Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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You simply want to convolute the issue. If faith results from the activity of men, salvation is a matter of choice; thus, it is in the hands of men to decide. If faith results from the activity of God, it is God Himself who does the choosing. I find the latter taught in scripture and find it equally consistent with what scripture teaches concerning God. Ultimately, it's not a salvific issue, as the only thing that matters is whether one truly has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing the outworking of salvation is not necessary for belief.
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Really? Call you Satan? Where is this post???
Perhaps Avery ought to know that people frequently lie about what others have said.
People will misrepresent what you believe and then claim NOBODY is misrepresenting what you believe.
Even when they do not even know what you believe! They just make it up as they go along.
Perhaps Avery ought to know that people frequently lie about what others have said.
People will misrepresent what you believe and then claim NOBODY is misrepresenting what you believe.
Even when they do not even know what you believe! They just make it up as they go along.
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for all our disagreements I know your a believer like I am in Jesus just wanted to make that clear to you , I don’t doubt your relationship with jesus at all just some of the things in the doctrine you don’t seem to want to accept I’m puzzled by the why part
To me it’s just that you aren’t connecting what he already did and said to all that stuff about working in you and through you and all that your saying there or the doctrine he taught believers to believe . You seem to think there’s some hidden thing he does and needs to do after he died and rose and promised salvation to all who believe but I’m really not sure sometimes it’s hard to pin you down to an answer
he works according to and only according to what he said is the thing he spoke and created all that exists just spoke it forth from nothing his word shaped it all and declared it
Later on he stopped the sun ( rotation of the earth ) in the sky by his word and a man doing what he told him to do to give his people deliverance from a great battle but he just spoke it forth … later he told Moses to build a serpent on a pole and hold it up he just spoke it then Moses did it and the promise that was attatched to it was fulfilled and everyone bitten by a deadly serpent lives just because God had spoken this salvation forth to them by his word and then a man o eyes him and the people heard what he said and responded and looked to the brazen serpent God declared would save them …
the power god has always expressed upon earth even from its creation and even into its destruction some day is all spoken forth in his word to mankind even from the beginning before mankind was
“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. …And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.”
Genesis 1:3, 6, 9 KJV
and in his interactions with man the same his word flows through us and there is life and power in it look at the operation of faith brother
his same powerful and creative word spoken to a normal man giving the man an instruction and a promised result
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
This word of power tbat shut out the sunlight , as it was spoken , in its form requires Moses to lift his hand up in order for the word to come to pass its on the way he said it to Moses inviting moses to act upon it from faith and trust the result promises by gods powerful creative word
That’s how the gospel is brother something like this is the same as when he told Moses “lift your hand up towards the heavens that there may be darkness “
This is the same powerful and creative word able to “call things that are not , as though they were “
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Disclaimer : This is not me starting a baptism discussion or argument with anyone though
Im just saying the word of God spoken to man invites the man to believe the promise attatched to it the true requirement is to listen to what he actually said and believe it because then we will act upon it believing like something like this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
“Lift up your hand Moses that there may be …..
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.””
Again no matter the subject the value of what he said is what he said things mean
Repent and get baptized in Jesus name … and I will remit your sins
preach the gospel to everyone ……whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved
instruction and promise from God because he’s able to do what he said he will do invites belief and action if we believe him it’s not always easy to believe things the Bible says sometimes we have to purposely and willfully stop our mind and accept what he’s saying that we didn’t already know and believe of that makes sense there’s choice in belief but it only comes because we begin listening to the choice Jesus is giving us we have to hear his word
If we won’t accept it it’s not because we aren’t able but because we’re still willful and don’t really want to hear it right now
To me it’s just that you aren’t connecting what he already did and said to all that stuff about working in you and through you and all that your saying there or the doctrine he taught believers to believe . You seem to think there’s some hidden thing he does and needs to do after he died and rose and promised salvation to all who believe but I’m really not sure sometimes it’s hard to pin you down to an answer
he works according to and only according to what he said is the thing he spoke and created all that exists just spoke it forth from nothing his word shaped it all and declared it
Later on he stopped the sun ( rotation of the earth ) in the sky by his word and a man doing what he told him to do to give his people deliverance from a great battle but he just spoke it forth … later he told Moses to build a serpent on a pole and hold it up he just spoke it then Moses did it and the promise that was attatched to it was fulfilled and everyone bitten by a deadly serpent lives just because God had spoken this salvation forth to them by his word and then a man o eyes him and the people heard what he said and responded and looked to the brazen serpent God declared would save them …
the power god has always expressed upon earth even from its creation and even into its destruction some day is all spoken forth in his word to mankind even from the beginning before mankind was
“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. …And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.”
Genesis 1:3, 6, 9 KJV
and in his interactions with man the same his word flows through us and there is life and power in it look at the operation of faith brother
his same powerful and creative word spoken to a normal man giving the man an instruction and a promised result
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
Exodus 10:21-22 KJV
This word of power tbat shut out the sunlight , as it was spoken , in its form requires Moses to lift his hand up in order for the word to come to pass its on the way he said it to Moses inviting moses to act upon it from faith and trust the result promises by gods powerful creative word
That’s how the gospel is brother something like this is the same as when he told Moses “lift your hand up towards the heavens that there may be darkness “
This is the same powerful and creative word able to “call things that are not , as though they were “
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
Disclaimer : This is not me starting a baptism discussion or argument with anyone though
Im just saying the word of God spoken to man invites the man to believe the promise attatched to it the true requirement is to listen to what he actually said and believe it because then we will act upon it believing like something like this
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
Acts 2:38-39 KJV
“Lift up your hand Moses that there may be …..
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.””
Again no matter the subject the value of what he said is what he said things mean
Repent and get baptized in Jesus name … and I will remit your sins
preach the gospel to everyone ……whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved
instruction and promise from God because he’s able to do what he said he will do invites belief and action if we believe him it’s not always easy to believe things the Bible says sometimes we have to purposely and willfully stop our mind and accept what he’s saying that we didn’t already know and believe of that makes sense there’s choice in belief but it only comes because we begin listening to the choice Jesus is giving us we have to hear his word
If we won’t accept it it’s not because we aren’t able but because we’re still willful and don’t really want to hear it right now
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Chapter and verse? Please note we do not accept being able to make choices as having a will that is free.
In fact some are specifically said to be taken captive to the will of the devil.
Of course these and many similar verses are routinely contradicted and denied by the free will crowd.
They screech about God's sovereignty, too, like it is a dirty word.
In fact they some of these FWers claim God is unfair and that if He acts unilaterally
it makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
Yes. Buckle up.
In fact some are specifically said to be taken captive to the will of the devil.
Of course these and many similar verses are routinely contradicted and denied by the free will crowd.
They screech about God's sovereignty, too, like it is a dirty word.
In fact they some of these FWers claim God is unfair and that if He acts unilaterally
it makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
Yes. Buckle up.
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... and chose us
... and had mercy on us
... and gave us a new heart
All of this took place long ago.
There are many verses in scripture which speak of natural man being unable to do any good. The only way to understand this is to accept total depravity. Man may believe that there is a God, but his desire is not for God – but for earthly things. Only a heart transplant can rectify this situation!
... and had mercy on us
... and gave us a new heart
All of this took place long ago.
There are many verses in scripture which speak of natural man being unable to do any good. The only way to understand this is to accept total depravity. Man may believe that there is a God, but his desire is not for God – but for earthly things. Only a heart transplant can rectify this situation!
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Back to the beginning of the circle hih he has to secretly choose to enable you to hear about Jesus dying for your sins … then has to make you believe what he made you able to hear but not the other sinners they aren’t able to believe and be saved because of course he only offers salvation to certain chosen people that he secretly apart from the gospel enables ……because they are the chosen ones
this place is hard to get anywhere lol
this place is hard to get anywhere lol
To add to my earlier statements I will say that man’s free will given by God is not a license to sin. Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:14 that the love of Christ compels or constrains him. We exercise our Fred will to choose Jesus and to honor him by choosing by our free will to serve him.
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Free will is not mentioned in Genesis. Or anywhere in the New Testament, or many of the old testament books anywhere. In fact, the way it is spoken of in the context of the natural man choosing by himself ==and some will even say with no help required from God at all (blasphemy as far as I am concerned)== to believe, while he is inherently hostile in his mind toward God and opposed to the spiritual things of God and not even able to receive or comprehend them, blinded, as a lover of darkness, slave to sin, refusing to come into the light, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness etc etc? Yeah. Those things are mentioned in abundance from the beginning of the Bible... after the fall of man he is no longer good but incurably wicked, and his heart needs replacing. But what the Bible actually does say is routinely thrown over by the free will crowd for things the Bible nowhere articulates. Jesus sets us free. He was purposed from before the foundation of the world. Regarding Adam and Eve, do you believe they were as much in need of being born again as we are?
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Your last statement is at the heart of our disagreement. Jesus through His life and death did provide the means for mankind to be reconciled to God. His perfect and sinless life is our imputed righteousness, and His substitutionary death has satiated God's wrath against us. That said, none of that has done anything to alter the condition of the natural fallen man. Many have shared scripture concerning this, but you simply disregard what scripture has said concerning him. You simply default to the position that man is unfettered in his ability to comprehend the things of God and choose. I don't believe that this is the testimony of scripture.
I do appreciate your kind words, and reciprocate them. I view you as a friend and brother in Christ.
I do appreciate your kind words, and reciprocate them. I view you as a friend and brother in Christ.
More ignorance, and a false appeal to emotionalism. It's not my job to make decisions that are God's alone to determine. My responsibility is to raise my children in the fear and the admonition of the Lord. The increase is always left to God. I'm not called to be a good and successful servant; only a good and faithful servant. My children, as is all humanity, are in the hands of God.
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@Cameron143 IS one of the sharpest tools in the shed. And can walk the fence like no other calvie I have conversed with. Smart guy!
And It really should raise red flags that none of us can define his position.
It's not on us, it's on him.
And It really should raise red flags that none of us can define his position.
It's not on us, it's on him.
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