Concerning an atheists argument about God

[shrimp]

I very recently got into a discussion with an atheist on twitter who was very convinced that (in his/her words) If God exists, then He must be a bratty child. a murderous God committing and promoting infanticide, rape, genocide, etc. And then proceeded to try and use scripture to promote that view.
I have gone through and read them and find that over half of them are bogus claims and not at all supported by the scriptures given.
After researching a little in this, I found an author and atheist by the name of Richard Dawkins. He actually has a book spewing this garbage full of lies.
My question reads thusly:

Is this the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess. 2:11?

 

[danschance]

It certainly can be. There are some Christians here who were once atheists so there is hope for them.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

What passages did he give you and how did you debunk them?

 

[John_S]

I very recently got into a discussion with an atheist on twitter who was very convinced that (in his/her words) If God exists, then He must be a bratty child. a murderous God committing and promoting infanticide, rape, genocide, etc. And then proceeded to try and use scripture to promote that view.
I have gone through and read them and find that over half of them are bogus claims and not at all supported by the scriptures given.
After researching a little in this, I found an author and atheist by the name of Richard Dawkins. He actually has a book spewing this garbage full of lies.
My question reads thusly:

Is this the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess. 2:11?

Is this the strong delusion - NO. You shouldn't even concern yourself with what atheists say.

An example of a strong delusion would be the Pre-Trib Rapture.
The antichrist will be a strong delusion.
The false prophet will be a strong delusion.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

So only concern yourself with people who agree with you?

 

[John_S]

So only concern yourself with people who agree with you?

1.Virtually NO ONE agrees with me.
2. He asked if this was THE strong delusion. NO it isn't. There are worse delusions that Christians will teach people.
3. I am a fan of the Philadelphia pro sports teams. NO ONE is going to get me to change my mind on that. If you try, you will be wasting your time. Similarly, arguing with an atheist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or whatever, is a waste of time.
I would prefer arguing with Christians who preach their brand of nonsense - like the Pre-Trib Rapture, the ridiculous nonsense known as "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS), the ridiculous nonsense that reading 16th Century English makes a person "holier" - and several other ridiculous doctrines passed off as Christianity.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

1.Virtually NO ONE agrees with me.
2. He asked if this was THE strong delusion. NO it isn't. There are worse delusions that Christians will teach people.
3. I am a fan of the Philadelphia pro sports teams. NO ONE is going to get me to change my mind on that. If you try, you will be wasting your time. Similarly, arguing with an atheist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or whatever, is a waste of time.
I would prefer arguing with Christians who preach their brand of nonsense - like the Pre-Trib Rapture, the ridiculous nonsense known as "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS), the ridiculous nonsense that reading 16th Century English makes a person "holier" - and several other ridiculous doctrines passed off as Christianity.

Excellent answer my friend.

 

[shrimp]

In response to IntoTheVoid,

It was not hard to, as you put it, "debunk" the wild claims thrown by the atheists, since they clearly never read the Bible. If they had they would have noticed that they were taking scriptures out of context and putting whatever label they wanted on God to drive people more toward their way of thinking.
An example of this comes from the Pic tweet thrown at me (yes I rewrote it in Word but it is still the same minus a few periods and a vulgar word) :
Is God a Misogynistic, Capricous, Maleviolent, Racist, Homophobic, Genocidal, Murdering Bully; Or Always Kind and Loving? You decide:
Not one of the Ten Commandments forbids rape nor paedophilia.
A selection of bible passages:
Exodus 11:4-7 – Rejoicing in infanticide
Numbers 31:17-18 – Kill all the boys and women who aren’t virgins, then take the virgins for yourselves
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 – A raped virgin must marry the rapist
2 Samuel 12:11-12 – Taking your wife and allowing another to rape her
2 Kings 2:23-24 - Sanctioning death for name calling
Psalm 137:9 - More infanticide, this time smashing them against rocks
Isaiah 13:15-18 – Once again glorifying infanticide and violating women
Matthew 5:17-20 – The Old Testament laws stand
If the above is not enough to prove that God is a ****, feel free to read more, especially Leviticus.
Note that all of these are a few specific verses, they omit the background for each verse and assume that all of it must be God's doing. Also, the only one they got even remotely right is Matthew 5:17-20.
Exodus: Read the first 12 chapters then you'll understand that God took vengeance on the Egyptians for their treatment of the Hebrews and the infanticide Pharaoh ordered his people to do to the Israelites.
Numbers: Again, read the previous scriptures. the Midianites had caused Israel to commit spiritual adultery. In order that the Midianites did not do this again, the boys and non virgin women had to be killed. Also, In order that the Midianites be reconciled back to Israel, the virgins and young girls had to be brought into the company.
Deuteronomy: God demands that restitution be made by the rapist, pay the father his due and marry the woman you now hate because of your own shame and never divorce her because you humiliated her.
2 Samuel: God was punishing David for what he did to Uriah and his wife. God is a righteous judge. He allowed the wives of David to leave him and be with the neighbor. Just as happened to Uriah, except Uriah died. So in a way God was merciful towards David.
2 Kings: The "children" were telling Elisha to die or be taken up to God and calling him a very derogatory name for that time and threatening him with their mob. God saw that their hearts devised evil against his prophet.
Psalm: Read the entire chapter, Babylon had treated God's people terribly. Their destruction was foretold, as was the Tenth Plague in Exodus. But neither Babylon nor Pharaoh turn from their wickedness.
Isaiah: This is speaking about the Lord's Day, when the Devil's people (the people who are/will reject God and take up arms against Him) will know the full wrath of God. How He avenges the babies killed for evil purposes and the martyrs.
Matthew: Only one of the above passages concerns the Law other than this one. This is the only passage they got right, Jesus did not come and destroy the law, but He fulfilled it. By being perfect, He became the unblemished lamb sacrifice for all sins for all.
Leviticus is something for another thread.
But you get my point.

 

[shrimp]

wow that was a long one for me. i need to learn how to be not long winded.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

No it was fine thank you shrimp. I wasn't sure what verses you were challenged with. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Nick01]

I have a number of fruitful relationships with atheists, who I've had arguments with on a number of this stuff. The reality is, Dawkins is not a theologian, or a biblical scholar. He's guilty of some of the most odorous proof texting, interprets much of what he cites as biblical 'evidence' on the basis of his own presuppositions about what the text says before he reads it, and often sounds like he thinks he is the first person to ever read these texts, and that if people read them, they would prima facie reject Christianity.

The reality is that Christians and Jews have read these texts for thousands of years, interpret them very differently, and most astounding of all, do not murder their children. I wish Dawkinites would actually be curious about what the Scriptures actually say, instead of simply trying to find grappleholds so they can use them as a weapon (thankfully, some fans of Dawkins actually are curious, which is good, it shows they are intellectually curious)

 

[megaman125]

1.Virtually NO ONE agrees with me.
2. He asked if this was THE strong delusion. NO it isn't. There are worse delusions that Christians will teach people.
3. I am a fan of the Philadelphia pro sports teams. NO ONE is going to get me to change my mind on that. If you try, you will be wasting your time. Similarly, arguing with an atheist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, or whatever, is a waste of time.
I would prefer arguing with Christians who preach their brand of nonsense - like the Pre-Trib Rapture, the ridiculous nonsense known as "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS), the ridiculous nonsense that reading 16th Century English makes a person "holier" - and several other ridiculous doctrines passed off as Christianity.

I only half agree with #3. Arguing with false teachers and KJV only cultists is just as unproductive as arguing with atheists, muslims, etc. No debate ever convinces anyone who doesn't have a teachable spirit.

 

[Starcrash]

I very recently got into a discussion with an atheist on twitter who was very convinced that (in his/her words) If God exists, then He must be a bratty child. a murderous God committing and promoting infanticide, rape, genocide, etc. And then proceeded to try and use scripture to promote that view.
I have gone through and read them and find that over half of them are bogus claims and not at all supported by the scriptures given.
After researching a little in this, I found an author and atheist by the name of Richard Dawkins. He actually has a book spewing this garbage full of lies.
My question reads thusly:

Is this the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess. 2:11?

Hardly. If you read about a God that destroyed all the life on Earth for 1) violence, 2) angel DNA, or 3) literally any other reason, and you weren't biased in favor of that God, you would also find him both violent and (in the case of reason #2) genocidal. In fact, with 2.8 million numbered murders and an estimated 25 million, it's not an exaggeration to say that God (if He did actually commit just the murders listed in the bible) was extremely violent.

It's not "garbage full of lies" when it comes straight from the bible. You'll see that every single instance of God's killings are cited with scripture.

 

[Nick01]

Hardly. If you read about a God that destroyed all the life on Earth for 1) violence, 2) angel DNA, or 3) literally any other reason, and you weren't biased in favor of that God, you would also find him both violent and (in the case of reason #2) genocidal. In fact, with 2.8 million numbered murders and an estimated 25 million, it's not an exaggeration to say that God (if He did actually commit just the murders listed in the bible) was extremely violent.

It's not "garbage full of lies" when it comes straight from the bible. You'll see that every single instance of God's killings are cited with scripture.

I will say, angel DNA and the motivation from that to genocide is a new one for me. Care to elaborate?

I'll also flag that you argue that anyone not already biased to believing in God would find him exceedingly violent and genocidal. Ignoring for a moment that your own position is not a bias-free zone to begin with (the a priori label of 'murder' being a case in point), you also beg the question by arguing that all people who are not biased to believe in God would necessarily have to think God is genocidal, in order to show that he is.

How about we wind it back, and actually discuss this more fully. You say 2.8 million people are killed in the Bible, either directly by God or secondarily so, and say that God is exceedingly violent. I'm happy to proceed assuming those numbers are accurate, so I won't contest them. Here are a couple of brief premises for further discussion, and you can come back on those if you like. If you want to have a further discussion, I'm more that willing to add more.

1. There can exist circumstances in which use of violence, in principle, can be justifiably used.
2. A given act of violence, whether physical or symbolic, does not in itself constitute a negative, violent character or individual in general.

 

[Kerry]

Hardly. If you read about a God that destroyed all the life on Earth for 1) violence, 2) angel DNA, or 3) literally any other reason, and you weren't biased in favor of that God, you would also find him both violent and (in the case of reason #2) genocidal. In fact, with 2.8 million numbered murders and an estimated 25 million, it's not an exaggeration to say that God (if He did actually commit just the murders listed in the bible) was extremely violent.

It's not "garbage full of lies" when it comes straight from the bible. You'll see that every single instance of God's killings are cited with scripture.

This not a game. Call of duty will not help you. Only the cross. Get that through your thick skull that evolution has gave you. It is not a game. God has and will kill people. He will use Hailstones the size of volkswagens. Fire from heaven. Haven,t you watched ancient aliens? Even they agree that something is out there, and guess what. IT's God.

 

[Jesusismyrock]

Ok, I'm not sure what's going on here but I'm a christian and there's. toning wrong with playing COD, it doesn't influence violence and if it does, then that person is mentally unstable. It's fake and not real.

 

[Kerry]

Ok, I'm not sure what's going on here but I'm a christian and there's. toning wrong with playing COD, it doesn't influence violence and if it does, then that person is mentally unstable. It's fake and not real.

I'm not sure what you are saying, my Australian friend. Look up Tintin he is Australian as well and can be of help. Starcrash and I go way back and he avoids me at all cost. Because I preach the cross. Its not me that he avoids, its the cross. So what are you saying?

 

[Praus]

He will use Hailstones the size of volkswagens. Fire from heaven. Haven,t you watched ancient aliens? Even they agree that something is out there, and guess what. IT's God.

[video=youtube;iojuBkTiiiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iojuBkTiiiE[/video]

 

[Jesusismyrock]

I wasn't diss agreeing with what was being said, but it's not as though playing COD is a sin. If that's what you were trying to say?
Almost like saying its wrong to watch Harry potter.

 

[Praus]

Almost like saying its wrong to watch Harry potter.

"Warlocks are enemies of God ... and had it been in the Old Testament, Harry Potter would have put to death."

[video=youtube;RSwZJ55g80Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSwZJ55g80Q[/video]