Common Denominator

[Patnubay]

Well thanks for an honor which I am definitely NOT.
If I am understanding you correctly, our confession comes from the heart, for out of the heart the mouth speaks.
The heart speaks from a renewed state (new birth).
True, we are saved and secure by His death and Resurrection, He has given us the eyes of faith that we are sinners and Jesus died and rose from the dead to rescue us. That conviction remains with us just as the new birth remains.
Is this what you are referring to?

Precisely. He has given us the "eyes of faith" to acknowledge that we are sinners and that "conviction remains" in us. And as this new birth begins, new "convictions" will manifest and changes in us begin. How we interpret the Word as manifested in us will have no effect on the original conviction we had that we are sinners and needed Christ to rescue us.

In post #26

it is by faith we do these things, not salvation

The above post somewhat defined my point. We have nothing to do with our salvation. It is by faith that we argue on issues I previously mentioned in the OP. The idea is, whatever it is that we disagree about will have no bearing on our salvation because the "original conviction" remains in us.

 

[pottersclay]

but sin cannot be forgiven if it is practiced. Such as idolatry.

 

[Patnubay]

It is not enough to believe on Jesus. You must believe on the Jesus of the bible not the one you create in your own vain imagination we see that in Romans 1. That is what Romans 10 clarifies. Belief is a two way street. We know Christ and most importantly He knows us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hi Roger,

First, I believe Jesus is enough for us to get saved and second, the Jesus that is being discussed is the Jesus who died on the cross for our sins, the One sent by God the Father. Any other jesus is out.

PS, Funny, in the Philippines, some parents named their sons ,jesus, and when they get mad at their sons, they swear at them using the name they gave. Ridiculous.

 

[Patnubay]

I don't believe they will....but many like to insert themselves and what they can do into the equation.....my bible is clear...believe and acknowledge Jesus by faith = eternal salvation, sealing, sanctification and justification.....while presently possessing eternal life that cannot be lost!

Big Amen to that, brother

 

[Patnubay]

If one believes it can be "taken back," then he/she believes it is up to him/her to "do" in order to stay saved. The Gospel is a Gospel of God's grace. If we don't understand grace, that we are saved only by the faith God provides us through His grace, that Christ's death and resurrection are all-sufficient for salvation and eternal life, then we don't understand the Gospel, and there is at least a chance we are not saved. How can that be? Not believing the whole of the Gospel of grace means we have not believe the truth. That's why we care.

But try to think about it. If he had his salvation and just afraid that it would be taken back if he does not do good, it didn't really matter, did it? We try to do good because God is good. Both groups are trying to do good.
If after being saved, the revelation he received is try your best to be good to retain your salvation, then so be it.

Failure to believe any part of the Bible is a failure to understand God's word. Failing to understand God's word is again, a reason to question if one actually knows the truth, or some manmade doctrine. There is only one Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). He lives forever to make intercession for us (Hebrews 7:25). He assures us that whatever we ask in His name, He will do (John 14:13, 14). And King Saul got in a lot of hot water with God trying to contact the dead (1 Samuel 28). Praying to the saints is contraindicated by Scripture.

Think about it. Are you saying if we fail to understand God's Word, it will affect our salvation. How is it different from saying " we have something to do to our salvation?"

Paul laid out very specific guideliness for church leadership to Timothy and Titus in his pastoral letters. Anything outside of those guidelines is unbiblical.

Just remember the disagreement of Paul and Peter. And remember, you and I both believe Paul and Peter are both saved.

Again, biblical guidelines call for immersion.

Would that really affect our salvation. Remember the thief to whom Jesus said, " Assuredly, you will be with Me in paradise". He didn't get baptized.

We need to be able to communicate consequences to the unbeliever. He/she needs proper information that will make them amenable to the Gospel.

I truly believe that if he can sincerely and honestly accept Jesus as his savior and repent his sins, he is no longer an unbeliever.

Man-made ideas are the enemy of the Gospel, and we who believe are not affected by them. But our job isn't just to be satisfied in our own gift of God's grace, but help others understand it so they, too, can receive it.

But don't you think once they get saved, the Holy Spirit will guide them to whatever is the right interpretation of the Bible? Should we rely on ourselves or the Holy Spirit?

I truly believe micro managing fellow Christians is the major cause of misunderstanding

 

[Patnubay]

The reason is because when you put your faith and trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will also put your trust into doing what He said to do, and be guided by the Holy Spirit to walk properly in the faith.

If a person does not follow what the Lord Jesus Christ said then they are following a different Jesus that the Apostle Paul said will not lead to eternal life. For we are called to follow and abide in Him and His words !!!

I think the problem is not following what Jesus said. the real problem is how we interpret what Jesus said. When Jesus on the Cross said, "This is your mother", we take it as, He is asking His disciple John to take care of His mother because He is leaving and going back to the Father. The Catholic believe , Jesus made Mary the mother of the world.

" Glass half full and glass half empty "?

 

[Patnubay]

Is Salvation, being forgiven?

Not necessarily, in my opinion. Christ has to be there.

 

[Patnubay]

but sin cannot be forgiven if it is practiced. Such as idolatry.

Good point. But only Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. And this is in another OP, I supposed.

 

[valiant]

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

Romans 10:9-10(NKJV)

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do we care when one believes his salvation can be taken back?

You may not care, but there are millions of struggling souls who do care, and for whom finding the great Biblical truth of eternal security brings great peace and joy and spiritual growth. Knowing the power of Satan I care (even if he is restricted by God).

Why do we care when one believes he can pray to God thru Mary?

Because praying to Mary can lead to great poverty of spirit, and even heresy?

Why do we care what kind of leadership hierarchy his church has?

I don't, as long as it is a godly leadership.

Why do we care if one is baptized thru immersion or sprinkle?

I don't, but what I do care about is those who see baptism as a necessity for salvation, and those who are misled into believing that they are Christians because they have been baptised..

Why do we care how the world ends?

I don't.

Do we really believe these man-made ideas will affect our salvation?

the ones I have commented on can certainly affect our spiritual progress, and in at least one case a person's salvation.

Methinks you are too glib. One wonders why God wrote the Scriptures?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

but sin cannot be forgiven if it is practiced. Such as idolatry.

What does that even mean, "sin ... practiced." Is there a meter running out there somewhere, and when it gets to a certain number or hash mark, God says, "Oh, nope. Too much. You lost it."?

What you said here is the kind of statement is made all the time by the "works-save" crowd, but you never explain what you mean. You leave it to the imagination. Maybe we're supposed to got out and buy a clicker like the movie attendants used to have to make sure they didn't oversell the theater. It makes as much sense as anything else you've said.

Do you really think God would establish such a game of life and not tell us the rules? Do you think God is so capricious and arbitrary that He would expect a race of beings whose " ... every intent of the thoughts of his heart [is] only evil continually" to suddenly, in their own strength, "do right" simply because the death of Christ on the cross only covers their past sins?

This is what you guys teach. You may claim, "Oh, no, that's not what I said," but the truth is, that's exactly what is posted on here every single day.

It is the heresy of Satan, not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Anyone who would teach such drivel truly needs to look at the "relationship" they supposedly have with Jesus, because they are not clearly hearing His words.

 

[ember]

So, even though you say, "Yes"..... your post declares you really mean, "No, not unless you also meet some other qualifications... and then keep those qualifications up-to-date."

What the heck does "keep the faith" mean to you? SPECIFICALLY, in day-to-day living?

yeah you know, I have disagreed with Kenneth plenty in these forums...but I am paying better attention and that is not what he is saying

he is simply saying that if we have true faith, we will heed the words of our Savior and we will WALK in them

that, is completely in accord with the words of Christ Himself

I think that is what he is saying...I guess he can correct me if I misunderstand

 

[Patnubay]

You may not care, but there are millions of struggling souls who do care, and for whom finding the great Biblical truth of eternal security brings great peace and joy and spiritual growth. Knowing the power of Satan I care (even if he is restricted by God).



Because praying to Mary can lead to great poverty of spirit, and even heresy?



I don't, as long as it is a godly leadership.



I don't, but what I do care about is those who see baptism as a necessity for salvation, and those who are misled into believing that they are Christians because they have been baptised..



I don't.




the ones I have commented on can certainly affect our spiritual progress, and in at least one case a person's salvation.

Methinks you are too glib. One wonders why God wrote the Scriptures?

I don't think you get the point. Try to understand the message. It is not what I care. ​And by the way, Spiritual progress comes after salvation and there will be none without it.

 

[crossnote]

yeah you know, I have disagreed with Kenneth plenty in these forums...but I am paying better attention and that is not what he is saying

he is simply saying that if we have true faith, we will heed the words of our Savior and we will WALK in them

that, is completely in accord with the words of Christ Himself

I think that is what he is saying...I guess he can correct me if I misunderstand

as long as we understand it is not our obedience that saves us but His.

Romans 5:19 (KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We are made righteous by His obedience.

 

[Patnubay]

So Faith is required for salvation and sanctification.

I think the order should be : Faith is required for Salvation and only after salvation then one will be Sanctified.

Sanctification[N][T][E] Bible Study Tool . com
The generic meaning of sanctification is "the state of proper functioning." To sanctify someone or something is to set that person or thing apart for the use intended by its designer.

1. Dictionary.com
2. Meaning "to render holy or legitimate by religious sanction" is from c.1400; transferred sense of "to render worthy of respect" is from c.1600. Related: Sanctified; sanctifying. sanctify in the Bible Expand.

 

[Patnubay]

No we are not in agreement because you still have salvation before doing the will of God in our lives, as everything in our faith in Jesus comes before salvation which includes as you say living holy.

Can you please elaborate more on this. Is it possible to live Holy before salvation? If I could live "holy" why do I need salvation from Christ? I can just live based on Law, can't I? Isn't the Holy Spirit the One who enables us to live Holy?

 

[ember]

as long as we understand it is not our obedience that saves us but His.

Romans 5:19 (KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We are made righteous by His obedience.

I agree...we have no righteousness of or from ourselves

The more you reflect on this, the more you can only give thanks!

However, we are called to walk in the light...I am sure most would agree

 

[valiant]

I don't think you get the point. Try to understand the message. It is not what I care. ​And by the way, Spiritual progress comes after salvation and there will be none without it.

oh I get the point. It just happens not to be the whole truth. Don't you consider the spiritual progression to be part of salvation?

and try not to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.

 

[Patnubay]

oh I get the point. It just happens not to be the whole truth. Don't you consider the spiritual progression to be part of salvation?

and try not to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.

Okay, Grandma, my bad. I won't try to teach you. All I am saying is the point of my OP is not about a declaration of a truth. I was just asking a question, WHY?

Why do Christians bother to argue about OSAS, the culture of worship, Church Polity, Mode of Baptism and Eschatology when the only thing that can save us is ......

And regarding spiritual progress, I do agree spiritual progression is part of salvation but not before salvation. I believe, Faith causes Salvation and Salvation leads to Spiritual progression. In my opinion, spiritual progression happens thru understanding the Word of God and revelation of the Word of God comes only from Holy Spirit who comes in us only after salvation.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I had to look "suck eggs" up.

Thanks people!

 

[Patnubay]

I had to look "suck eggs" up.

Thanks people!

You're not the only one.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Teaching grandmother to suck eggs is an English language saying meaning that a person is giving advice to someone else about a subject about which they already know (and probably more than the first person).[SUP][1][/SUP]

English people are naturally elegant. Americans will say " Don't be a Smart A. "