Cheap Grace Or Free Grace?

[eternally-gratefull]

I will again refer you to VERSE 12, as it says "builds on the foundation."

We can not build on the foundation of Christ with works of the flesh, only things done of the faith can build on that foundation. Works of the flesh are enmity to God and His ways and thus has no bearing placed here. This can only be referred to as faithful servitude.

so where does the wood hey and stubble come into the equation> People will ghet this by doing works of faith?

And where does the "he himself will be saved, even though as through fire" come into the equation??

 

[KennethC]

Jesus is perfect theology!

If we watch our Lord in dealing with people we can see that He is grace personified. Let's take a quick look at just one subject..people coming to Jesus for healing.

Did Jesus ever say.." Nope..can't heal you today because you have a secret sin in your life.."

Jesus did not say...." I definitely can't heal you because you have not eaten right..( the funny thing here is that they were all on the Mediterranean diet too) "

Jesus did not say "...you I cannot heal because you have a generational curse that goes way back....go back and confess the sins of your fathers....then come back to Me for healing.."

Jesus did not say ..."..No healing for you today...you are not following all the commandments of Moses...stop that sinning first.....then come to Me.."

Jesus did not say.." you will definitely not get healed because you are dappling in the occult...you are demon possessed.....how do you think you got all those devils inside of you?....renounce your activities first..."

Coming to Jesus in faith causes His life to be imparted to us!...whatever we have reaped..Jesus is greater then it!

Matthew 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The news about Him spread throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him "all " who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them.


Jesus is grace in action and He is perfect theology!

You are right Jesus did not say all those things because people can come to Him no matter how bad of things they have done, after coming to Him that is another discussion though.

Also as for healing you used one passage from Matthew 4:24, but what about the other times where people came to Jesus to be healed and He just walked through the crowd and did not heal all of them. He even only stopped once when He felt the healing power leave Him to see to who it went to, and the woman who only touched His robe that got healed Jesus did not take the credit for healing her. What did He say to her ???

"Your faith has healed you"

This is not the only place either Jesus stated this as places he told the person their faith is what healed them can be seen in: Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34, Luke 8:48, Mark 10:52, Luke 7:50........

Jesus did not take credit for the healing !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

A manifestation of the work of the flesh is self-effort. Paul talked having confidence in the "things we do.." things born from the flesh....Paul said to beware of those that try to impose "works" on the Philippians.....he calls then dogs that try to attain things with their self-effort....

Philippians 3:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:

Abraham had the word of the Lord...but he tried to "fulfill" the word of God in his own way and strength and created an Ishmael in the process....in effect Abraham was trying to "bring about" the promise of God....sounds like a good desire...but God had to wait until Abraham had no confidence in the flesh to bring about God's promise...it was all God..( altho Abraham did get to "participate" in having sex with his wife.. )

Did you ever notice that when God spoke to Abraham when He wanted him to sacrifice Isaac?....He said.."take your only son.."..God doesn't not recognize anything done by human effort..even if it is trying to do "ggod things"..like doing the will of God for our lives.

The flesh will not get any glory..even if we try to fulfill the word of God.

 

[Grace777x70]

In regards to "rewards"..something to ponder...

I think some sons are going to be mad when people that have labored all day..get the same reward as the one who only worked for 1 hour...grace is scandalous and offends our worldly thoughts and ways!

Look at the Labours in the Vineyard story Jesus told about in Matt 10:1-16

Matthew 20:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] 'Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.[SUP]15 [/SUP] 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?'
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "So the last shall be first, and the first last."

 

[FreeNChrist]

You are right Jesus did not say all those things because people can come to Him no matter how bad of things they have done, after coming to Him that is another discussion though.

Dang, I had it better before I came to Him.

 

[Grace777x70]

All that CAME to Jesus were healed...CAME is the operative word.

There is not one place where people came to Jesus to be healed and they weren't.....there are times He was walking around and deliberated went to certain people to heal them..this is a manifestation of the gifts of healings in His life by the Holy Spirit inside of Him....but all that came to Him got healed..

I could plaster scripture after scripture to show this..but it is not needed...

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ.

Many times the gifts of healings come into play in Jesus's life as can be seen in many situations..like that pool where He walked up to one and asked him if he wanted to be healed....these times are completely different then people coming to Jesus

You are right Jesus did not say all those things because people can come to Him no matter how bad of things they have done, after coming to Him that is another discussion though.

Also as for healing you used one passage from Matthew 4:24, but what about the other times where people came to Jesus to be healed and He just walked through the crowd and did not heal all of them. He even only stopped once when He felt the healing power leave Him to see to who it went to, and the woman who only touched His robe that got healed Jesus did not take the credit for healing her. What did He say to her ???

"Your faith has healed you"

This is not the only place either Jesus stated this as places he told the person their faith is what healed them can be seen in: Matthew 9:22, Mark 5:34, Luke 8:48, Mark 10:52, Luke 7:50........

Jesus did not take credit for the healing !!!

 

[KennethC]

In regards to "rewards"..something to ponder...

I think some sons are going to be mad when people that have labored all day..get the same reward as the one who only worked for 1 hour...grace is scandalous and offends our worldly thoughts and ways!

Look at the Labours in the Vineyard story Jesus told about in Matt 10:1-16

Matthew 20:14-16 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] 'Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.[SUP]15 [/SUP] 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?'
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "So the last shall be first, and the first last."

Put in proper context here...................

As this passage about the workers in the vineyard are speaking about workers who came to Christ at an early age in Christ and lived for Him, and those who come to Him at the end of their lives.

Meaning they did not have the same amount of time spent in the faith as one another, therefore the same reward is justly given to both.


This does not apply to this type of situation:

Two men come to Christ at 25 years of age, one of the men stays a believing congregation member in Christ living his days out for the Lord. The other man goes into the ministry and does some evangelizing work as well living his days out for the Lord.

They both die at 85 years of age, meaning they both spent the same amount of time in servitude to the Lord.......

Who do you think will get rewards or more rewards, the one who sit still and just stayed a minor active member of the faith, or the one who went into and took on a major role in the faith ???

This is why again properly discerning and dividing the Word of God needs to be taken account of, because the situation of the workers in the vineyard does not apply to two people who was in the faith the same amount of time.

 

[Grace777x70]

All healing comes from Jesus...some got it from Him alone healing them directly..others .."heard of Jesus and this generated faith.."...

Mark 7:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

.like the woman with the issue of blood is a another prime example..there are tons of examples of people coming to Jesus when they "heard about Him"...this is their faith responding to the hearing of Jesus....this is different then having the gifts of healings in manifestation which takes no faith on the part of the person getting healed..2 different groups of people..

Mark 5:25-27 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
[SUP]27 [/SUP] When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is so hard for us to believe and rest in the Lord's acceptance grace....it is a major stumbling block to our natural minds..

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!

 

[KennethC]

All that CAME to Jesus were healed...CAME is the operative word.

There is not one place where people came to Jesus to be healed and they weren't.....there are times He was walking around and deliberated went to certain people to heal them..this is a manifestation of the gifts of healings in His life by the Holy Spirit inside of Him....but all that came to Him got healed..

I could plaster scripture after scripture to show this..but it is not needed...

Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ.

Many times the gifts of healings come into play in Jesus's life as can be seen in many situations..like that pool where He walked up to one and asked him if he wanted to be healed....these times are completely different then people coming to Jesus

What I was speaking on was the crowds that He just walked through that not all got healed, there are those times mentioned in scripture.

Jesus only healed when it served the will of God, that is how it works with us by the Holy Spirit.

The healing is only done if it serves His will, it is not done willy nilly and to everybody. If that was the case then the believers who are given this gift can go around and heal everybody. That is not the case though !!!

The reference of all who come to Him being healed is in reference to receiving remission for our sins through Him.

There was times Jesus passed through the crowds and even the time mentioned in scripture where He went to the other side of the sea after sending the people away.

 

[KennethC]

It is so hard for us to believe and rest in the Lord's acceptance grace....it is a major stumbling block to our natural minds..

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous!

Please and I ask in all love and respect stop with this bolded nonsense !!!

Nobody and I repeat nobody is talking about self-effort or self-performance................

The actions of a believer we speak on is the things that the Holy Spirit guides us in doing, as He abiding in us will be very evident in our behavior and actions.

If you state behavior and actions have no bearing then that is the same as saying there is no Holy Spirit working us, and that is what is scandalous.

When we are born again the Holy Spirit is placed within us to help us grow and mature in the faith, this growth process will be evident in the actions we put forth toward others and also the things we do.

There is no condemnation to those in Christ, who walk not by the flesh but walk by the Spirit...................

There is two parts to that teaching, not one !!!

To those who take and want to debate about that and use the same faulty argument that the second half of Romans 8:1 was added on need to keep reading on. Yes it was added but Paul repeated the same exact understanding in verses: Romans 8:4, Romans 8:5, Romans 8:6, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:13

Only if we are lead by the Spirit (not the flesh) do we belong to Christ !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Please and I ask in all love and respect stop with this bolded nonsense !!!

Nobody and I repeat nobody is talking about self-effort or self-performance................

The actions of a believer we speak on is the things that the Holy Spirit guides us in doing, as He abiding in us will be very evident in our behavior and actions.

If you state behavior and actions have no bearing then that is the same as saying there is no Holy Spirit working us, and that is what is scandalous.

When we are born again the Holy Spirit is placed within us to help us grow and mature in the faith, this growth process will be evident in the actions we put forth toward others and also the things we do.

There is no condemnation to those in Christ, who walk not by the flesh but walk by the Spirit...................

There is two parts to that teaching, not one !!!

To those who take and want to debate about that and use the same faulty argument that the second half of Romans 8:1 was added on need to keep reading on. Yes it was added but Paul repeated the same exact understanding in verses: Romans 8:4, Romans 8:5, Romans 8:6, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:13

Only if we are lead by the Spirit (not the flesh) do we belong to Christ !!!

If you're not talking about SELF-effort, or SELF-performance, then whose effort and performance are you talking about??

 

[Grace777x70]

That is so off in terms of healing and the Lord that I won't even bother to bring all the scriptures up..Jesus..ok..just one more..I can't help myself..lol

Acts 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

What I was speaking on was the crowds that He just walked through that not all got healed, there are those times mentioned in scripture.

Jesus only healed when it served the will of God, that is how it works with us by the Holy Spirit.

The healing is only done if it serves His will, it is not done willy nilly and to everybody. If that was the case then the believers who are given this gift can go around and heal everybody. That is not the case though !!!

The reference of all who come to Him being healed is in reference to receiving remission for our sins through Him.

There was times Jesus passed through the crowds and even the time mentioned in scripture where He went to the other side of the sea after sending the people away.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well..if you are not talking about a D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness..then it will not apply to you!..that's a good thing!..

Please and I ask in all love and respect stop with this bolded nonsense !!!

Nobody and I repeat nobody is talking about self-effort or self-performance................

The actions of a believer we speak on is the things that the Holy Spirit guides us in doing, as He abiding in us will be very evident in our behavior and actions.

If you state behavior and actions have no bearing then that is the same as saying there is no Holy Spirit working us, and that is what is scandalous.

When we are born again the Holy Spirit is placed within us to help us grow and mature in the faith, this growth process will be evident in the actions we put forth toward others and also the things we do.

There is no condemnation to those in Christ, who walk not by the flesh but walk by the Spirit...................

There is two parts to that teaching, not one !!!

To those who take and want to debate about that and use the same faulty argument that the second half of Romans 8:1 was added on need to keep reading on. Yes it was added but Paul repeated the same exact understanding in verses: Romans 8:4, Romans 8:5, Romans 8:6, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:13

Only if we are lead by the Spirit (not the flesh) do we belong to Christ !!!

 

[KennethC]

Well..if you are not talking about a D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness..then it will not apply to you!..that's a good thing!..

I have one and only one question for you:

Does the Holy Spirit who abides in us be evident in our actions, yes or no ???

Just give a simple yes or no answer because this does not need a drawn out answer, it is very simple to answer.

 

[KennethC]

That is so off in terms of healing and the Lord that I won't even bother to bring all the scriptures up..Jesus..ok..just one more..I can't help myself..lol

Acts 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

It is not off terms as it does apply to how the gift of healing is ministered, and there you go again.

You do know that when the word "all" is mentioned in scripture it does not actually refer to all ???

This is a study that drives people nuts because there are times when the bible says all but is actually only referring to set area or group.

 

[KennethC]

If you're not talking about SELF-effort, or SELF-performance, then whose effort and performance are you talking about??

The Holy Spirit who works in all true believers to walk in His ways, and helps us to grow and mature in walking in His ways.

The more we grow and mature in the faith the more the evidence of the Holy Spirit in us will be seen, as the change He does internally will be what shows out externally in our actions.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok..if someone says to me....take ALL the apples in the basket...they have a secret code that it really means..take a couple of them....not "all"...I an going to have to go back and take English lessons now....I am totally confused on what words mean...

It is not off terms as it does apply to how the gift of healing is ministered, and there you go again.

You do know that when the word "all" is mentioned in scripture it does not actually refer to all ???

This is a study that drives people nuts because there are times when the bible says all but is actually only referring to set area or group.

 

[roaringkitten]

Cheap grace or free grace?

Jesus is our grace. Grace was given freely according to Rom 3:24, but it cost the Lord His blood, for you were bought with a price(1 Cor 7:23).

"cheap grace" is a slogan of man, totally foreign to the Bible.....On another note, actually OSAS should really be something like ISAR!(If saved always righteous, for our Righteousness, Jesus, is eternal!)

"...The LORD our righteousness" Jer 33:16b

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes..the first one is..love..then joy, peace..all of the fruit show up eventually when we get our mind renewed.

I have one and only one question for you:

Does the Holy Spirit who abides in us be evident in our actions, yes or no ???

Just give a simple yes or no answer because this does not need a drawn out answer, it is very simple to answer.