Can you be baptized by an unbelieving person?
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I think one needs to be careful with answers here.
I see quite often in this thread the implication that if you are baptized by someone who is not a believer, that makes the baptism invalid. I wholeheartedly agree that one should seek to be baptized by a believer, and as was pointed out: in Scripture all baptisms were of course done by believers.
But as a pastor, what should I do if someone comes to my church from another state (or even country). Now let's assume he was baptized in that church. Do I then need to go back and research and find out if that person who baptized him was a Christian? And what if that person did some heinous sin(s) like adultery/murder in the ensuing years! Does that mean he was never a Christian in the first place? Soon I would be rebaptizing everyone who comes to my church just to "be sure" that their first baptism was valid. What a mess!
I see no Scripture that says a baptism is invalid if it was done by someone who was not a believer.
I see quite often in this thread the implication that if you are baptized by someone who is not a believer, that makes the baptism invalid. I wholeheartedly agree that one should seek to be baptized by a believer, and as was pointed out: in Scripture all baptisms were of course done by believers.
But as a pastor, what should I do if someone comes to my church from another state (or even country). Now let's assume he was baptized in that church. Do I then need to go back and research and find out if that person who baptized him was a Christian? And what if that person did some heinous sin(s) like adultery/murder in the ensuing years! Does that mean he was never a Christian in the first place? Soon I would be rebaptizing everyone who comes to my church just to "be sure" that their first baptism was valid. What a mess!
I see no Scripture that says a baptism is invalid if it was done by someone who was not a believer.
The context of "born of water" refers to natural or physical birth.
People are baptized all th time by people who have religion but possibly no salvation. Baptism is the person's individual response to the gospel. If the person being baptized has confessed their sins and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, they are saved, and that baptism is valid.
People are baptized all th time by people who have religion but possibly no salvation. Baptism is the person's individual response to the gospel. If the person being baptized has confessed their sins and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, burial, and resurrection, they are saved, and that baptism is valid.
e way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
Acts 11:16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Acts 19:4
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
According to most Christian denominations, "spirit baptism" (being filled with the Holy Spirit) is considered the act that saves a person, while water baptism is a symbolic outward expression of that inner transformation, meaning that "spirit baptism" is the one that saves; water baptism alone does not grant salvation.
Water baptism is a visual representation of the invisible Spirit baptism. All those who are saved have experienced Spirit baptism, but if one seeks to be a disciple, he will also obey Christ and publicly be baptized in water. Water baptism, like all the acts and works of a disciple, has no power to save from Hell.
Does a person have to be water baptized to be saved?
There is no example in Scripture of a believer being sprinkled, or of having water poured on them to signify they had believed and received Christ. In conclusion, water baptism is not essential for salvation. It is by God's grace alone through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from works.
What is the correct way to baptize according to the Bible?
“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Romans 6:3–5). Baptism by immersion by a person having the proper authority is the only acceptable way of being baptized.
who is the only one with the proper authority?
Jesus the risen, thank you, Father
Acts 11:16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Acts 19:4
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
According to most Christian denominations, "spirit baptism" (being filled with the Holy Spirit) is considered the act that saves a person, while water baptism is a symbolic outward expression of that inner transformation, meaning that "spirit baptism" is the one that saves; water baptism alone does not grant salvation.
Water baptism is a visual representation of the invisible Spirit baptism. All those who are saved have experienced Spirit baptism, but if one seeks to be a disciple, he will also obey Christ and publicly be baptized in water. Water baptism, like all the acts and works of a disciple, has no power to save from Hell.
Does a person have to be water baptized to be saved?
There is no example in Scripture of a believer being sprinkled, or of having water poured on them to signify they had believed and received Christ. In conclusion, water baptism is not essential for salvation. It is by God's grace alone through faith alone, in Christ alone, apart from works.
What is the correct way to baptize according to the Bible?
“For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Romans 6:3–5). Baptism by immersion by a person having the proper authority is the only acceptable way of being baptized.
who is the only one with the proper authority?
Jesus the risen, thank you, Father
Precious friend, @Kainos, appreciate the great questions and attitude of a humble
and kind discussion of This Important Matter. With The Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided, we find the following understanding:
Short/brief answer:
BaptismS Scriptural Summary!:
LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:
Your q: "why did the Spirit give the order to Philip to join the Ethiopian's chariot,
for the purpose of preaching the good news of Jesus, and carrying out water baptism?"
a: Because it was part of this Program of God:
Prophecy/Covenants/Law { for earthly Israel }:
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 AV)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 AV)
Your other Great Question: "Also, when Peter visited Cornelius, the Holy Spirit
fell on all those who heard the word, causing Peter to declare:
Acts 10:47-48
“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the
Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name
of Jesus Christ.""
Yes, in God's Prophetic Program, relevant to Peter's commission (as shown above), but
During God's Transition Over to "Grace" (below), God Started Changes, and Gave Paul A
New And Different Commission (2 Corinthians 5:17-6:2 AV), with water diminishing...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
...In God's Other Program of Mystery And GRACE! For The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ!!:
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concluding Question: God's ONE Baptism, Under Grace Today? = ONE?
Or, as some teach, we need to "add" water baptism [ from God's Other Prophetic Program ]
thus making Two baptisms Under Mystery/Grace = bad Math (which God doesn't have),
Correct, Precious friend?
Longer/Expounded answer is here:
ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism
Again, may I humbly say I appreciate your prayerful and Careful attention in
This Most Important Spiritual Matter Of The Almighty God, and:
Please, precious friend, Be Very Richly Encouraged
And Edified In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
Amen.
and kind discussion of This Important Matter. With The Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided, we find the following understanding:
Short/brief answer:
BaptismS Scriptural Summary!:
LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:
Your q: "why did the Spirit give the order to Philip to join the Ethiopian's chariot,
for the purpose of preaching the good news of Jesus, and carrying out water baptism?"
a: Because it was part of this Program of God:
Prophecy/Covenants/Law { for earthly Israel }:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The two "Main" (of 12) baptismS =A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 AV)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 AV)
Your other Great Question: "Also, when Peter visited Cornelius, the Holy Spirit
fell on all those who heard the word, causing Peter to declare:
Acts 10:47-48
“Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the
Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name
of Jesus Christ.""
Yes, in God's Prophetic Program, relevant to Peter's commission (as shown above), but
During God's Transition Over to "Grace" (below), God Started Changes, and Gave Paul A
New And Different Commission (2 Corinthians 5:17-6:2 AV), with water diminishing...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):
...In God's Other Program of Mystery And GRACE! For The [ Heavenly ] Body Of Christ!!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concluding Question: God's ONE Baptism, Under Grace Today? = ONE?
Or, as some teach, we need to "add" water baptism [ from God's Other Prophetic Program ]
thus making Two baptisms Under Mystery/Grace = bad Math (which God doesn't have),
Correct, Precious friend?
Longer/Expounded answer is here:
ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism
Again, may I humbly say I appreciate your prayerful and Careful attention in
This Most Important Spiritual Matter Of The Almighty God, and:
Please, precious friend, Be Very Richly Encouraged
And Edified In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!
Amen.
You must understand what Jesus meant when he said, "you must be born of water and the Spirit." What this refers to is that you have to be born of woman through the water bag and also of the Spirit, as you mature and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. You all were born from above when your soul was placed in the womb of woman and you developed into a living being. It was God's plan that all the souls that he created was to pass through this earth age to make up their minds whether they would love God or follow Satan.
Refusing to be born of woman is what caused Noah's flood. The sons of God (angels) left their heavenly habitation and rather than being born of woman, came down and seduced the daughters of Adam as written in Gen 6 and they bare children to them that grew into giants. This mixing of body types, spiritual and flesh, was against God's plan and was an attempt to pollute the seed line that would lead to the birth of Christ. God therefore destroyed them all in Noah's flood. These fallen angels are the ones that are written about in the book of Jude that are reserved in everlasting chains waiting for the day of judgement.
As far as water baptism, Christ gave us the example being baptized by John. Baptism is when you realize that Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins and that God rose him from the dead. Through Jesus' sacrifice we are forgiven our sins and are reunited to God. Being baptized is symbolic of dying with Christ, in the water, and being raised to life by God when you come out of the water, clean and forgiven. I hope this helps.
Refusing to be born of woman is what caused Noah's flood. The sons of God (angels) left their heavenly habitation and rather than being born of woman, came down and seduced the daughters of Adam as written in Gen 6 and they bare children to them that grew into giants. This mixing of body types, spiritual and flesh, was against God's plan and was an attempt to pollute the seed line that would lead to the birth of Christ. God therefore destroyed them all in Noah's flood. These fallen angels are the ones that are written about in the book of Jude that are reserved in everlasting chains waiting for the day of judgement.
As far as water baptism, Christ gave us the example being baptized by John. Baptism is when you realize that Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins and that God rose him from the dead. Through Jesus' sacrifice we are forgiven our sins and are reunited to God. Being baptized is symbolic of dying with Christ, in the water, and being raised to life by God when you come out of the water, clean and forgiven. I hope this helps.
It's known that Paul baptised Crispus and Gaius (1 Corinthians 1:14) and the household of Stephanas (1 Corinthians 1:16) The jailer and his household were was also baptised with Paul present (Acts 16:33). Whether Paul or Silas baptised them is incidental, but it's telling that Paul didn't oppose their baptism.
When Paul said he was not sent to baptise, he was addressing those already baptised in the Corinthian church. He followed up his remark by naming some of the believers in Corinth whom he had baptised. In the context of what Paul said, it's paradoxical to believe that he was never sent to baptise anyone as part of his extensive ministry.
I would argue that Paul's intention was to cut down any attempt to take the glory away from God in Christ. “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ (1 Corinthians 1:12) To curtail the performative, “who baptised me” aspect of baptism, rather than the act of being baptised.
It goes without saying, the gift of the Holy Spirit is obviously the baptism. But the water remains synonymous with our new-found belief in the Son of God. It might be of little practical effect, but still represents an important change.
Same to you. I appreciate your patience in replying to the sorta questioning you must have fielded many times over.
When Paul said he was not sent to baptise, he was addressing those already baptised in the Corinthian church. He followed up his remark by naming some of the believers in Corinth whom he had baptised. In the context of what Paul said, it's paradoxical to believe that he was never sent to baptise anyone as part of his extensive ministry.
I would argue that Paul's intention was to cut down any attempt to take the glory away from God in Christ. “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ (1 Corinthians 1:12) To curtail the performative, “who baptised me” aspect of baptism, rather than the act of being baptised.
It goes without saying, the gift of the Holy Spirit is obviously the baptism. But the water remains synonymous with our new-found belief in the Son of God. It might be of little practical effect, but still represents an important change.
Same to you. I appreciate your patience in replying to the sorta questioning you must have fielded many times over.
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I mean the real problem is what's an unbeliever doing with tasks he wouldn't know anything about, since he's an unbeliever?
That's the problem.
The problem is not when an unbeliever walks into a church, or a chat room. The problem is when the unbeliever is trying to run the church.
Baffling. But i'm sure we're missing a lot in translation or what people mean.
That's the problem.
The problem is not when an unbeliever walks into a church, or a chat room. The problem is when the unbeliever is trying to run the church.
Baffling. But i'm sure we're missing a lot in translation or what people mean.
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1
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I mean the real problem is what's an unbeliever doing with tasks he wouldn't know anything about, since he's an unbeliever?
That's the problem.
The problem is not when an unbeliever walks into a church, or a chat room. The problem is when the unbeliever is trying to run the church.
Baffling. But i'm sure we're missing a lot in translation or what people mean.
That's the problem.
The problem is not when an unbeliever walks into a church, or a chat room. The problem is when the unbeliever is trying to run the church.
Baffling. But i'm sure we're missing a lot in translation or what people mean.
