child sacrifices of the jews Horrific !
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M
miktre
Guest
Did you read the link I posted, which was the Jewish version of the exegetics of the verses in the Talmud that say to kill Christians? They are a commentary on Ex.14:5-7
1. [Exodus 14:5-7 "It was told to the king of Egypt that the people had fled; and the heart of Pharoah and his servants became transformed regarding the people, and they said, 'What is this that we have done that we have sent away Israel from serving us?' He harnessed his chariot and attracted his people with him.] He took six hundred elite chariots [and all the chariots of Egypt, with officers on them all."]From whom were the animals that drove the chariots? If you say they were from Egypt, doesn't it say (Exodus 9:6) "and all the livestock of Egypt died [from the fifth plague]"? If you say they were from Pharoah, doesn't it say (Exodus 9:3) "[Moses said to Pharoah]: Behold, the hand of G-d is on your livestock that are in the field"? If you say they were from the Jews, doesn't it say (Exodus 10:26) "And our livestock, as well, will go with us- not a hoof will be left"? Rather from whom were they, from the Egyptians who feared G-d [and were not affected by the plagues]. We now see that the livestock of the G-d-fearers that escaped the plague caused great hardship for the Jews [by being used for chariots to pursue them]. From here R. Shimon [ben Yochai] said: Kill [even] the good among the gentiles.
From the above teaching we see that R. Shimon ben Yochai was discussing a case of war. The G-d-fearers among the Egyptians allowed their animals to be used in battle against the Jews. Presumably, these people went along with their animals and drove the chariots. We now see that the G-d-fearers, the "good" among the gentiles, were doing battle with the Jews. To this R. Shimon ben Yochai said that, when in battle, do not try to spare the lives of those opposing soldiers who are fine, upstanding people. Kill any enemy soldier, regardless of their character. This contextual approach to understanding R. Shimon ben Yochai's statement is how the post-Talmudic literature has read this statement [see Tosafot, Avodah Zarah 26b sv Velo; Maimonides, Mishneh Torah Hilchot Avodah Zarah 10:1]. Reading R. Shimon ben Yochai's teaching as a single-sentence imperative to kill all gentiles is simply wrong and is not how Jewish scholars have ever understood it.
2. Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2:11 and the commentary of R. Yosef Karo,Kessef Mishneh
A Jew who killed a righteous gentile is not executed in a court of law as it says (Exodus 21:14) "If a man shall act intentionall against his fellow..." [and a gentile is not considered a fellow] and even more so that he is not executed for killing an unrighteous gentile.What our teacher Maimonides meant when he wrote that he is not executed in a court of law is that he is nevertheless punished by Heaven.
The above passage in Maimonides shows that there is a discrepancy between the treatment of a murderer of a Jew and a gentile. The Bible says that a murderer is only executed if he kills his "fellow" and by being parts of very different communities a gentile is not the "fellow" of a Jew. Is this murder forbidden? Absolutely. However, biblical fiat declares that this murder is not a capital punishment. However, rather than allowing this murderer to receive a minor punishment, his punishment is left to Divine providence. G-d will punish this sin appropriately because it is out of the court's hands.
While it is understandable that Jewish literature has been relatively quiet about something as obvious as the prohibition against killing gentiles, the following sources are just some of those who say it explicitly: Tosafot, Avodah Zarah 26b sv. Velo; Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2:11, Hilchot Avodah Zarah 10:1; R. Yoel Sirkes, Bayit Chadash, Yoreah Deah 158; Taz, Yoreh Deah 158:1; Beit Meir, Even HaEzer 17:3; R. Yosef Babad, Minchat Chinuch, 93:2; R. Avraham Yishayahu Karelitz, Chazon Ish, Bava Kamma 10:16.
Do I believe all the commentaries in the Talmud? NO! I have read some of them while visiting the Orthodox Synagogue and almost laughed at some of the explanations.
But I think you have to keep in mind that, just like with the Bible, you cannot pull pieces of commentaries out of context, and expect to end up with anything that even approaches the realistic.
And Nathan, you say you "looked up" some things. Then why not post them here?
I think it is because they are from disreputable websites, and you know it. Or places with such shady opinions, it is an embarrassment to show us.
Really, this whole thread is an embarrassment to Christ, who was, after all, Jewish!
N
nathan3
Guest
I rather not post graphic things. The info I was talking about, was actual case studies of criminal acts committed in the name of the Talmudic teachings and traditions. There are Four, different Talmuds. Not sure which one you quoted from. But I know about the crimes committed by those groups of people claiming to be Jews, and really are not.
They maybe be going on-today. And if the state the world is any indication something is going on. Do you see some of these media performances at these music award shows and like televised events ?
Kinda sick.
Any coincidence, the people that own those TV stations, and orchestrate those events, are all Jews, with some sort of belief in what ? I don't know, but a sacrifice of a Christian on stage , and mocking of the cross at a prime time TV slot, dose not look like something normal Jews would do, would they ?
Anyway. I'm not going to post the details in this forum. I really think the original poster should have just stayed to scripture and allowed that, to condemn those kinds of acts these people tend to commit. I personally don't want to talk about it.
But only commented to take the pressure off the original poster who meant no harm by it.
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Obviously, if you had read my post, you would have seen which version I was talking about.
To my knowledge, from what I have studied, there are basically only 2 Talmuds, which are commentaries on the Old Testament and represent codified law.
The Babylonian is the more extensive, and used more for modern Jewish law. It was written during the Babylonian captivity. (c. 605 BC to 582 BC)
The Jerusalem Talmud was not written in Jerusalem, and it is brief and difficult to understand. Here is a great video that explains the different.
The Jerusalem and Babylonian Talmuds - Inspiration & Entertainment
As for your accusations about what Jews did to Gentiles, I could probably post for several hours here about what Gentiles have done to Jews. Interesting I could not come up with a single hit of your proof of Jews killing Gentiles and case studies of court cases. I do hope those case studies were not done during the Spanish Inquisition!
Lacking the links, you have proven nothing. I don't think anyone here would be afraid of the truth, if it were properly posted. Unless of course, this is just more anti-Semiticism, disguised as some kind of questionable scholarship!
As for TV shows and the Jewish connection, I recently watched about 2 minutes of the Grammys, if that is what you were coming at side-long. It was repulsive, but I don't know what that had to do with Jews. I also have many non-Christian friends who saw the same issues with the Grammys as I do, and I would call them extremely liberal. Bad entertainment is just bad entertainment, not a world wide conspiracy of North America Jews (Oh yes, some of my Jewish friends also were disgusted by the Grammys too!)
None of this amounts to a hill of beans to God. Only those of Christ are of the seed of Abraham. Threads like these only serve one purpose: a ruse to get those who are called to concern themselves with those elements that are passing away.
The problem here these group of jews if they are , of wich by blood I am one but the wuestion is are they the not jews mentioned in revelations
I know your works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but you are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Thus the opposite holds true: Those who are Jews are of the synagogue of Christ. And to Christ one is only a Jew, and not a liar, if he is one inwardly.
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38miles
Guest
Try only to be amazed by God. To God be the Glory, alone. How great is our God! Amazing grace!
[video=youtube;sWSKtoURGAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWSKtoURGAg[/video]
M
miktre
Guest
You will have to get over yourself, I was amazed that people who call themselves Christians would promote such garbage, so no I don't find you amazing, funny you would think that. The evil of it amazed me more in the men of Benjamin type way.
Jdg 20:41 And when the men of Israel turned again, the men of Benjamin were amazed: for they saw that evil was come upon them.
I think the relationship between the gentiles and the Jews is something our God is very interested in. There are spiritual truths involved that we are only given a glimpse of, but we know that Jerusalem and the Jewish race will be involved when judgment comes. A study of this relationship is certainly a step to understanding God. God made clear from the beginning that the gentiles that scripture calls "the stranger among us" were to be welcomed.
The relationship has been rocky from just after the time of Abraham. I shudder to think of the horrible murder of Jews by Rome in 134. I'm amazed that the Jews didn't unite and fight back when they were abused for hundreds of years. Luther advised to murder rabbis. They didn't even unite to protect themselves from Hitler.
As soon as the councils for the Christian church passed from Jewish into gentile hands, the church fathers started a strange look at Jews that went far beyond that they did not recognize Christ. Because Jews recognized that there was a coming Messiah and they recognized all our OT scripture says, the line that God drew between the new in Christ and what was eternal in God is still debated constantly. The history of how and why there were so many Christian Jews, and then after 134 most Jews were not Christian, is strange. In the book of Romans there is much discussion about the part the Jews play in our life, today. Biblically, they were chosen to show us God and to lead us. Christ, a Jew, came from that culture.
When someone brings out the old accusation "Jews believe in child sacrifice" without looking at scripture and history, it is time for alarm bells to go off in the Christian community. This is the accusation the old style Catholic church used to get the public to murder Jews.
The relationship has been rocky from just after the time of Abraham. I shudder to think of the horrible murder of Jews by Rome in 134. I'm amazed that the Jews didn't unite and fight back when they were abused for hundreds of years. Luther advised to murder rabbis. They didn't even unite to protect themselves from Hitler.
As soon as the councils for the Christian church passed from Jewish into gentile hands, the church fathers started a strange look at Jews that went far beyond that they did not recognize Christ. Because Jews recognized that there was a coming Messiah and they recognized all our OT scripture says, the line that God drew between the new in Christ and what was eternal in God is still debated constantly. The history of how and why there were so many Christian Jews, and then after 134 most Jews were not Christian, is strange. In the book of Romans there is much discussion about the part the Jews play in our life, today. Biblically, they were chosen to show us God and to lead us. Christ, a Jew, came from that culture.
When someone brings out the old accusation "Jews believe in child sacrifice" without looking at scripture and history, it is time for alarm bells to go off in the Christian community. This is the accusation the old style Catholic church used to get the public to murder Jews.
שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל
[video=youtube;X9V_0h67G9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6pgg7khyYU[/video]
Shˁma Yisraˀel by Sarit Hadad
When the heart cries
only God hears
The pain rises out of the soul
A man falls down before he sinks down
With a little prayer (he) cuts the silence
Shˁma (Hear) Yisraˀel my God,
you're the omnipotent
You gave me my life,
you gave me everything
In my eyes a tear,
the heart cries quietly
And when the heart is quiet,
the soul screams
Shˁma (Hear) Yisraˀel my God,
now I am alone
Make me strong my God;
make it that I won't be afraid
The pain is big,
and there's no where to run away
End it because I can't take it anymore
(make the end of it because I have no more energy left within me)
When the heart cries,
Time stands still
All of a sudden, the man sees his entire life
He doesn't want to go to the unknown
He cries to his God right before a big fall
[video=youtube;X9V_0h67G9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6pgg7khyYU[/video]
Shˁma Yisraˀel by Sarit Hadad
When the heart cries
only God hears
The pain rises out of the soul
A man falls down before he sinks down
With a little prayer (he) cuts the silence
Shˁma (Hear) Yisraˀel my God,
you're the omnipotent
You gave me my life,
you gave me everything
In my eyes a tear,
the heart cries quietly
And when the heart is quiet,
the soul screams
Shˁma (Hear) Yisraˀel my God,
now I am alone
Make me strong my God;
make it that I won't be afraid
The pain is big,
and there's no where to run away
End it because I can't take it anymore
(make the end of it because I have no more energy left within me)
When the heart cries,
Time stands still
All of a sudden, the man sees his entire life
He doesn't want to go to the unknown
He cries to his God right before a big fall
N
nathan3
Guest
Sorry,I was with you, until you showed how ridiculous your reasoning about this is, with that video link. That is not facts or anything constituting history about the subject.
You cant just post things like this, and then site you-tube videos that make No sense ..
That makes a mockery of what truth there is in the subject. Really did you do this on purpose? I have to wounder. That video is something a kid edited together.
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M
miktre
Guest
Hey Nathan,
Perhaps if the spirit moves, you might consider starting a new thread about the talmud, what it says and who follows it. Maybe give us some more clarification and insight about the nationality/religion/race attributes of the title 'Jew'.
I'm already familiar with much of what you've outlined but perhaps I might learn something new to me.
TY
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
The problem is that when things like this are posted, it hurts people who are coming to the truth about the world, and they say oh it is all just a joke.
The poster was talking about the Babylonian Talmud, written by those who called themselves Jews but had been joined to another god. They made room for the enemy, and we know how that goes. They were discussing the level if guilt, as Jews are wont to do in tallying sins and mitzvahs, whether it was against the law to give your child to an acolyte of molech or whether you had to actually kill the child yourself, and what if molech meant king, does that mean you could pass your child into service of a king and still be guilty? These idiots messed Judaism up really bad. I'm guessing it has something to do with God shutting their eyes and closing their ears, that they didn't notice their religion got hijacked.
Same thing happened with the RCC. There's nothing saying a Roman Catholic individual can't follow Christ and stay where God called them, but Rome hijacked Christianity with the edict of Milan. So now instead of being just the body of Christ, now we had to spend 1200 years with corrupt leadership. All the horrors done, were in the name of the Church, not the church. So now we have those who say they are Jews and those who say they are Catholics, and we have people who are of the promise of Abraham and the real universal body of Christ the True Church. Then to complicate things even more, a people stepped up in the stead and name of Israel, as a nation but isn't Jewish either because it's a government thing not a religion and not a distinct people, although some say they are the tribe of Judah I have yet to research that one. All the confusion. It's definitely intentional. The enemy is the father of lies. I was just reading a thing from the RCC saying that Muslims are practically family, children of Abraham, whereas you can't be saved if you leave the RCC. The best part is what's happening with media and technology. It's all leading towards one thing. Entrance to heaven through the "church". So basically it's Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and ecumenical "unity" fellowships, and the USA and Britain, and Oprah and Obama -vs- conservative christianity -vs- the Orthodox Church, which is like Russiah and surrounding areas. In my opinion, history is always worth learning, as it has that tendency to repeat itself. Then you have people with kabbalah/src ties (the illuminati is a misnomer used to detract from whats actually going on), who are all of a sudden acting all evil and bringing pagan deities into their performances like never before. Rihanna recently released a video that is very well done artistically and she has to wear black sunglasses to hide her anger, she's got everything except freedom. She's even bringing back the old slave jewelry. I'm a fan, we're all slaves as long as our flesh is in this world, might as well rock some shackles.
There, my humble effort to help redeem what without the music would have been the most troubling and obsurd thread. So thanks girls... good tunes.
That one guy though, he seriously posted lies in order to bash Jews, I'm hearing more and more of this "christianized" anti-semetics, or just idiots wanting money, coming from middle eastern countries, spoken in mostly broken English. Very sad. But I have a new tune to go with my new translation of the Shema so I'm going happily to my bed, thanks Praus.
It's things like this where Jesus spoke against the traditions and commands of men in Matthew 15
Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
By the way, don't watch Rihanna's new video, it's so explicit, I already watched so the damage is done. It's really bad though, she basically admits she sold herself for money and now she's on top...woop crime does pay.
That's not the reason but its not all but Iam leaving this subject alone before it gets out of contex
I to say I myself am a Jew an Israelite by the right of decendency I love my people but oppose this behavior but , I will set this subject aside and instead put my sight on the real issues like salvation the lost the broken hearted , and let it be Christ...