Cessationism
- Thread starter JairCrawford
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I have a question for you. Are you willing to read William J. Jackson's book, Thyagaraga; Life and Lyrics? Its 418 pages of Hindu miracles. It is full of miracles of healings and wonders that simply defy natural explanation. He has observed such himself.
You can get one on Amazon.com for only $29.95 paperback.
Yes, but I believe the gifts aren't still in operation apart from the false doctrines that have come along with the use of spiritual gifts and miracles. There's no baby in the bath water to throw out as far as I can see. I don't think speaking in tounges or laying on of hands marks someone as a teacher of a false Gospel, but I think that where the practice came from.
I will ask them if they really, really, really want to accept a healing from Jesus. Maybe that's why the healers never respond to my request, they also have the gift of knowing who does not deserve a healing.
1). Personally, I think that is the best quote of the whole thread...hands down. Thanks, Roger.
2). At least in the few most recent posts I've read, it seemed the childishness finally died down. (That's nice)
3). I felt there were some really good nuggets on both sides of the debate...as long as a person was able to look past the hateful nastiness they were covered in. <-- I don't think that was so easy.
4). I'm hoping we can revisit some of those ideas (not the methods of presentation).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I, personally, have been healed instantly on the spot when prayed for many times, and have witnessed powerful healing upon my friends that could only come from Jesus. When it happens to you, you just don't doubt that the healing touch of Jesus is still working today. With what I've been through this year, I am a miracle walking because of people who prayed for me with strong faith. My doctors are even amazed.
A close friend was prayed for her vision which was so bad she needed thick glasses. Instantly, her vision was restored, and glasses were no longer needed. I have prayed for someone's knee which was immediately free from pain while walking.
Jesus said "As you believe, it shall be done to you".
What you believe is everything. I'm only glad that He has given me the faith to believe that all things are possible, even for today.
Why would Jesus not want to see people healed? And since we are now His body, it only makes sense that some are given the ministry (gift) of healing. But even those who do always wait upon the Lord for direction and only minister in prayer when guided by the Holy Spirit. Some people who want healing really need to deal with other issues in their lives such as anger, fears, etc. which affects their health. Along with the gift of healings comes wisdom and discernment.
A close friend was prayed for her vision which was so bad she needed thick glasses. Instantly, her vision was restored, and glasses were no longer needed. I have prayed for someone's knee which was immediately free from pain while walking.
Jesus said "As you believe, it shall be done to you".
What you believe is everything. I'm only glad that He has given me the faith to believe that all things are possible, even for today.
Why would Jesus not want to see people healed? And since we are now His body, it only makes sense that some are given the ministry (gift) of healing. But even those who do always wait upon the Lord for direction and only minister in prayer when guided by the Holy Spirit. Some people who want healing really need to deal with other issues in their lives such as anger, fears, etc. which affects their health. Along with the gift of healings comes wisdom and discernment.
This is an honest question rather than an argumentative one... What is meant by the term "Sign gifts?
My understanding of "Spiritual" gifts is pretty much "any knowledge, miracle, healing, knowledge, tongue(language), prophecy, teaching, etc given directly by God through his spirit..(as opposed to learned by natural methods). But I'd only heard of 'sign gifts' since coming to this particular site.
My understanding of "Spiritual" gifts is pretty much "any knowledge, miracle, healing, knowledge, tongue(language), prophecy, teaching, etc given directly by God through his spirit..(as opposed to learned by natural methods). But I'd only heard of 'sign gifts' since coming to this particular site.
And these signs shall follow them that believe...
Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Not to be sought after but observed.
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
It is natural man that must walks after the natural course of this corrupted generation of Adam.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Christians walk by the unseen eternal faith of Christ which alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures.Not after the temporal things seen of this world lie above. 1John 2:16
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
They were not signs that were sought after.They were signs to temporally observe because the time of reformation had come Just as the signs were when the Jews were led out of Egypt . They did not continue on as if they were to be sought after.
God does not heal after human hands as a will neither does he bring new revelation by the will of man.
Its an evil generation (natural unconverted man) that seeks after a sign . Christians walk by faith .They are not those who require a sign before they will believe . (No need to be faithless like Thomas )
You will not find the term sign and gift in the same context. Spiritual gifts have no form . Its why they are called spiritual gifts they are performed by the unseen hand of God .
I am one that can verify that He still speaks to us personally for which I say to you, tongues without interpretation is not one of them since you need an interpreter to know what that tongue has said to you or know that the Holy Spirit was praying for you ( confusing switching mode, isn't it, even for private use which God is not the author of ).
If God can speak to us without tongues for private use, and it is clear and understood, then you should test that tongue to discern with Him if it be of God or if it be of the world's supernatural tongue which is vain & profane babbling nonsense since God wants us to abstain from all appearances of evil in proving everything, including tongues.
When God speaks to us personally, He will not do it with nonsense. Moses certainly did not need an interpreter when he was on Mt. Sinai, receiving the Ten Commandments.
Some of the humor of all this is us deciding how solemnly religious and proper God wants to appear in what He does. When, because of God working through him, Jesus was laughed at, ridiculed, called a drunkard (as were the Apostles also called) and accused of doing what He did because He was in league with the Devil... and finally murdered for being a Blasphemer according to men's eyes.
Yes, it certainly appears God is very worried about how He will look in front of doubting, critical, judging men.
Yes, it certainly appears God is very worried about how He will look in front of doubting, critical, judging men.
Jesus was accused of being with the drunkard and not a drunkard Himself.
His disciples were accused by mockers because they were speaking in foreign languages as I am sure some of the natives did not understand it.
They were not falling down as drunkards do nor as some modern tongue speakers do today.
Proving all things and abstaining from all appearances of evil would make God a hypocrite if He mimic a work of the flesh called drunkenness as if that is a manifestation of the Spirit or a fruit of the Spirit when a house divided cannot stand.
Temperance which is self control is a fruit of the Spirit whereas joy can never be referred to the work of the flesh as drunkenness as some "holy rollers" will attest to. Not all Pentecostals are caught up in that extra phenomenon, but they certainly lay the groundwork for believers to continue past the second blessing or infilling and receive other infilling by other signs of confusion which God is not the author of; and neither is tongues without interpretation for private use is God the author of.
For tongue speakers to draw that line of discernment, they have to renounce the tongue they had gained by that second blessing. You do not need it and God certainly does not need it when talking to any believer personally, obviously. ( which all things are to be tested by the scripture, of course )
Its no new revelations called private revelations. The word of God is not dead .The still small voice comes through the living one abiding ones, the same ones he reminds us of. (and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.).
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Why go above that which is written? What kind of hope is there in receiving the plagues written in the perfect word by taking away or adding ? Where isthe joy in that?
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Are there laws missing by which we could know him more intimately?
Matt 11:19.... King James Bible
"The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners..."
Be careful trying to disprove Scriptures you may not know.
You are ignoring that is what they say, and not what He actually did.
Be careful how you apply His words. Jesus was without sin and being a drunkard is a sin.