Compare this, something to think about. Birth and rebirth

[Bookends]

Galatians 1:15
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb (birth)(birth into sin?) and called me through His grace, (saving grace)(I understand this more then saving grace, but its under God's grace that Paul was saved (reborn) in order to preach and teach the gospel). 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,

and

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (physical birth) and the Spirit (spiritual rebirth), he cannot enter the kingdom of God.



I understand some of you may interpret "born of water" to the cleansing blood of Jesus here. But I see a striking resemblance that these two verse could be related by both speaking of physical birth and spiritual birth.

Your thoughts are welcomed. God bless

 

[kenisyes]

I have thought of this also. The earliest Christian evangelical preaching is the doctrine of the "two ways". In summary, we are all born into the Kingdom of the World. We can choose (by accepting what Jesus earned for us) to be born new into the Kingdom of God. Once you know that this was the earliest way to evangelize, you can see that there are many Scriptures supporting and reflecting its use. I agree with you, that this one from John is one of them.

 

[psychomom]

Well, I had never thought of it this way,
so I thank you, Bookends, for the new discussion
I'll have with my hubby today!

-ellie

 

[Indubitably]

Good post. Sound thinking!

 

[Cobus]

Oh boy I hope this comes out GOOD! So First imagine me washing your feet, and while I wash I pray... Lord Jesus, you told me to be humble and wash feet, and I do, I ask Lord, open the hearts, ears and spirits to receive YOUR THRUTH, so they can be blessed with the LIVING WATERS OF YOUR WORD, AMEN!

Bookends, Jesus talkes about a certain kind of WATER, and it is not H2O, and it is not mommy's birth water EITHER. Jesus said to the woman of Samaria.... But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

This water is the WORD OF GOD! This water is administered in several ways, and used for several BLESSINGS, to ENABLE us to be REBORN. This water is the SOURCE of where we are BORN FROM. We are SEPERATED and BAPTIZED in this water, we are FILLED with this water, and we are OVERFLOWING with this water. We also BLESS others with this WATER in to everlasting life!

This is the verse that denotes just how powerful this WATER is.... Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

I just experience how the Word of God, is way more powerful than me. That Word is so ALIVE, so sanctifying, so holy, so cleansing, so blessed and blessing, so filling and complete. When we can put it in a glass and drink it, do you think we will EVER thirst again? Do you think we will EVER NEED anything again? What do you think will FLOW from our bowels like a living waters that springs up into everlasting life? This WATER is GREAT!

Lord I ask this WATER, please give me, Amen!

 

[kenisyes]

Cobus, to add to your interpretation, both blood and water came out from His side on the cross. This was prefigured in the Feast of Tabernacles water pouring, which was actually water and wine pouring (dual pitcher with a divider partition). The wine went through a channel to make a puddle around the altar. The water went down the steps, and is probably the original motivation for Ezekiel's living water flowing from the Temple. New wine of joy to the symbol of heaven, water for the earth from the Temple. We must be born of both to be able to be poured out for the world.

When God made the heavens and the earth, the earth started out coming out of the water. The Feast of Tabernacles water pouring is God's "correction" of the pagan new year's practice of pouring water on the earth as a magic spell to make rain for next year's crops. God makes it living water from us to create new growth and fruitfulness.

 

[Laodicea]

John 3:5 KJV
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christ here referred to water baptism and the renewing of the heart by the Spirit of God.

 

[Bookends]

Cobus, that's an interesting take, but I don't see how you justify that "born of water" is the "Word of God". For one the reference you give is in Ephesians 5 and did Nicodemus have access to this letter? No. Jesus hinted to the fact that Nicodemus should have known what Jesus was talking about in verse 10, "Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?" So what Jesus was speaking of, Nicodemus should have had knowledge of through the old testament. Therefore, I guess we should look in the OT to see if we can find any scripture passage with water and spirit in it, that pertains to eternal life or salvation. Ezekiel 36:24-32 is closest thing you will find.

24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries (typifies the NT Church), and bring you into your own land (typifies what we are earnestly awaiting for today, the new heavens and earth) 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. (typifies and has it's topological fulfillment Christ's redemptive work on the cross) 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you (sounds like spiritual rebirth to me); I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses (cleansed by the blood, 1 John 1:7). I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!” (All this is done for sake of the name of the Lord and His glory).

This passage has to do with the renewal of Israel, in which has it fulfillment after their captivity in Babylon. However we know this restoration wasn't complete and has it's topological fulfillment in Christ, this age, and the age to come. This restoration of that people being typical of our redemption by Christ. Therefore, I draw the conclusion that being "born of water" really refers to God's cleansing us (which comes in the form of our repentance and belief in His atonement by our faith and by His grace) from our first birth in Adam to our second birth into the 2nd Adam, from Satan's family to God's family, which is what IMO, being born again, rebirth, is all about. Thus upon this cleansing in which Christ does through our true and honest repentance and belief or spirit is renewed, we are reborn and sealed by the Holy Spirit, in which the Lord changes our hearts (our transformation process) for His name sake and glory.

No where in the book of John does Jesus or John link "born of water" to God's word, but only of the fact that Nicodemus should have known what Jesus was speaking of through the witness and teaching of the OT. NOT to say that the Word of God doesn't have anything to do with it (rebirth), because it does, but even in the context in John chapter 3 their is no mention of the Word. We need to be cleansed from our first birth, our sinful nature, that was born of water, and then born of the Spirit, and IMO, this is exactly what Jesus was saying. Nicodemus didn't understand it, therefore Jesus further explains in verse 6, That which is born of the flesh is flesh (flesh represents our sinful nature in which we are born into by the 1st Adam), and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. And it's not by the work of man nor man's understanding, in which Jesus also makes clear in the next verse 7 -8, Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8) The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Also the prologue of John book starts off with this very theme of redemption:

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him (our sinful nature). 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Conclusion: This is how I reached to my current conclusion that "born of water" means 2 things, born in sin, spiritually dead, our flesh, sinful nature, the first Adam that needs to be cleansed by Christ in which He also does by the water, water being a metaphor for His blood. In which then we are reborn and place into God's family.There is much to say and I said too much, and there is much debate about what "born of water" means. I'm not saying you are wrong. However, the way you present yourself as if you are always right in your understand of scripture is not desirable to me and saddens me, for I know not to trust myself or anyone, in the sense- fact that we are all fallible. That being said, I love you and wish God's blessing upon you, and I appreciate you zeal for the Lord and His Word. Forgive me Lord of my own errors.

Peace.

 

[webchatter]

Ah yes, & we have those who interpret this to mean that you cannot enter heaven without a full immersion water baptism, no, a Catholic baby sprinkling will not be any good. This is what these verses are being used to promote by some. But I agree the op interpreted it soundly.