Christians are Israel
- Thread starter Bookends
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
yep. jewish christians..as apposed to gentile christians. he was writing a letter to his bretheren, who were scattered. Gentiles were not scattered. they were living in their perspective cities. it was only the jews who were not in their homeland.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
He was also a jew. Thus he would have been part of the "remnant" not part of the aliens who were brought into the promise. so his thinking would be according to his upbringing. and he would have wrote according to that.
Again. John was one of them who asked him when those things would be (when Isreal would be restored and Jesus would return to set up his kingdom) Jesus did not tell them this would not happen. nor did he tell them they had wrong thinking.) He told them it was not for them to know the time or season.
thus it would be foolsih in my mind to think John did not think those very things would take place at some time in the future. And it is amazing God loved him enough to give him a glimpse of that time. Although he still did not tell him when.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me[a] in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Notice. jesus did not tell them he would not do this ever. or that they were wrong. he told them it is not for them to know the time or season when this would take place. God will do it in his own good time under his own authority. He told them they need to worry about the present, not the future. God will send them the HS. thatis all they needed to know. And jesus left immediately after. so all these people would have still thought God was still going to restor isreal and set up his kingdom.. There would be no reason not to. John would still have this in mind when writing revelation. there is no reason to think any different in my mind
Notice. jesus did not tell them he would not do this ever. or that they were wrong. he told them it is not for them to know the time or season when this would take place. God will do it in his own good time under his own authority. He told them they need to worry about the present, not the future. God will send them the HS. thatis all they needed to know. And jesus left immediately after. so all these people would have still thought God was still going to restor isreal and set up his kingdom.. There would be no reason not to. John would still have this in mind when writing revelation. there is no reason to think any different in my mind
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there's no difference ...at all.
believing jews are christians.
believing gentiles are christians.
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one church, one people of God....ONE WAY.
NO GAP.
unbelieving jews are cut off.
unbelieving gentiles are not grafted in.
either one can be grafted in by FAITH in CHRIST ALONE.
there are no loose ends from the Old Covenant.
jews today are not ancient israelites.
most of them are gentiles whose ancestors converted to Talmudic Judaism in 700AD...particularly the Zionists
any who might be of ancient israelite stock (more likely todays arabs) are still not saved, and will not be saved if they reject Jesus.
no second chances. no special 1,000 years for anything.
there is no other Promise.
no other Name.
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jimmydiggs
Guest
.. but, if the church is Israel, how can I justify my hatred for ay-rabbs? How can I justify starving out the Palestinians?
only a remnant of israel was/will be saved.
why are we looking for anything else?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
better yet. There is no jew or gentile. This the church can not be isreal.
I am promised an eternity in heaven. not anything else. isreal was given promises which were never given to me.
And again, Why did you ignore the fact that only jewish Christians are scattered? Gentile christians were not scattered. they were at home..
Opinion.
Ype they are cut off. But Paul makes it clear. when the time of the gentiles are complete. they will all be saved, and no longer cut off.
And again. Jesus corrected the disciples EVERY time they made a mistake. why did he not correct them when they asked when he would restor isreal and his kingdom?
Your right, there is no other promise. Only the few which always was.
as for jews today? I do not have to know who they are. God does. thats all that matters. If he said he will restor them. Then who am I to argue who they are and whether or not God will do it. You seem to be the one arguing, not me.
And your right, they will not be saved, if they reject jesus, But God says in the OT and in the new, that one day they will all repent turn to God and be saved. why are you so against this?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Only a remnant will be saved until the fullness of the gentiles has come. then all isreal will be saved.
Do you think I am looking for this? I am not. I am worried about those I can get to to bring them to Christ, not when God will restor isreal. As Jesus told John, it was not for him to know the time or season of when this will happen. we need to worry about today.
But I am also not going to reject the fact that if God said it will happen, it will. It is what makes God God. he can tell the future, and when the world sees his prophesies happen. They have further proof he is God.
Why do you think every nation will come to Christ and worship him.. Because they see the things God said would happen, they will be witnesses to those things (the ones who were saved and endured till the end)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
And no he did not restore them
they are not in Isreal
They do not posses Abraham's land
They are still in sin
they still reject their messiah
so how can you say he has already restored them?
no, blindness happened (partially for the reason that) the gentiles were to be brought in..
they were. Paul was sent. that was 2000 years ago. if the veil remains, it's because they refuse to believe.
when they turn to Christ, the veil is removed.
Jerusalem got 40 years to repent. then she was leveled. just as prophesied.
the elect obtained it and the rest were hardened. due to unbelief.
it's over.
NO GAPS.
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jimmydiggs
Guest
By using them as an instrument of death, like America does already. To so many dispys, Jews are just a chess piece. They're expendable.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Paul did not say they were given 40 years. He said they were blinded in part until the fulness of the gentiles has come
news flash. the fulness of the gentiles has not come yet. They STILL control Jerusalem. And they STILL are the majority of the church.
You can keep saying no gap all you want. You will not convince me. you have shown absolutely no proof there is no gap. only speculation. And youi did not help yourself saying paul said they only had 40 years.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol./ Like God. I am wishing that no one (jew, arab, or any other religion or culture) would perish, but every one of them would come to Christ.
CHRIST IS THE FULFILLMENT.
He was and is the restoration, the reformation.
His is King now, His kingdom is not of this world.
the jews who believed became christians.
the gentiles who believed became christians.
same thing since then. ONE GOSPEL FOR ALL.
all those promises made to Abraham were made to him and his SEED SINGULAR < CHRIST.
look it up in the LXX - seed singular.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
ONE SEED - Christ. and all who believe are His. in Him.
the land is now eternity.
jerusalem is now heavenly.
israel is now the church.
the church is His body, the temple.
the Kingdom was taken from unfaithful israel, and given to faithful israel and the gentiles who were grafted into faithful israel < CHURCH.
if jews reject Jesus they're going to hell. same for gentiles < rich man and lazarus.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
News flash. Isreal does not have to be pure blood.
In the old ways of customs. A child who was born of a father who was born of a father who could be traqced back to abraham isaac and jacob through jacobs 12 sons is a natural child of isreal.
Isaac married a gentile. Jacob married a gentile I am sure the 12 sons married gentiles. The northern tribes were intermixed, thus why the jews called them half breeds. Davids grandmother was a gentile I can go on and on.
anyone who is born who can trace his ancestry back to the 12 sons of isreal, which are pure blood or not. would be a child of isreal.. And he does not have to trace it back. God KNOWS who they are!
In the old ways of customs. A child who was born of a father who was born of a father who could be traqced back to abraham isaac and jacob through jacobs 12 sons is a natural child of isreal.
Isaac married a gentile. Jacob married a gentile I am sure the 12 sons married gentiles. The northern tribes were intermixed, thus why the jews called them half breeds. Davids grandmother was a gentile I can go on and on.
anyone who is born who can trace his ancestry back to the 12 sons of isreal, which are pure blood or not. would be a child of isreal.. And he does not have to trace it back. God KNOWS who they are!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I give up. You will never understand. I have no clue why I keep trying to explain things to you.
If God said it will happen. IT WILL. Why you are so bent against God fulfilling his promise of restoring isreal to their land is beyond me.. Do you think it makes you more Godly?? why do you have so much hate for these people? and those who do not agree with you?
Isreal is not the church, Paul tells us this in romans 11. He separates believing jews (the remnant) from believing gentiles (those grafted in) why would paul do this if it were not so.
he also tells us not to be so proud in our being grafted in. As there will come a time when he will restor isreal and they all will be saved.. There is a reason he said they (isreal) are to be beloved for the promises, andf tells us these promises are irrevocable. Even though they are hated for the gospel (since they at this time reject it) Why would he tell us these things if they were not so.
Again, this is not a salvation issue, you make it that. Not God. this is God keeping his promise to abraham. The land belongs to him, by inheritance, it still belongs to his children. He did not promise Abraham eternal land, he promised him physical land. Abraham knew he would get the eternal promise, that is why he was saved before he even was given this promise.