Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
- Thread starter LifelongLearner
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It really all just comes down to, are they going to follow their own selves, or God? Because God could
have simply drawn a line in the sand and said, "Do not cross this line or you will die." The point is that
they essentially took God off the throne and enthroned themselves. That is what people do. That desire
comes from the natural world, which they were part of, having not eaten from the Tree of Life.
James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
have simply drawn a line in the sand and said, "Do not cross this line or you will die." The point is that
they essentially took God off the throne and enthroned themselves. That is what people do. That desire
comes from the natural world, which they were part of, having not eaten from the Tree of Life.
James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
-
1
- Show all
It really all just comes down to, are they going to follow their own selves, or God? Because God could
have simply drawn a line in the sand and said, "Do not cross this line or you will die." The point is that
they essentially took God off the throne and enthroned themselves. That is what people do. That desire
comes from the natural world, which they were part of, having not eaten from the Tree of Life.
James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
have simply drawn a line in the sand and said, "Do not cross this line or you will die." The point is that
they essentially took God off the throne and enthroned themselves. That is what people do. That desire
comes from the natural world, which they were part of, having not eaten from the Tree of Life.
James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
The scriptures in your lovely panel mean a lot to me for sure, they're a great wake-up call for sure. Hope you're ok Magenta, you seem a little down today, hugs from me if you are.
-
1
- Show all
Ah, thank you, I am fine! I just got back from my hunting and gathering coffee outing (LOL), and purchased a few extra things, since I will be seeing my daughter later today... I say fine, though I did overdose on cough meds two weeks ago, and am still experiencing some of the negative side effects of that, mostly at night when in the process of laying down in bed and then rolling over, which sets off symptoms of vertigo. My daughter did once swap out the camera on her phone for another better one, and it took her all day to figure that out following guides and other people's suggestions online, and I know I do not have the patience for that sort of thing, so certainly sympathize with whatever frustrations and confusion you may now be experiencing after what you have been attempting to do...
-
1
- Show all
I often give thought to the greatest expression of love that any generation will ever hear "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" The words of Jesus, for those who crucified Him. That's the power that is with us. His love and authority will overcome all things.
Our God is the only One who can openly tell His enemies how they will meet their end from the very beginning, because He is the only One who is self-reliant. All power and authority being His to wield.
Contrast that with the devil, whose strength only lies in his concealment. He never appears in any place, in his own name, but is always covered by other names, disseminating his rebellion through the world's ideology which is set against the Gospel.
Sounds like you knew where to look, before you knew Who you were looking for. I say that because the natural world remains truer to the sum and substance of the Creator, than the greater part of mankind in our generation.
Faith requires resolute trust. Most people are afraid to trust again when they've been betrayed so many times over.
It can also be tough for anyone to relinquish the illusion of being in charge of their own destiny, especially when the sun has been shining and the tree's mostly green.
Our God is the only One who can openly tell His enemies how they will meet their end from the very beginning, because He is the only One who is self-reliant. All power and authority being His to wield.
Contrast that with the devil, whose strength only lies in his concealment. He never appears in any place, in his own name, but is always covered by other names, disseminating his rebellion through the world's ideology which is set against the Gospel.
Sounds like you knew where to look, before you knew Who you were looking for. I say that because the natural world remains truer to the sum and substance of the Creator, than the greater part of mankind in our generation.
Faith requires resolute trust. Most people are afraid to trust again when they've been betrayed so many times over.
It can also be tough for anyone to relinquish the illusion of being in charge of their own destiny, especially when the sun has been shining and the tree's mostly green.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Blessings and hugs sweetest friend, my brain is so tired and frustrated, even mega strong coffee isn't working. Also, my little Princess wants her treats and me to play with her, probably do me some real good too.
Glad to say it's been an interesting and rather lovely commenting session, really enjoyed it and learned a lot.
Glad to say it's been an interesting and rather lovely commenting session, really enjoyed it and learned a lot.
-
1
- Show all
The first thing we should notice when reading this passage of Scripture is that at no time is Eve ever nervous, felt the need to be cautious, alerted about this SERPENT just showing up and began talking to her.
It almost makes me think Eve has seen the SERPENT before or maybe even knows the SERPENT.
As someone raised in a Jewish Christian environment I was taught the Hebrew Torah and Tanakh. We even were taught there's 22 Letters in the Hebrew Alphabet and each letter also is a Mathematical numeral value.
The Hebrew word for SERPENT has 3 possible meanings.
One of those meanings is the same word for angelic light bearer.
Angelic Light Bearer!
Now, let's say the SERPENT talking to Eve was an Angel of Light, or Eve would have believed the Angel was of God.
Is there proof that Satan/Lucifer was an Angel of Light?
We know in Isaiah that Lucifer is called MORNING STAR.
We know in Ezekiel that Satan was addressed as the Cherubim IN THE GARDEN and made perfectly and full of Light.
We even know that the Apostle Paul warned us that Satan could come to us as an ANGEL of LIGHT.
So let's say the SERPENT was as the Hebrew word meaning ANGEL of LIGHT.
Let's say as Ezekiel wrote it was the Cherubim from the Garden.
Eve would have known this ANGEL.
Probably had many interactions with the ANGEL.
Most likely would have never expected the ANGEL to deceive her.
I believe when Eve "saw that the fruit was good to eat" that she never thought she was disobeying God until she ate and then gave to Adam.
I believe she made a choice based upon free will at that moment.
Her only mistake was trusting the ANGEL of LIGHT, something she would have seen as a CHERUBIM in the Garden.
But I must confess, I trust the Hebrew version because the English version has people believing Eve spoke to a snake
Your photo suggests you're younger than my children, really wish they had some of your spiritual maturity. They aren't the people i brought up, think the world had a nervous breakdown March '20 it won't recover from.
Being old i'm much less affected than young people, the world now seems a very angry, frightened place to me. Glad to now know there really is a big guy upstairs, who'll sort the whole mess out when the time is right.
Being old i'm much less affected than young people, the world now seems a very angry, frightened place to me. Glad to now know there really is a big guy upstairs, who'll sort the whole mess out when the time is right.
-
1
- Show all
I was born in the summer of '84. Looking young for my age seemed like a curse when I hit 18 and wanted to legally engage in certain activities, but I certainly count it a blessing these days!
Hope we'll soon be sharing conversations like we have today, much appreciated. Must really turn off the router now, my little cat is losing patience. Cheers and all that's good Kainos.
-
1
- Show all
if it's 'eat this, it won't kill you' then it's deception that he doesn't listen to.
if it's 'eat this, don't ask what it is, no further questions' then it's deception too, that he doesn't fall for
if it's 'eat this, die with me' then yes it's listening, and yes it isn't deception, and in that case her eyes are already open, because she knows she has been deceived and is dying.
because we know he isn't deceived, and we know that some conversation between them took place between her eating and her giving some to him, we know that she was not duplictious in whatever she said to him - - so we also know she understood she had been deceived before she spoke to him, or else she would have been speaking under false pretenses, and 'harkening unto her' implies he believed whatever it was she communicated to him.
if it's 'eat this, don't ask what it is, no further questions' then it's deception too, that he doesn't fall for
if it's 'eat this, die with me' then yes it's listening, and yes it isn't deception, and in that case her eyes are already open, because she knows she has been deceived and is dying.
because we know he isn't deceived, and we know that some conversation between them took place between her eating and her giving some to him, we know that she was not duplictious in whatever she said to him - - so we also know she understood she had been deceived before she spoke to him, or else she would have been speaking under false pretenses, and 'harkening unto her' implies he believed whatever it was she communicated to him.
-
1
- Show all
I do not agree that hearkening means he believed whatever she said. "Here, have some of this with me," contains no deception, either. It is just a simple invitation, and he joins her in eating, against knowing the outcome. One might think he would have had to have been told at least part of the deception, if not all, else why say, he was not deceived? But it could just as well be that he was not deceived, to see Eve eat and not be dying in front of his eyes as one other said. Because he knew that the outcome was going to be death, in any eventuality. It is all supposition beyond what we are explicitly told. Even if he was told some or all of the deception, agreeing to eat with her could be the sum of his hearkening unto his wife. It certainly does not mean he believed what she said if she related any of the deception to him.
-
1
- Show all
So which one of the Pharisee-made forgeries is it? Bonus points if it's the one that the pagan mormons still believe is valid as it's the very latest of the Pharisee-made forgeries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_haYashar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_haYashar