Children of the Promise

[Blain]

If the bible says that Christ was in the church and people don't believe that then yes they don't believe the bible.

Hmm.... I see. Well I see a few issues with this. First is that by saying this you have the if you don't see and understand the bible like I do then you don't believe in the bible kind of thinking and that is very unhealthy as a lot of time what we believe is the truth is in fact not or sometimes it really is however if we do not have a teachable heart a mind that can be molded if we are unable to accept that we may be wrong in our views then even if what we see as truth really isn't the truth we will never know because we are so set in what we think and believe.

Second there is the discussion of the church. It say jesus was in the church in the wilderness, but what is the church what does it mean be a church or to be in one?

third you have consider that everyone is at different levels of faith and everyone has different levels and degrees of understanding especially when it comes to the bible. So even if they didn't agree with you on this and say that your right about it as well that doesn't mean they don't believe in the bible it means that they aren't at that level yet of understanding. It's rarely ever so black and white there are many things you have to take into account

 

[PeterJens]

I have a problem. Anyone who says Jesus commited suicide is wrong. Salvation failed and has no meaning if this is true.
The whole reason why the cross works is because the Jews and the Romans executed Jesus but he forgave them.
It is in this forgiveness that we also walk. You could argue because he died before they broke his legs to kill him before sunset means very little. He had been unusually flogged, beaten and had a crown of thorns on his head. Most likely he actually bled out.

The next point I have a problem with is Jesus all the time talked about the tenants being replaced. After AD70 and the destruction of the temple Judaism changed from a sacrificial religion to a more spiritual one.

Also we have the lost 10 tribes, and the vast adoption of Judaism by different people groups. Some would argue what you see as Jews today are very different from the Jews of Jesus's day.

Paul definately believed there would be salvation within Israel one day. He seemed to preach we have been grafted into the vine in which we both share. Now if we are grafted in, in part we are now all part of Israel. The bigger problem is Israel in the Torah sense ruled by the law no longer exists even today, so Israel has not returned like in the days of Nehemiah.

And equally if Jesus fulfilled the law and is the cornerstone, there is no salvation outside of Jesus. The fulfillment is in Jews coming to Jesus and accepting Him as the messiah.

But this is not what the zionists want to believe. They think the Jews have a revelation and can continue in the old covenant. But that makes no sense at all. Righteousness and truth are singular, in God the trinity, which means in the cross. "No man comes to the Father but by me" is a lie if you believe in the fulfillment of the Jews outside Christ.

 

[Blain]

I have a problem. Anyone who says Jesus commited suicide is wrong. Salvation failed and has no meaning if this is true.
The whole reason why the cross works is because the Jews and the Romans executed Jesus but he forgave them.
It is in this forgiveness that we also walk. You could argue because he died before they broke his legs to kill him before sunset means very little. He had been unusually flogged, beaten and had a crown of thorns on his head. Most likely he actually bled out.

The next point I have a problem with is Jesus all the time talked about the tenants being replaced. After AD70 and the destruction of the temple Judaism changed from a sacrificial religion to a more spiritual one.

Also we have the lost 10 tribes, and the vast adoption of Judaism by different people groups. Some would argue what you see as Jews today are very different from the Jews of Jesus's day.

Paul definately believed there would be salvation within Israel one day. He seemed to preach we have been grafted into the vine in which we both share. Now if we are grafted in, in part we are now all part of Israel. The bigger problem is Israel in the Torah sense ruled by the law no longer exists even today, so Israel has not returned like in the days of Nehemiah.

And equally if Jesus fulfilled the law and is the cornerstone, there is no salvation outside of Jesus. The fulfillment is in Jews coming to Jesus and accepting Him as the messiah.

But this is not what the zionists want to believe. They think the Jews have a revelation and can continue in the old covenant. But that makes no sense at all. Righteousness and truth are singular, in God the trinity, which means in the cross. "No man comes to the Father but by me" is a lie if you believe in the fulfillment of the Jews outside Christ.[/QUOTE
I have never heard anyone say he committed suicide but suicide is taking your own life he didn't do that he allowed them to take it from it emphasis on the word allowed.

 

[PeterJens]

I have never heard anyone say he committed suicide but suicide is taking your own life he didn't do that he allowed them to take it from it emphasis on the word allowed.

I am making a point, Jesus was killed. The problem with some of the language is non-christians use the argument Jesus commited suicide and His Father asked him to do it to meet some court room arrangement. The words have been used in books and articles, it is like child abuse.

Now Jesus is clear, the Father gave authority for Jesus's life over to romans and Jews so they could kill Him. Jesus foreknew this was going to happen and did not walk away. What people get worked up about is the racism that has been used to say the Jews murdered Jesus. Jesus was innocent and was killed by the state, but it was a misscariage of justice rather than murder. And secondly Jesus forgave them and so should we. They were a representation for all of us, their sin was our sin, their desire for His death was our desire as sinners. It is this contrast between bitterness killing innocense which gives the cross its power, and shows how great a God, the Lord truly is. Greater love has no man than this, he lays down His life for His friends.

I know some have a problem with this love from the heart and soul of an individual, but it is with this same heart and soul and strength we are called to love God. Love is His language.

 

[KJV1611]

Hmm.... I see. Well I see a few issues with this. First is that by saying this you have the if you don't see and understand the bible like I do then you don't believe in the bible kind of thinking and that is very unhealthy as a lot of time what we believe is the truth is in fact not or sometimes it really is however if we do not have a teachable heart a mind that can be molded if we are unable to accept that we may be wrong in our views then even if what we see as truth really isn't the truth we will never know because we are so set in what we think and believe.

Second there is the discussion of the church. It say jesus was in the church in the wilderness, but what is the church what does it mean be a church or to be in one?

third you have consider that everyone is at different levels of faith and everyone has different levels and degrees of understanding especially when it comes to the bible. So even if they didn't agree with you on this and say that your right about it as well that doesn't mean they don't believe in the bible it means that they aren't at that level yet of understanding. It's rarely ever so black and white there are many things you have to take into account

Most people here will call the word church a mis-translation because they don't believe that we have an inerrant bible. By doing that they deny one of the many proofs that Christians existed in Old Testament times. Nobody can come to the truth of scripture unless they understand that every word is right. Most people wont do that, they will call it a mistranslation or mistake and totally miss the message of the verse.

This is the reason there are so many diagreements and arguments on this forum. The bible isn't up to private interpretation, the bible means exactly what is written.

 

[KJV1611]

I would like for one of the proponents of Israel being God's chosen people to explain how the fleshly children of Israel are the children of God and of the promise when the bible says exactly the opposite of that.

 

[kaylagrl]

I would like for one of the proponents of Israel being God's chosen people to explain how the fleshly children of Israel are the children of God and of the promise when the bible says exactly the opposite of that.

You are talking about the remnant in Romans 11. The church has not replaced Israel.

 

[KJV1611]

You are talking about the remnant in Romans 11. The church has not replaced Israel.

Where do you get remnant from, please explain.

 

[jasonj]

Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Have you been duped into believing that fleshly Israel is the children of the promise? Well they're not, the children of the promise are the children of God, they are the true Israel, they are the true seed of Abraham.

Guess who the children of the promise are... Just like Isaac was, we who are saved by grace through faith are the children of the promise. Shame on those Jews and Christian Zionist's for trying to take our place!

Galatians 4:28 KJV
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

I would say anyone who has their faith placed in Christ are the chosen of God and hiers according to the promise. whether Jew, gentile, male, female, black , white, Russian, American or any other label we place on people. The answer to any question regarding any Label found is Christ Jesus who died and more than that was raised to Life, and further Lives before the beginning, through the past, Now, and for eternity to come. there was a time when only the jew was chosen, But God has chosen Those who come to Him through His Son who Himself was born a jew, so if all of us are "in" Christ, then all of us are His chosen people, Israel whether jewish in natural descent, by conversion, or by simply having and keeping our faith firmly In Jesus Christ. there is neither Jew nor gentile in Christ, but he is through all and in all and by Him all things hold together. and certainly, in Him is our call and approval. God bless you

 

[KJV1611]

I would say anyone who has their faith placed in Christ are the chosen of God and hiers according to the promise. whether Jew, gentile, male, female, black , white, Russian, American or any other label we place on people. The answer to any question regarding any Label found is Christ Jesus who died and more than that was raised to Life, and further Lives before the beginning, through the past, Now, and for eternity to come. there was a time when only the jew was chosen, But God has chosen Those who come to Him through His Son who Himself was born a jew, so if all of us are "in" Christ, then all of us are His chosen people, Israel whether jewish in natural descent, by conversion, or by simply having and keeping our faith firmly In Jesus Christ. there is neither Jew nor gentile in Christ, but he is through all and in all and by Him all things hold together. and certainly, in Him is our call and approval. God bless you

Thank you for the post. You said exactly what I'm trying to these guys to see.... Also i love your avitar.

 

[jasonj]

Thank you for the post. You said exactly what I'm trying to these guys to see.... Also i love your avitar.

your welcome and yeah its a cool pic I thought, and so true. God bless you

 

[psalm6819]

You are talking about the remnant in Romans 11. The church has not replaced Israel.

Hi Kayla, they don't understand God's integrity, that He is not a man that He should lie. Maybe they don't think there's enough to go around, like God's in short supply and has to take from Israel to give to the Church.

We know God keeps His word to the Israel/Jews and the Church and to thier misfortune, unbelievers.

 

[KJV1611]

Hi Kayla, they don't understand God's integrity, that He is not a man that He should lie. Maybe they don't think there's enough to go around, like God's in short supply and has to take from Israel to give to the Church.

We know God keeps His word to the Israel/Jews and the Church and to thier misfortune, unbelievers.

What did God promise to the flesh children of Israel?

 

[psalm6819]

I would like for one of the proponents of Israel being God's chosen people to explain how the fleshly children of Israel are the children of God and of the promise when the bible says exactly the opposite of that.

Show us where God says He's going to break His unilateral covenant with Abraham. Abraham slept thru it. God walked thru the covenant sacrifice alone.

Bilateral means you do your part(Abraham) I do my part (God). Unilateral means only one person is responsible to adhere (God).

 

[KJV1611]

Show us where God says He's going to break His unilateral covenant with Abraham. Abraham slept thru it. God walked thru the covenant sacrifice alone.

Bilateral means you do your part(Abraham) I do my part (God). Unilateral means only one person is responsible to adhere (God).

That promise was made to Abraham and his seed Christ. This has nothing to do with national Israel does it?

 

[Blain]

Most people here will call the word church a mis-translation because they don't believe that we have an inerrant bible. By doing that they deny one of the many proofs that Christians existed in Old Testament times. Nobody can come to the truth of scripture unless they understand that every word is right. Most people wont do that, they will call it a mistranslation or mistake and totally miss the message of the verse.

This is the reason there are so many diagreements and arguments on this forum. The bible isn't up to private interpretation, the bible means exactly what is written.

I have always said either entire word of God true and flawless or else none of it is, the issue is interpretation not the word itself.
Here is my understanding of what a church is what means to be and be in one, I think that long before the buildings were refered to as the church it was first the group body and family of believers. in fact to this day this is what a church is to me, cc is my family my church my home actually cc has been more of a home to me than anywhere and I have two adopted moms on here who have been more mothers to me than anyone in my life.

in a sense Jesus may very well have been in the church in the wilderness just not the building

 

[KJV1611]

I have always said either entire word of God true and flawless or else none of it is, the issue is interpretation not the word itself.
Here is my understanding of what a church is what means to be and be in one, I think that long before the buildings were refered to as the church it was first the group body and family of believers. in fact to this day this is what a church is to me, cc is my family my church my home actually cc has been more of a home to me than anywhere and I have two adopted moms on here who have been more mothers to me than anyone in my life.

in a sense Jesus may very well have been in the church in the wilderness just not the building

According to Paul the church is the bride of Christ.

 

[Blain]

According to Paul the church is the bride of Christ.

and the bride of Christ is his children right? The believers the true Christians? Assuming so then my definition of the church is correct. I will admit that body of Christ the church is a little broken, the body attacks itself simply from different views and interpretations, there is also a lack of love as well. But even so we are family, I am very big on family when you grow up without a real family you treasure things like that. every person in cc even the ones who don't like me are family to me and even more so because they are family to him they are his children his treasured ones.

 

[DP]

What is significant about Isaac?

You should instead ask, "What is significant about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?"

For God is The God of... Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob.

Ex 3:15
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.
KJV



Luke 20:37
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
KJV

 

[DP]

John that answer doesn't make sense to me. Read my comments below and tell me if you agree or not.

Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
There are two Israels and one of them is not the true Israel.

[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
There are two seeds of Abraham but only one of them are the true children. The last part of the verse says that Christ will come from Isaac's seed.

[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the flesh are not the children of God. The children of God are the children of the promise.

That above still... shows inability to understand God's Word on the matter.

Did Jesus choose Apostle Paul or not????

Did God choose the OT saints or not???

Someone today, whether born of the seed of Israel or not, that believes on Jesus Christ WITHOUT ANY direct divine intervention like God did with the OT saints and His NT Apostles shows what difference??? It shows that God CHOSE certain ones out of Israel according to His Election, and NOT because of anything... they did!

Like Paul said in Rom.9 quoting God, saying He will have mercy upon those whom He CHOOSES.

This is why in the OT Books of the prophets God made many promises specifically to the nation of Israel, even promising that Israel will NEVER CEASE being a nation before Him, forever!