctrination into the heretical teachings of a heretic.

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

You mean you can't prove the Trinity as many esteemed Trinitarian theologians admit. Would you like me to post a listings of their quotes? The Christian discussion boards are meant to discuss and try to prove the truths taught us from the Bible, which you have been trying to do, up until now, right?

Quasar92

FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

RBA238 said:

To knowingly deny any of the essentials of the Christian Faith is proof.

FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

That you are a disciple of HWA, is all anyone needs to know.

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

The doctrine of the Trinity was not accepted into church annals until early in the 5th century. It was man made and politically inspired. Your remark that it is among the Christian essentials of the Christian faith is more rationalization you cannot prove!

Review the following: Surprising admissions that the Trinity isn't in the Bible! in Bible Study Group Forum

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

bluto said:

It's ok quasar, fix your computer problems and then get back to me. Now, since Jesus Christ is the "Son of God/God the Son" even according to you then there was never a time when He did not exist. Since this is true then logic dictates He had to have existed before His incarnation. In other words, He existed as God Almighty. In the New Testament is when He incarnated as a fully contingent human being. He was not a fully contingent human being in the Old Testament.

And "contingent" means He was dependent on God His Father like the rest of us depend on God. As well I have already gone over John 1:1 which proves He was "WITH" God even before the beginning of time in eternity like Micah 5:2 states. And one more thing (getting back to John 1?) please look at vs15, "John bore witness of Him, and cried out saying, "This was He of whom I said, "He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, FOR (or because) HE EXISTED BEFORE ME."

So on what basis or how did John the Baptist know Jesus Christ literally existed before him? Who told him or where did he get his information?

And btw, what were discussing has nothing to do with you quoting Revelation 19:11, Proverbs 8, or Colossians 1:15 etc. Were past that and in one of my other post to you I already addressed those verses.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You have not replied to my post #336 yet, Bluto. In addition to making assumptions as to what I wrote about the origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus. I posted what the Scriptures say.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

I became a born again Christian in August of 1937, while I was in High School! I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I could no longer stand attempts to explain it to others. In the ensuing 32 years, I sought to learn how the Bible described God the origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus. My studies and research have been posted here on this thread, and I challenge anyone to find any part of it false. The doctrine of the Trinity has nothing whatever to do with a persons salvation nor the essentials of the Gospels as taught by Jesus, period!.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

bluto said:

The following quasar is what I said first and then your answer.

And regarding you statement, "God makes it clear in the OT He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself." Ok fine, then explain Micah 5:2, "But as for you , Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, FROM YOU ONE WILL GO FORTH FOR ME TO BE RULER IN ISRAEL; HIS GOINGS FORTH ARE FROM LONG AGO, FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY." Who's goings forth are from the days of eternity in this verse quasar? What if I told you that His goings forth have also been in the OT?

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]You also quoted Isaiah 43:10, but what about vs11? "I, even I, and the Lord, AND THERE IS NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME." If your going to follow strict rules of interpretation then you should take it to its logical conclusion. God says there is no Savior besides Him but yet Luke 2:11 says, "for today in the city of David there HAS BEEN BORN FOR YOU A SAVIOR, WHO IS CHIRST THE LORD."[/FONT]

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]"It is God, the Holy Spirit and Father, who brought forth the pre-incarnate person, who was the FIRSTBORN over all creation, who later became the human Jesus to be our Savior, as the Scriptures clearly document, previously addressed above. Knowing the end from the beginning, Indeed, the pre-incarnate person who later became the human Jesus lived from pasr eternity. But He did not ive from ALL PAST eternity as Almighty God, YHWH."
[/FONT]
No quasar, you did not address the specific verse I gave with was Micah 5:2. What does it mean that the goings forth of the Messiah/Jesus Christ reach back into eternity? Again, this is before His incarnation and yet you deny He did not preexist His incarnation? Are you aware that Micah 5:2 presupposes Isaiah 9:6 where Jesus Chrsit the Messiah is identified as the "Mighty God?" Did you not recognize from Isaiah 9:6 that a son will be given to us? Not created, but given. Are you also not aware that His name will also be "Eternal Father?" This means Jesus Christ is the Father of eternity or the architect of eternity.

This is perfect agreement with Revelation 3:14, "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write, "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this." That word "beginning" in the Greek is arche and we get our English word "architect" from that word. Jesus Christ before His incarnation is the architect/planner of all creation and existed before creation as God the Son.

This is also why John 1:3 says, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." Furthermore, regarding John 1:1 it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God." This is clearly Jesus Christ before His incarnation. If you are "WITH" someone, then you are other and distinct from that person.

And more proof that Jesus Christ preexisted His incarnation is at John 17:5 where it says, "And now, glorify Thou Me together WITH Thyself, Father WITH glory I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS." Finally, in the Old Testament Jesus appeared as God made visible as "The Angel of the Lord." Lastly, but not leastly you made this statement,

"Indeed, the pre-incarnate person who later became the human Jesus lived from pasr eternity. But He did not ive from ALL PAST eternity as Almighty God, YHWH." Please reconcile how the human Jesus lived from past eternity but He did not live from ALL PAST eternity as Almighty God, YHWH? In other words, where do you draw the line from "past eternity as opposed from ALL PAST eternity as Almighty God?" And PS: Notice I did not mention or even use the word trinity in what I posted. The issue is not the trintiy but who is Jesus Christ and did He appear before His incarnation.

IN GOD THE SON,
Bluto

I will answer this point by point, Bluto. But it may take a day or so before I can do so. So cool your heels, while I bring you the Scriptural truths.

Quasar92

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FreeNChrist · Sep 14, 2016

Quasar92 said:

"A great many of the ideas about God which are trotted out as novelties today, are simply the ones which real theologians tried centuries ago and rejected.”

- C S Lewis

Quasar92 · Sep 14, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Review the following for your edification:

Is the Trinity Biblical ? in Bible Study Group Forum

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Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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