Christmas is in March, not Decemeber

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This is the abstract to the paper on Academia. Academia is a free and secure online platform. These signs, "in the sun, moon, and stars" were real and the same ones detailed in the Talmud. This belief is as old as the Talmud and maybe goes back to the days of Moses as well as the Jewish Creation blessing of the Sun recited every 28 years.


According to a Jewish tradition from the Book of Genesis, as detailed in the Babylonian Talmud Berakhot 59b, the Sun, Moon, and stars were precisely aligned on the Fourth Day of Creation. Today, during the spring in the Northern Hemisphere, Jews recite a special blessing every twenty-eight years on a Wednesday to honor Creation and thank the Lord for the Sun. Some modern rabbis believe that the recurrence of this rare alignment signifies an opportune time for the arrival of the Messiah. Similarly, in Luke 21:25-28, Jesus instructed His followers to watch for signs in the Sun, Moon, and stars preceding His Second Advent. The next verse, Luke 21:29-31, indicates that these signs will begin in the spring. This could also be applied to the First Advent and should be considered. Around the Nativity on March 22, 5 BCE, a celestial alignment at the March equinox involving the Sun, Moon, and stars occurred, echoing the verse in Berakhot 59b. Evidence from NASA, NOAA, and the modern software Fourmilab, used by the Harvard Math Department, supports a heavenly recurrence akin to the Talmud’s Creation Alignment. This event happened one Passover before Herod died in 4 BCE, a timeframe that most conservative theologians agree on. These celestial signs in the Sun and Moon (a total lunar eclipse and possible Blood Moon) match the only primary source for the Star of Bethlehem: The Chinese observation of a comet (the signs in the stars). Note: the word 'alignment' in the thesis title refers to a chronological order (i.e., Fourth day of Creation in the book of Genesis), not a celestial one (i.e., Planetary Alignments found in Babylonian astrology).

AA
 
2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
That's one speculation. I've read elsewhere that the Lord's birthday might have been in the fall.

I wonder why God didn't say specifically? I would have thought He would want us to celebrate on the correct day.


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Did you read the paper? The Talmud says the Jewish Patriarchs were born in Nisan and died in Nisan. We know the latter to be true. The Talmud is the Oral Law handed down by God since Moses--so yes, God had a say in at least the birth of the Jewish Patriarchs. The question is, was Jesus a Jewish Patriarch? This paper is loaded with primary sources and reflects a widespread belief among Christians in Africa around 200 AD. The 5 BC comet is the only primary source for the Star of Bethlehem. If the ancients weren't writing about it, they either didn't see it or didn't care about it.
 
Arizonian_Apostle said:
Y'all are celebrating Christmas 4 months too soon. Jesus was born in March around the equinox. It's about Creation in Judaism.
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I was in the Air Force for 20 years. I was on deployments much of the time. I raised four kids. When I was deployed during Christmas we celebrated Christ's birthday when I returned home. The day we celebrated wasn't important. That we celebrated the birthday of Jesus Christ was a blessing. Which day didn't matter. Jesus Christ is timeless. He's God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Mary certainly gave birth to Jesus on a specific day. That's the birth we celebrate with Christmas. was he born on Dec 25? Was he born on the day you intimate? Does it matter with regards to when we celebrate?

No.
 
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Arizonian_Apostle said:
Did you read the paper? The Talmud says the Jewish Patriarchs were born in Nisan and died in Nisan. We know the latter to be true. The Talmud is the Oral Law handed down by God since Moses--so yes, God had a say in at least the birth of the Jewish Patriarchs. The question is, was Jesus a Jewish Patriarch? This paper is loaded with primary sources and reflects a widespread belief among Christians in Africa around 200 AD. The 5 BC comet is the only primary source for the Star of Bethlehem. If the ancients weren't writing about it, they either didn't see it or didn't care about it.
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You know, with all the Sabbath keepers trying to ruin the forum, I think we have more serious things to contend with. We also don't know what Jesus looked like even though people keep shoving the shroud of Turin. For that matter, we do not know what the disciples looked like but people guess about Paul all the time.

People also go on and on about the star and keep thinking the wise men showed up at the same time as the shepherds. For that matter, the Bible does not say there were 3 wise men. So that's not true. etc etc

You will be relieved to know you are far from the first person to try and squabble about what day Jesus was born, down to the last minute. We don't actually have to know that in order to accept Christ as our Savior.
 
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Arizonian_Apostle said:
Did you read the paper? The Talmud says the Jewish Patriarchs were born in Nisan and died in Nisan. We know the latter to be true. The Talmud is the Oral Law handed down by God since Moses--so yes, God had a say in at least the birth of the Jewish Patriarchs. The question is, was Jesus a Jewish Patriarch? This paper is loaded with primary sources and reflects a widespread belief among Christians in Africa around 200 AD. The 5 BC comet is the only primary source for the Star of Bethlehem. If the ancients weren't writing about it, they either didn't see it or didn't care about it.
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the talmud....:eek:

run away...
 
Tall_Timbers said:
I was in the Air Force for 20 years. I was on deployments much of the time. I raised four kids. When I was deployed during Christmas we celebrated Christ's birthday when I returned home. The day we celebrated wasn't important. That we celebrated the birthday of Jesus Christ was a blessing. Which day didn't matter. Jesus Christ is timeless. He's God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Mary certainly gave birth to Jesus on a specific day. That's the birth we celebrate with Christmas. was he born on Dec 25? Was he born on the day you intimate? Does it matter with regards to when we celebrate?

No.
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Hello Tall_Timbers, thanks for the response and for your years of service. Did you celebrate Easter the same way as you did Christmas when you were deployed?

AA
 
gb9 said:
the talmud....:eek:

run away...
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I guarantee that any Bible reference book in your personal library includes references to the Talmud. The only way to understand Jewish law and customs is to understand the Talmud, and why and when it was composed. Matthew 5:17 "Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it."
 
Arizonian_Apostle said:
I guarantee that any Bible reference book in your personal library includes references to the Talmud. The only way to understand Jewish law and customs is to understand the Talmud, and why and when it was composed. Matthew 5:17 "Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abolish it."
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what does the talmud say about the Lord Jesus????
 
pinebeach said:
You know, with all the Sabbath keepers trying to ruin the forum, I think we have more serious things to contend with. We also don't know what Jesus looked like even though people keep shoving the shroud of Turin. For that matter, we do not know what the disciples looked like but people guess about Paul all the time.

People also go on and on about the star and keep thinking the wise men showed up at the same time as the shepherds. For that matter, the Bible does not say there were 3 wise men. So that's not true. etc etc

You will be relieved to know you are far from the first person to try and squabble about what day Jesus was born, down to the last minute. We don't actually have to know that to accept Christ as our Savior.
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Three? When did I say three wise men? The Magi--notice I said Magi, not wise men--did not show up at the same time, and I celebrate my Sabbaths in a Catholic church. The Nativity is important right down to the last detail. There are only 60 to 70 percent of Americans who identify as Christians--that number is declining--I can not think of a time when that number falls below 40 percent, but at this rate, it will. Worse, of the 60 to 70 percent who do identify as Christians, many do not believe in the Nativity narratives of Matthew and Luke or a virgin birth. Yes, all of this matters.

AA
 
gb9 said:
what does the talmud say about the Lord Jesus????
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I know where you're going with this. The Talmud is composed of many books. Some parts are from the Oral traditions handed down by God, and others are commentaries written by several different Rabbis. Some of what was written was written because they were human. I can assure you that the parts handed down by God were what Jesus came to fulfill. Note: It was written between 200 and 600 AD, at a time when Jews were under great distress from pagan Rome at first, and from the Christian church/state later. Much of what we know about ancient Jewish law, the laws Jesus obeyed, is explained in the Talmud.

AA
 
Arizonian_Apostle said:
I know where you're going with this. The Talmud is composed of many books. Some parts are from the Oral traditions handed down by God, and others are commentaries written by several different Rabbis. Some of what was written was written because they were human. I can assure you that the parts handed down by God were what Jesus came to fulfill. Note: It was written between 200 and 600 AD, at a time when Jews were under great distress from pagan Rome at first, and from the Christian church/state later. Much of what we know about ancient Jewish law, the laws Jesus obeyed, is explained in the Talmud.

AA
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so, you know where i am going with this. o k, well, i am going out of this conversation, you might say i am burning out,,, our bowing out.

good luck.
 
gb9 said:
the talmud....:eek:

run away...
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gb9 said:
so, you know where i am going with this. o k, well, i am going out of this conversation, you might say i am burning out,,, our bowing out.

good luck.
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gb9 said:
so, you know where i am going with this. o k, well, i am going out of this conversation, you might say i am burning out,,, our bowing out.

good luck.
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Tall_Timbers said:
I don't remember if I missed any Easters, but if I did, then Yes.
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Thus, Easter wasn't different from Christmas? Christ rose on the third day of Passover (Nisan 17) as foretold in prophecy. Christ was also born on Nisan 17, 5 BC, or March 25 on the Julian calendar.
 
Arizonian_Apostle said:
Thus, Easter wasn't different from Christmas? Christ rose on the third day of Passover (Nisan 17) as foretold in prophecy. Christ was also born on Nisan 17, 5 BC, or March 25 on the Julian calendar.
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Please take a look at the link on page 25.
https://www.academia.edu/127340495/...Jewish_Springtime_Perspective_on_the_Nativity

(I would consider conceived, but prefer the former). This was 3 days after the March equinox, on a Wednesday, the day God Created the Sun, Moon, and stars, Genesis 1. Further, 2 days after a total lunar Passover eclipse (possible blood moon), a sign of coming redemption for the Jews. All of this while the Chinese observed and recorded a comet — the only primary source for the Star of Bethlehem.
 
Arizonian_Apostle said:
Three? When did I say three wise men? The Magi--notice I said Magi, not wise men--did not show up at the same time, and I celebrate my Sabbaths in a Catholic church. The Nativity is important right down to the last detail. There are only 60 to 70 percent of Americans who identify as Christians--that number is declining--I can not think of a time when that number falls below 40 percent, but at this rate, it will. Worse, of the 60 to 70 percent who do identify as Christians, many do not believe in the Nativity narratives of Matthew and Luke or a virgin birth. Yes, all of this matters.

AA
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When did I say you said three? Trying paying attention. I was simply posting some of the other things people think that are wrong. Take it easy, no one died.

I have come to the point where I don't care what a person thinks they have to do in order to 'worship'. Sabbath? Well good on yah. Say hi to Moses for me. People want to make it all about themself. I do this and I do that and I wear this or that or sing in a special way. A pox on all of it.

What matters, is knowing Christ as your Savior. EVERY day is a worship day if you know Him.
 
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