Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

Ironically, after reading Romans chapter 9, I am not sure that we actually have free will either. The chapter goes as such,

"
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Essentially, the Lord can soften us to do his will or harden is to do the latter and express wrath/ judgment against us, and in the end it's all for His glory (which is fine) but do I actually have a say then in who I am or what the Lord has created me to be?

Have you read the story about Pharaoh and Moses where it tells us Pharaoh hardened his heart and then God made it permanent because Romans 9 doesn't mention that part.

Nor is there another example anywhere in the Bible about Potter and Clay because this is Paul's expression like when he said Speaking in Tongues is Angel Language and we know this is not true.

Paul gives a lot of personal opinion like he said in Timothy that he, being himself, doesn't allow women preaching. He didn't say God doesn't allow it he said that he doesn't allow it


So you need to understand sometimes you're getting Paul's opinion.

After all, these were Letters Paul wrote. Of course some of it will be his opinion only.

 

[rogerg]

I agree because if TULIP Doctrine existed in the Old Testament then Joshua wasted his time telling the children of Israel to (choose ye this day whom ye will serve because his household has chosen to serve God).

That was from the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant. No choice possible or permitted with the New Covenant. God did it all on the
behalf of those whom He places under it.

 

[rogerg]

Well at least you are up front about it.

Why wouldn't I be? It's the gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus did not come/preach to the living non-elect/unsaved after His resurrection. By the fact that He came to Thomas and gave faith and belief to him, meant that Thomas had been saved

Jesus had pronounced him clean through His word, Thomas Jn 15 2:2-4

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jn 13:9-11

9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.

10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

The word clean katharos means:
ethically

1. free from corrupt desire, from sin and guilt
2. free from every admixture of what is false, sincere genuine
3. blameless, innocent

 

[brightfame52]

That was from the Old Covenant, not the New Covenant. No choice possible or permitted with the New Covenant. God did it all on the
behalf of those whom He places under it.

Besides that Israel was already Gods redeemed chosen people, and that was by Gods choice alone. That matter in Josh 24 had nothing to do with salvation

 

[GWH]

See ya at the Judgment, our destinies will then be made known

Mine is made known by NT doctrine;
yours is doubtable because of dogma.

 

[GWH]

Nope, only since the 16th century.

Well, actually Augustine of Hippo taught tulipism circa 400 AD.,
which led Calvin astray in the 16th century.

 

[TruthDefender]

Okay dont say I didnt warn you

Warn me about this false doctrine (Calvinism)? Thank you!!

You must know that this was a man-made doctrine, started by John Calvin in the 16th century. Why would you follow this false doctrine, 1500 yrs after Christ?? Illogical!!

 

[TruthDefender]

Well, actually Augustine of Hippo taught tulipism circa 400 AD.,
which led Calvin astray in the 16th century.

For brightframe, and others who follow this:

Whatever! So 400 yrs after Christ, which should raise some BIG RED flags.

Get out, before it’s too late!!

 

[TruthDefender]

Have you read the story about Pharaoh and Moses where it tells us Pharaoh hardened his heart and then God made it permanent because Romans 9 doesn't mention that part.

Nor is there another example anywhere in the Bible about Potter and Clay because this is Paul's expression like when he said Speaking in Tongues is Angel Language and we know this is not true.

Paul gives a lot of personal opinion like he said in Timothy that he, being himself, doesn't allow women preaching. He didn't say God doesn't allow it he said that he doesn't allow it


So you need to understand sometimes you're getting Paul's opinion.

After all, these were Letters Paul wrote. Of course some of it will be his opinion only.

So you are affirming some things are correct, but not others? Wow!

The whole word of God (Bible) is God’s word. It’s God breathed, written through man, God inspired.
Man did NOT write it on his own, it’s not opinionated.

 

[HeIsHere]

For brightframe, and others who follow this:

Whatever! So 400 yrs after Christ, which should raise some BIG RED flags.

Get out, before it’s too late!!

Yes that would be awesome and also let this false system whither away.

.... but studies have shown this false doctrine often appeals to a certain "psychological" profile.... it is a challenge to UN-narcissisize

oneself, important to remember they do believe they are specially created by God for salvation.

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes that would be awesome and also let this false system whither away.

.... but studies have shown this false doctrine often appeals to a certain "psychological" profile.... it is a challenge to UN-narcissisize

oneself, important to remember they do believe they are specially created by God for salvation.

Aren’t all these false doctrines led by Satan’s army of darkness, meant to deflect from the TRUTH to lead people onto the wide road?

Keep the armor on!

 

[brightfame52]

Mine is made known by NT doctrine;
yours is doubtable because of dogma.

Its made known right now you despise the Gospel of Gods Grace, lets hope that changes

 

[brightfame52]

Warn me about this false doctrine (Calvinism)? Thank you!!

You must know that this was a man-made doctrine, started by John Calvin in the 16th century. Why would you follow this false doctrine, 1500 yrs after Christ?? Illogical!!

You been deceived to thinking that

 

[GWH]

For brightframe, and others who follow this:

Whatever! So 400 yrs after Christ, which should raise some BIG RED flags.

Get out, before it’s too late!!

Not whatever. It was by studying Augustine that I realized the Achilles heel of tulip is demeaning God's justness and love for all.
No matter how hard tulipists kick against that goad, they will not be able to justify their ignorance of that truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Not whatever. It was by studying Augustine that I realized the Achilles heel of tulip is demeaning God's justness and love for all.
No matter how hard tulipists kick against that goad, they will not be able to justify their ignorance of that truth.

Tulip is the Gospel

 

[lrs68]

So you are affirming some things are correct, but not others? Wow!

The whole word of God (Bible) is God’s word. It’s God breathed, written through man, God inspired.
Man did NOT write it on his own, it’s not opinionated.

Actually, I am not saying any such thing. I am however saying that some portions of the Letters are clearly part of addressing who it's sent to, who it's from, and some things how Paul believed it should be.

In other words, if the Letter was to Timothy there's portions of that Letter that is simply meant only for Timothy. We can't help the fact that the RCC led Council decided what was deemed to be Scripture and what wasn't considering that generally NONE OF US believe the RCC is Godly and a true representation of a real Christian Church.

 

[TruthDefender]

Not whatever. It was by studying Augustine that I realized the Achilles heel of tulip is demeaning God's justness and love for all.
No matter how hard tulipists kick against that goad, they will not be able to justify their ignorance of that truth.

This maybe rhetorical, and yes, but my point was, this doctrine started 100’s of yrs post Jesus’ preaching so it can’t be correct.

 

[TruthDefender]

Actually, I am not saying any such thing. I am however saying that some portions of the Letters are clearly part of addressing who it's sent to, who it's from, and some things how Paul believed it should be.

In other words, if the Letter was to Timothy there's portions of that Letter that is simply meant only for Timothy. We can't help the fact that the RCC led Council decided what was deemed to be Scripture and what wasn't considering that generally NONE OF US believe the RCC is Godly and a true representation of a real Christian Church.

Who is the RCC? And you’re missing my whole point. The whole of the Bible is His word, God inspired, not just some but ALL.

 

[lrs68]

Who is the RCC? And you’re missing my whole point. The whole of the Bible is His word, God inspired, not just some but ALL.

Roman Catholic Church

Do we know that when Paul was writing personal Letters to Timothy he was thinking one day this will be like the Tanakh but in New Testament format Version Bible?