Conditional Salvation

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Rom 6:16-18 puts obedience before salvation.

Rom 6:16 obedience UNTO rightoeousness and the order of events in verses 17,18:
1) servants of sin
2) obeyed from the heart
3) then freed from sin/justified.

no, it doesn't.

ROMANS 6:
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

HAVING BELIEVED, OUR OLD SELF ALREADY CRUCIFIED WITH HIM

7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

ALREADY DEAD, ALREADY FREE

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

ALREADY DEAD THROUGH HIM AND ALSO ALIVE IN HIM

9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

BECAUSE WE ARE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, WE ARE ALREADY FREE WITH HIM

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

REALIZE IT IS TRUE!

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

AND THEREFORE LIVE LIKE IT IS TRUE!

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
39,002
13,911
113
ROMANS 6:
15
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!


NOT UNDER LAW BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, DEAD TO SIN

16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

ALREADY DEAD TO SIN -- WHY LIVE AS THOUGH STILL A SLAVE TO IT?

17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

NO LONGER A SLAVE TO SIN, BUT ALIVE THROUGH FAITH - THE OBEDIENCE OF THE HEART TO THE TRUTH

18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

SET FREE FROM SIN AND SO BECOME SLAVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS

19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY DEAD TO SIN, JUSTIFIED AND FREE IN CHRIST, THEREFORE BRING YOUR BODIES INTO OBEDIENCE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS





 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I am saved by Grace, not by faith or works; BUT, if I don't "sow to the Spirit" I will not "reap eternal life." I think Luther and the other Reformers threw the "baby out with the wash water". This "faith alone" is heresy. And "works alone " is heresy. Salvation is by "GRACE" thru "FAITH", unto "WORKS". Love Hoffco
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am saved by Grace, not by faith or works; BUT, if I don't "sow to the Spirit" I will not "reap eternal life." I think Luther and the other Reformers threw the "baby out with the wash water". This "faith alone" is heresy. And "works alone " is heresy. Salvation is by "GRACE" thru "FAITH", unto "WORKS". Love Hoffco
you contradict yourself

You cant say your saved by faith not works. but then say if you do not work your not saved.


why can't you see this?
 
Mar 28, 2014
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you contradict yourself

You cant say your saved by faith not works. but then say if you do not work your not saved.


why can't you see this?
because we are saved by grace...it happens through faith.....faith without works is dead..... it is the faith that has the value but you can't show the faith without works...and you can't be saved by grace without faith...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
because we are saved by grace...it happens through faith.....faith without works is dead..... it is the faith that has the value but you can't show the faith without works...and you can't be saved by grace without faith...

Again you contradict yourself.

Not to mention, you belittle the power of God. You think he needs us to prove our faith first before he says, ok, your faith is real. I will save you?

Why do you mock God?

Yes, your faith is dead, because you NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH.

How can I be saved by faith, if my faith was dead (non existant)
 
Mar 28, 2014
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no, it doesn't.
ROMANS 6:
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

HAVING BELIEVED, OUR OLD SELF ALREADY CRUCIFIED WITH HIM

the verse says nothing about having believed....it says we know....what do we know...this is what we know.....(baptism/obedience)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

7
For one who has died has been set free from sin.


ALREADY DEAD, ALREADY FREE
it is in baptism we die....

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:


8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

ALREADY DEAD THROUGH HIM AND ALSO ALIVE IN HIM
if we have died with Christ....

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death
we believe......

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.



9
We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

BECAUSE WE ARE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, WE ARE ALREADY FREE WITH HIM

Christ conquered sin and death and now lives unto God


11
So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
REALIZE IT IS TRUE!
we must consider ourselves dead to sin and live unto God in Christ just as Christ


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

AND THEREFORE LIVE LIKE IT IS TRUE!

don't sin in your mortal bodies, to be a slave to the desires of sin

obedience of faith
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Again you contradict yourself.

Not to mention, you belittle the power of God. You think he needs us to prove our faith first before he says, ok, your faith is real. I will save you?

Why do you mock God?

Yes, your faith is dead, because you NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH.

How can I be saved by faith, if my faith was dead (non existant)
you don't read bro...we are saved by grace
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
you don't read bro...we are saved by grace
No, You do not read bro. Grace is unmerited favor, mercy, freely given.

we are saved by faith, BECAUSE of grace, we can never earn it.

if we have no faith, Grace is still offered. but it is not given, God is not going to force you to take it.

His righteousness Proves we can not earn it. No amount of work you do will ever save you. If it could Christ would never have had to do what he did on the cross.

Again, why do you offend and beliitle God by saying he needs us to prove our faith is real because he gives us his grace gift? Can not God knw before we do one work??
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
obedience of faith
No faith, no obedience.

obedience does not prove to God we have faith, God does not need proof he knows. if he does not know. he is not much of a God is he?

All obedience does, is prove to us our faith is real.

Again, why do you belittle God. Is God omniscient or not??
 
Mar 28, 2014
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No faith, no obedience.

obedience does not prove to God we have faith, God does not need proof he knows. if he does not know. he is not much of a God is he?

All obedience does, is prove to us our faith is real.

Again, why do you belittle God. Is God omniscient or not??
you have no idea how God regard obedience....so you have no idea how he regards disobedience...
1 Samuel 15
And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
you have no idea how God regard obedience....so you have no idea how he regards disobedience...
1 Samuel 15
And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

No, You have no idea how God regards disobedience, or you would be on your hands and knees like the tax collector not even able to look up at God. and begging for Gods mercy. And in doing so, go home justified.

Instead your like the pharisee.. Glad you are not like the sinner, And having been baptised, and doing all your works..

You have yet to empty yourself. your still trying to save yourself.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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No, You do not read bro. Grace is unmerited favor, mercy, freely given.

we are saved by faith, BECAUSE of grace, we can never earn it.

if we have no faith, Grace is still offered. but it is not given, God is not going to force you to take it.

His righteousness Proves we can not earn it. No amount of work you do will ever save you. If it could Christ would never have had to do what he did on the cross.

Again, why do you offend and beliitle God by saying he needs us to prove our faith is real because he gives us his grace gift? Can not God knw before we do one work??
you put your personal twist to scripture...but we are saved by grace through faith...you keep saying we are saved by faith...it is God who saves us by grace...it is through faith we enter into his grace....
 
Mar 28, 2014
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No, You have no idea how God regards disobedience, or you would be on your hands and knees like the tax collector not even able to look up at God. and begging for Gods mercy. And in doing so, go home justified.

Instead your like the pharisee.. Glad you are not like the sinner, And having been baptised, and doing all your works..

You have yet to empty yourself. your still trying to save yourself.
this is your quote bro...you are the one saying all obedience does is prove to us our faith is real....
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull


No faith, no obedience.

obedience does not prove to God we have faith, God does not need proof he knows. if he does not know. he is not much of a God is he?

All obedience does, is prove to us our faith is real.

Again, why do you belittle God. Is God omniscient or not??
you have to obey the word bro....not to prove if your faith is real...but because you made a decision to love God...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
this is your quote bro...you are the one saying all obedience does is prove to us our faith is real....


you have to obey the word bro....not to prove if your faith is real...but because you made a decision to love God...
yeah your right. We need to (rolls eyes)

News flash. If you have faith in God. There will be no question. YOU WILL OBEY. That is why John said, if your born of God, You can not live in sin. It is impossible.

If you have faith, it is not, YOU MUST, there will be no question. YOU WILL

That is why people who do not have faith (it is dead) will not obey God. they DO NOT TRUST HIM, Mere belief is not enough.

I can have faith in a religious system. And do all kinds of works that may appear to make me look like I had faith (like you do)

Or I can just play a game, And say I believe when I do not. And have no works.

Paul spoke to the religious people

James spoke to the fakers.

Things you can't seem to comprehend..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
you put your personal twist to scripture...but we are saved by grace through faith...you keep saying we are saved by faith...it is God who saves us by grace...it is through faith we enter into his grace....
yep. And I have said this over and over.

But you do not believe this, You add works to the equation.

WHy??
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
26,249
14,025
113
59
why can you not show the work that accompany your genuine faith that you placed in Christ to be saved...you have genuine faith you are going to Christ to be saved....what is the work that accompany your genuine faith...which you are about to place in Christ to be saved??????
I have already answered your questions. There is just no getting through to you. :( I feel like I'm talking to the wall.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,539
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I have already answered your questions. There is just no getting through to you. :( I feel like I'm talking to the wall.
Actually more like a reprobate heart given to believe the lie because it won't receive the truth. God does not strive forever with the unrepentant heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger