CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER
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FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 1:21 says that "God is pleased...to save those who believe". That should resolve your weird thinking about what man's belief does
You need your opinion to deflect from the clear verses that refute calvinism.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
If you don't recognize v.18 as speaking specifically about the gospel message of soul salvation, you are beyond help.
You need to quit hiding behind your opinions just because the verses refute your theology.
1 Cor 1:21 says that "God is pleased...to save those who believe". That should resolve your weird thinking about what man's belief does
Your opinion only. The context is obviously eternal soul salvation.
You need your opinion to deflect from the clear verses that refute calvinism.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
If you don't recognize v.18 as speaking specifically about the gospel message of soul salvation, you are beyond help.
You need to quit hiding behind your opinions just because the verses refute your theology.
FreeGrace2 said:
It does nothing. God does everything. WHEN man believes, God's plan (which you will deny) is to save the believer. And He does.
Of course God has a plan. And His plan HAS a purpose. You are really confused.
Again, you are very confused. Your theology does not help you.
It does nothing. God does everything. WHEN man believes, God's plan (which you will deny) is to save the believer. And He does.
This is hilarious, or could be, if it wasn't so sad.
Of course God has a plan. And His plan HAS a purpose. You are really confused.
Really? When everything IN the plan of salvation is found IN the Bible?
Again, you are very confused. Your theology does not help you.
FreeGrace2 said:
It is really a shame that you aren't able to understand the beauty of 1 Cor 1:21.
You and your calvinist cohorts keep saying Christ's death was ONLY FOR . . . ______________ .
So, show me the verse, please. Otherwise, there is NO REASON to believe such empty claims.
If you don't, the whole thread will KNOW what a farce your claims are.
It is really a shame that you aren't able to understand the beauty of 1 Cor 1:21.
Please FIND any verse that clearly shows that Christ's death was ONLY for (fill in the blank).
You and your calvinist cohorts keep saying Christ's death was ONLY FOR . . . ______________ .
So, show me the verse, please. Otherwise, there is NO REASON to believe such empty claims.
I think you means "since", rather than "sense". I do know how to spell. However, since you say that I have CLAIMED to be such an English expert, could you quote me posting that, and please include the post #.
If you don't, the whole thread will KNOW what a farce your claims are.
FreeGrace2 said:
Please show from that text where God changes the heart so he can believe. Or any other text. No limits.
20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
Your claims fail again.
There is NOTHING here about "so he can believe", which was my request.
v.19 is a stattement about regeneration, yes. But nothing else.
v.20 explains what people with "new hearts" do; follow God's decrees and keep His laws. The verse ends with they will be God's people.
But again, NOTHING about regeneration being the CAUSE of belief, or a requirement FOR belief.
Keep trying.
Please show from that text where God changes the heart so he can believe. Or any other text. No limits.
19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
Your claims fail again.
There is NOTHING here about "so he can believe", which was my request.
v.19 is a stattement about regeneration, yes. But nothing else.
v.20 explains what people with "new hearts" do; follow God's decrees and keep His laws. The verse ends with they will be God's people.
But again, NOTHING about regeneration being the CAUSE of belief, or a requirement FOR belief.
Keep trying.
FreeGrace2 said:
Well, we're in agreement here, although you don't understand why. The "things of the Spirit" relate to the "deep things of God", and NOT the gospel.
And everyone understand what a "trust issue" means.
The gospel is a trust issue. It actually begins with trusting that God exists. Rom 1:19-21. And NO ONE has any excuse for not believing (trusting) that.
So, there you go.
Well, we're in agreement here, although you don't understand why. The "things of the Spirit" relate to the "deep things of God", and NOT the gospel.
OK, we agree to disagree. I consider the context, which is about the deep things of God. And the gospel isn't a "spiritual issue" bur rather a TRUST issue.
And everyone understand what a "trust issue" means.
OK, we agree, but the gospel ISN'T a spiritual issue. And you haven't proved your claim.
The gospel is a trust issue. It actually begins with trusting that God exists. Rom 1:19-21. And NO ONE has any excuse for not believing (trusting) that.
So, there you go.
FreeGrace2 said:
Are you aware that believers can function from their sinful human nature and have a carnal mind? What Paul wrote was directly to believers.
Are you aware that believers can function from their sinful human nature and have a carnal mind? What Paul wrote was directly to believers.
Doesn't matter. EVERYONE understands a "trust issue" and the gospel is one.
The accurate term is natures, not personalities. Those with 2 personalities are described as schizophrenic. That is a mental illness.
Yes Paul taught that in Gal 5.
Correct.
FreeGrace2 said:
I KNOW for a fact that unbelievers CAN and DO understand the gospel promise of eternal life on the basis of believing in Jesus Christ, and yet not believe it themselves. I can't help your naivety. But there are many unbelievers who can and do understand the gospel.
I KNOW for a fact that unbelievers CAN and DO understand the gospel promise of eternal life on the basis of believing in Jesus Christ, and yet not believe it themselves. I can't help your naivety. But there are many unbelievers who can and do understand the gospel.
ha. It is a fact, proven by the articles themselves. In fact, the articles prove that YOUR theory is wrong.
Yes, they do prove that your claims about unbelievers is false.
FreeGrace2 said:
Are you really not aware of this verse?
Matt 5:44 - but I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you.
James 4:4 - You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James wrote to saved people. Those who take up "friendship with the world" become "enemies of God".
What isn't clear about that?
What is your point?
Are you really not aware of this verse?
Matt 5:44 - but I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you.
Did I need to? You rarely even answer any of my questions.
James 4:4 - You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James wrote to saved people. Those who take up "friendship with the world" become "enemies of God".
What isn't clear about that?
What is your point?
FreeGrace2 said:
Are you aware that believers can function from their sinful human nature and have a carnal mind? What Paul wrote was directly to believers.
Rom 8:9 - You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
OK, what is your point here? Believers live with the Holy Spirit in them. Though not specifically mentioned here, Paul wrote elsewhere that believers are commanded to be FILLED with the Spirit in Eph 5:18, and to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.
How do you think all these commands relate to Rom 8:9?
Are you aware that believers can function from their sinful human nature and have a carnal mind? What Paul wrote was directly to believers.
I did.
Rom 8:9 - You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
OK, what is your point here? Believers live with the Holy Spirit in them. Though not specifically mentioned here, Paul wrote elsewhere that believers are commanded to be FILLED with the Spirit in Eph 5:18, and to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.
How do you think all these commands relate to Rom 8:9?
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you, or don't you, have any verses that says that God changes the heart so man can believe?
Nope. You are going to have to specifically point out the words where regeneration precedes belief here. Or that God changes heart so man can believe.
I am not seeing it. The message from Ananias was about how Paul would see again. Remember, Paul had 3 hungry days to think about the FACT that Jesus appeared to him and spoke to him and commanded what he should do.
The Bible does NOT make clear WHEN Paul did believe in Jesus as the Messiah. I don't speculate.
Do you, or don't you, have any verses that says that God changes the heart so man can believe?
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Nope. You are going to have to specifically point out the words where regeneration precedes belief here. Or that God changes heart so man can believe.
I am not seeing it. The message from Ananias was about how Paul would see again. Remember, Paul had 3 hungry days to think about the FACT that Jesus appeared to him and spoke to him and commanded what he should do.
The Bible does NOT make clear WHEN Paul did believe in Jesus as the Messiah. I don't speculate.
Anything that a person trusts in, he believes in, and faith is believing. The gospel is a faith issue.
I have already proven that Romans has reference to the regenerate persons verse 6 & 7 - Among whom ye also ye are the called of Jesus Christ, to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Paul is speaking about some of those that were called to be saints who had backslid. In verse 18-21 saying "that which may be known of God is MANIFEST in them". God is a Spirit, and the things that may be known of God, are also spiritual, and the natural man that has not been born of the Spirit in the new birth cannot discern the things of the Spirit.
Grace2, post: 4909772, member: 304922"]You need to quit hiding behind your opinions just because the verses refute your theology.[/QUOTE]
I could say the same thing to you and it would be true.
FreeGrace2 said:
The gospel is a trust issue. It actually begins with trusting that God exists. Rom 1:19-21. And NO ONE has any excuse for not believing (trusting) that.
The gospel is a trust issue. It actually begins with trusting that God exists. Rom 1:19-21. And NO ONE has any excuse for not believing (trusting) that.
If you have faith in something, that means you TRUST that something. Synonymous.
Thanks for "proving" the obvious. But everyone knows that.
I admit that you may be smarter than I am, but I am smart enough to know that the scriptures teach
If a person has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they have a spiritual nature (not personality). Ha! If a person does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they are none of God's .
Your comment was on the previous verses in Romans 1, that I quoted to relate the context of verses 19 & 20, so, why did you not comment on the entire post?
Dear FreeGrace2,
Seek to be guided by all of scripture in it's Harmonious Song.
It is not beneficial to sing to your own tune with selective scriptures while at the same time rejecting or ignoring other scriptures that self-correct for our own Good and Blessing.
This is why i have asked you = "Where does faith to believe on Salvation come from?" = according to the Word...........
Seek to be guided by all of scripture in it's Harmonious Song.
It is not beneficial to sing to your own tune with selective scriptures while at the same time rejecting or ignoring other scriptures that self-correct for our own Good and Blessing.
This is why i have asked you = "Where does faith to believe on Salvation come from?" = according to the Word...........
FreeGrace2 said:
The accurate term is natures, not personalities. Those with 2 personalities are described as schizophrenic. That is a mental illness.
If I am, as you "admit", smarter than you, then if you are "smart enough" how come we aren't on the same page here?
The accurate term is natures, not personalities. Those with 2 personalities are described as schizophrenic. That is a mental illness.
Maybe my background is just somewhat different than yours.
If I am, as you "admit", smarter than you, then if you are "smart enough" how come we aren't on the same page here?
Are you laughing at the FACT that believers have a divine nature in them? Since the Holy Spirit dwells in believers, isn't that a divine nature in us? Why do you laugh, or mock, whatever it is?
FreeGrace2 said:
Thanks for "proving" the obvious. But everyone knows that.
So, re-phrase all of what you are referring to, and I will reply.
Thanks for "proving" the obvious. But everyone knows that.
When I respond to a poster, I go through their post line by line. I make comments where needed. And sometimes there are sentences and even whole paragraphs that are so twisted and messed up, I just ignore them.
So, re-phrase all of what you are referring to, and I will reply.
I quite agree!
Do you really believe this? Do you believe that there are verses that are the opposite of other verses? By that, I mean, do you think there are verses that contradict other verses?
If you do, then I see no reason to continue discussing. I believe the Bible is totally harmonious. I even strongly disagree with the scholars who talk about "tension" in the Bible. That is nonsense.
I have already told you, the heart. Do you know what the "heart" refers to?
The soul, where the intellect, emotions, personality, etc all exist.
Our faith comes from our intellect. Would you like Scripture for this?
2 Tim 3:15 - and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
You may be smarter than myself in the english language, but do not get all prideful, you are not smarter than I am on interpreting the scriptures correctly.
Not at all, I was laughing at my lack of knowledge in the english language.