Concerning the gift of tongues

[ocean]

Well it looks like Lamar beat me to the punch.

bode will???

It is not scripture I find to be false but your claims of supernatural powers.

I never claimed any supernatural power. It is your lack of biblical truth that leads you to that assumption.

 

[ocean]

I started to speak in tongues only because I came into a group of Pentecostals who laid hands on me and told me to "move my lips." I was told to start speaking and just let God give me words in a foreign tongue. Ultimately, it seemed like a deception to me, and rejected it, at least for me.

You did good to reject it. Too many just accept something because the 'something' is occurring within a church or a 'teacher' or some other authority figure. We do not find any type of coercion regarding the gift of tongues. Yes, in the Bible we do read where hands
were laid on a person and they were prayed for. This, is not reserved just to receive a spiritual gift however.

The ultimate authority is scripture and the Holy Spirit gives the gift and no manner of mumbling, yelling or whatever, should be a part of that. Frankly, anything that makes you feel uneasy/uncomfortable should be something you step back from. That includes even genuine things that might happen. If a person cannot answer your questions or address the way you feel, if they say things like 'trust me' or whatever, you don't have to do so.

The Holy Spirit does not force Himself on people.

 

[Lamar]

I never claimed any supernatural power. It is your lack of biblical truth that leads you to that assumption.

That is a bold faced lie.

Your most certainly have claimed to have the physical supernatural manifestation of speaking in unknown tongues.

You have stated that you can willfully control this power.

You have stated that your gift is audible (physical), miraculous (supernatural), can be witnessed by others (manifestation) and of the Holy Spirit.

How can you deny that you have made these claims?

 

[PaulThomson]

I was just thinking of that verse in mathew when I saw you posted it, more than one person here wants evidence tom believe.

You and GWH seem to be misunderstanding tongues. They are not a sign given to convince believers. It takes faith to speak in tongues and believe the Holy Spirit is involved in giving the utterance.

1Co 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[ocean]

That is a bold faced lie.

Your most certainly have claimed to have the physical supernatural manifestation of speaking in unknown tongues.

You have stated that you can willfully control this power.

You have stated that your gift is audible (physical), miraculous (supernatural), can be witnessed by others (manifestation) and of the Holy Spirit.

How can you deny that you have made these claims?

Oh I see. You are confused and seem to think I claimed supernatural power because I testify of having the gift of tongues (along with quite a few others here but for some reason (no worries I get it) you decide to attack because I speak the truth)

I don't have supernatural power. The Holy Spirit is the One with power and He does use people to speak through both with tongues, with interpretation and or whatever language someone needs to hear it in. I have never said where or when I might practice this gift though.

I have never stated I control anything. It is obvious you have had more than one conversation with those who attest to speaking in tongues and just jump claim that I am fair game.

What do you think of the gift of teaching? or prophecy? or the ability to have a word of wisdom? or a word of knowledge? or any of the other gifts? Do you hate them all or just tongues in particular?

 

[Lamar]

I don't have supernatural power. The Holy Spirit is the One with power and He does use people to speak through both with tongues, with interpretation and or whatever language someone needs to hear it in. I have never said where or when I might practice this gift though.

I have never stated I control anything. It is obvious you have had more than one conversation with those who attest to speaking in tongues and just jump claim that I am fair game.

1 Corinthians 14:31-33
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
31 For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] one by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged;
32 For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker’s control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary],
33 For He [Who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order. As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God’s people),

You are fooling no one but those who want to be fooled.

 

[Lamar]

What do you think of the gift of teaching? or prophecy? or the ability to have a word of wisdom? or a word of knowledge? or any of the other gifts? Do you hate them all or just tongues in particular?

Your question is clearly disingenuous this can be seen by anyone reading your words.

Your question implied that I hate the gifts of God, I more certainly do not.

What I hate are people claiming the gifts without the least bit of effort to validate their public assertions.

And this is you.

 

[ocean]

1 Corinthians 14:31-33
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
31 For in this way you can give testimony [prophesying and thus interpreting the divine will and purpose] one by one, so that all may be instructed and all may be stimulated and encouraged;
32 For the spirits of the prophets (the speakers in tongues) are under the speaker’s control [and subject to being silenced as may be necessary],
33 For He [Who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order. As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God’s people),

You are fooling no one but those who want to be fooled.

You are fooling no one but those who want to be fooled. What you quote, actually reveals the very gift you seem to despise.

Interesting that it simply cannot be avoided. God's word is truth after all.

 

[randyk]

I discourage faith in fireworks and encourage learning what the Bible teaches,
which is that we must walk by faith (2Cor.5:7) and must not want to prove our faith by means of a sign (Matt.12:39).

I wasn't being like King Herod, wanting to be entertained by a sign. But does God give signs? It would be unbiblical to say He doesn't.

In my circumstance I knew the Bible approved of tongues for some, but I grew weary of this aspect of Pentecostalism, where we are taught that all should speak in tongues and it is a "prayer language."

When I in despair warned God that if He didn't give me a sign from heaven, or I would give up all faith in it, I apologized to God, and said I would happy with just a sign on the earth. True story! At that moment, what looked like a flare--probably a firework, flew up to heaven and then came down to the earth. It was precisely what I had asked for.

Nobody is saying you have to believe this. But if God shows you something you better believe it!

I did not interpret the sign to be God's approval of a "prayer language in tongues for all believers." Rather, I saw it as God's confirmation that some do indeed speak in tongues. I should just leave that to God and the individual so gifted, whether I understand it or not.

 

[TrustandObey]

I don't have supernatural power. The Holy Spirit is the One with power and He does use people to speak through both with tongues, with interpretation and or whatever language someone needs to hear it in. I have never said where or when I might practice this gift though.

I have never stated I control anything.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Have you been given the supernatural ability to speak in a tongue that you have not learned?
Do you have control of this ability?
If you don't have control of your gift of tongues then who does?

The bible states that the person who has the power of tongues also has control of it.
If you have no control then your power may not be of God.

 

[TrustandObey]

In the context of 1Cor 14, what do you think Paul the apostle meant by,

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Does your assembly forbid speaking in tongues?

Not sure how to address your question. Paul is rather clear and straight forward. I have nothing to add to it.

Maybe if you could tell me what you think Paul meant, I could better respond.

On your question of does my assembly forbid speaking in tongues? No.

 

[TrustandObey]

referring to #151
Doesn't matter if anyone ever agrees or disagrees with truth.
It does however expose a persons genuine nature.
Be they truth seekers or merely want their own venom to be accepted as truth?
blessings

Strongly agree. What ResidentAlien states in Post 151 is at the core of this issue.

" Let's see some objective evidence (not babble that anyone can do)"

 

[TMS]

"Tougnes" simply mean another language.

To speak in another language is great when people understand.

God understands every thought before we even speak them.

But when we communicate with each other it is useless unless we can understand each other.

1 Corinthians 14 explains it well.

1Co 14:3-6
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1Co 14:13-17
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So if your speaking in a tougne that no one can understand it is unfruitful,, a waste of time.

 

[PaulThomson]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the idea with regards to speaking in tongues?!

In other words, why does anyone want to speak in tongues, in the first place?!

What's wrong with speaking in plain English?

There is nothing wrong with speaking in plain English. Paul says He would rather speak a few words in an assembly in a known tongue that 10,000 uninterpreted words in an unknown tongue. But on the other hand, in private tongues are my spirit speaking directly to God by he Holy Spirit, without the mind interfering with the communication, and there is great edification to be had from that process.

 

[TrustandObey]

I never claimed any supernatural power. It is your lack of biblical truth that leads you to that assumption.

Have you no shame?

On post 104 you claim that God gave you this supernatural ability immediately after you asked for it.

Then you refer to it as a power on the same post.

And now you say that you have "never" claimed any supernatural power?

I think you have been exposed.

 

[TrustandObey]

"Tougnes" simply mean another language.

To speak in another language is great when people understand.

God understands every thought before we even speak them.

But when we communicate with each other it is useless unless we can understand each other.

1 Corinthians 14 explains it well.

1Co 14:3-6
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1Co 14:13-17
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So if your speaking in a tougne that no one can understand it is unfruitful,, a waste of time.

"Unfruitful"
"A waste of time"
Yes, since their words are not interpreted they don't understand the 10,000 words they spoke in private.

 

[wolfwint]

the gift of tongues seems to be a misunderstood gift by many in the church speaking nonsense or just empty words but what does the gift have to do with the body of Christ? well it is for the edifying and empowering of the believers but it seems to be either a rare gift or just non existent

personally I have only experienced it a few times the real thing that is and if I could tell you what it feels like to experience the real thing well for me it felt like an invisible hand moving my heart like the awesome and mind blowing power of God was being poured into me like I mean poured big time it leaves you stunned in awe of God it fills you with this life and you can feel a fire or surge of power flowing inside you all of a sudden

However I have encountered so many fake tongues as well that I might as well not believe in it but because I believed in it even though I never saw or experienced it before that is what made it possible to experience the real thing believing without seeing for myself.

I also wonder if anyone here does operate in the gift, if so then what does it feel like to you when you speak in tongues and what have you seen it do to those who hear?

Is it not according the teachings from charismatics and Pentecostals that speaking in tongues is the sign, that someone has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
So if someone is not speaking in tongues, then this is the sign that he has not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
But is someone not baptised with the Holy Spirit, he has also not the Holy Spirit.

 

[TMS]

"Unfruitful"
"A waste of time"
Yes, since their words are not interpreted they don't understand the 10,000 words they spoke in private.

When we witness to others
The word need to be understood.

How do our words help people if they are not understood?

1Co 14:26-27 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Done unto edifying.... done to uplift God...

If no one understands, it isn't edifying God.

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

 

[WayneNSO]

Do you think that people start speaking in tongues because of peer pressure? They see others doing it and they come across as more spiritual, so as to not feel inferior they learn to speak in tongues also?

 

[ocean]

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Have you been given the supernatural ability to speak in a tongue that you have not learned?
Do you have control of this ability?
If you don't have control of your gift of tongues then who does?

The bible states that the person who has the power of tongues also has control of it.
If you have no control then your power may not be of God.

Well, you have no excuse then for the way you post in such a nasty manner as you know the Bible talks about controlling the tongue.

Have you no shame?

On post 104 you claim that God gave you this supernatural ability immediately after you asked for it.

Then you refer to it as a power on the same post.

And now you say that you have "never" claimed any supernatural power?

I think you have been exposed.

I have clearly said it is the Holy Spirit who has the power; again, I never said I had any power so why do continue with this deliberate attempt to say I think I have power?

You are a small and very petty individual who continues to hate on me and that's fine. No one is able to stop God or stop the work of
His Spirit.

The Bible exposes those who do not love the truth while you claim to know more than scripture. You could say all that you have said without the name calling and accusations but you did not do so. It seems you might think that you have some kind of power to continue ranting on and at this point it's boring. You offer zero scripture to back up what you say so I don't think you should be taken seriously, but kind of like those gnats people slap at the beach.

I Corinthians 14

14 Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but [b]in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, [c]exhortation, and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification.


6 But now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophecy, or of teaching? 7 Yet even lifeless instruments, whether flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp? 8 For if the trumpet produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? 9 So you too, unless you produce intelligible speech by the tongue, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will just be talking to the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of [d]languages in the world, and none is incapable of meaning. 11 So if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be unintelligible to the one who speaks, and the one who speaks will be unintelligible [e]to me. 12 So you too, since you are eager to possess [f]spiritual gifts, strive to excel for the edification of the church.


13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the mind also. 16 For otherwise, if you bless God [g]in the spirit only, how will the one who occupies the place of the [h]outsider know to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Congratulations. Scripture itself contests your beliefs. I'm not bothering to reply to you again as you have nothing worthy to respond to in how you attack and bluster and again, sans any proof. You are not really attacking me though. It is scripture you deny.