Conditional Salvation

[eternally-gratefull]

1) What verse says doing unrighteousness makes one righteous? No such verse exists but that idea is what the faith only crowd tries to add to the bible.

who said being unrighteousness makes us righteous? There you go telling lies again

dude, the righteousness of Christ is what makes me righteous. Not my own, my righteousness is as fithy rags, I will never be good enough to earn the right to be a child of God.

if God does not give it to me, I will never be his child.

or did you forget this great passage?

John 1: [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Does it say it is my will? does it say it was because I did righteous works? does it say because I was baptised. went to church, stopped sin? etc etc

No, It says I RECIEVED HIM!

when are you going to recieve him sea bass? and stop trying to earn you right to be his child. an impossible task?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As long as one CONDTIONALLY remains "in Christ" he will for certain be saved. But what happens to those that "draw back unto perdition" falling away from Christ in unbelief? Be saved anyway?

se we must earn salvation by always DOING..

Thanks, you just proves us all right..

ps. Thanks for mocking God, saying he would give someone such a precious gift based on the things Christ did on the cross. KNOWING they will one day walk away.

Oh how weak and foolish God must be

 

[SeaBass]

except you forget one thing.

Sea bass is making conditions works, which people must physically do, and can take credit for.

Rom 4:3 "What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness"

God is the one that does the crediting-reckoning and whom does God reckon as righteous? Those that disobey Him or those that obey Him?

 

[notuptome]

As long as one CONDTIONALLY remains "in Christ" he will for certain be saved. But what happens to those that "draw back unto perdition" falling away from Christ in unbelief? Be saved anyway?

I'm held in nail pierced hands that formed the world. I'm sealed with the Holy Spirit who is eternal. I am loved by the Living God who created me for His pleasure. Where shall I go or who shall remove me from my place?

Apart from the Holy Spirit all these things are foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

so you do not have eternal security, because you have absolutely no way to know that you would never draw back. Your not God, neither are you omniscient. so you have no security at all.

.....so evidently eternal security cannot be true.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rom 4:3 "What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness"

God is the one that does the crediting-reckoning and whom does God reckon as righteous? Those that disobey Him or those that obey Him?

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

I can go on and on and on.

Your saved in a sinless state, Made righteous (justified) and through it, have the ability to obey God. and do good works.

next

 

[Bride]

except you forget one thing.

Sea bass is making conditions works, which people must physically do, and can take credit for.

Having faith in someone to completely save you, because you are totally helpless is not something you can be proud of, or even take credit for. it takes complete humility, which is what God demands.

No one will be saved unless they do this.

if your still trying to work (water baptism, Church membership, stopping sin etc etc etc) you have yet to reach this state of humility, Your still to self focused trying to save yourself.

No he isn't. That is your imagination. He hasn't said one word such as that. I'm reading the same words. You are taking to argument against Him for whatever reason. He wants to take argument against me because I rely on Jesus and always will... it's like this place is a cauldron of foolish opinions. Everybody pointing their finger at everybody else.

SIN IS REBELLION. Any person who receives Christ, then sins, has a bad situation.

Anyone who receives Christ, then doesn't believe He is powerful enough to overcome sin in their life, has an equally bad situation.

Anyone who says that someone else can NOT know whether they will ever turn back to sin, is presumptuous to say the least, for I know that I will never turn back to sin, nor will I ever leave and forsake Him any more than He would me.
Such a person's words are unlearned, and come from canned, judgemental, divisive causing theological arguments.

Oh the simplicity that is in Christ!

(2Co 11:2)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
(2Co 11:3)
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

dude, it says the grace of God has appeared to all men.

it does not say all have taken it.

GRACE.

You do not teach grace, you teach works..

So salvation is CONDITIONAL upon man to receive God's grace. So salvation is not UNcondtional as MsSPratt earlier claimed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.....so evidently eternal security cannot be true.....

Well in your gospel no. Because you have to earn it.

But in the gospel of Christ, yes, Because God knows, It is not what I know that matters, it is what God knows. and God knows me inside and out, before I was even born, He knew who I was, what I would become, what sins I would commit,(I never surprised god by any of my sins) everything in my life from the time I was born till the time I died. He knew this all before I was born.

if eternal security is not real. Then God is not who he says he is. He has alot of people he gave his precious gift to suprise him by sin, and disbelief at a latter time, forcing him to take his FREE GIFT back.

 

[notuptome]

No he isn't. That is your imagination. He hasn't said one word such as that. I'm reading the same words. You are taking to argument against Him for whatever reason. He wants to take argument against me because I rely on Jesus and always will... it's like this place is a cauldron of foolish opinions. Everybody pointing their finger at everybody else.

SIN IS REBELLION. Any person who receives Christ, then sins, has a bad situation.

Anyone who receives Christ, then doesn't believe He is powerful enough to overcome sin in their life, has an equally bad situation.

Anyone who says that someone else can NOT know whether they will ever turn back to sin, is presumptuous to say the least, for I know that I will never turn back to sin, nor will I ever leave and forsake Him any more than He would me.
Such a person's words are unlearned, and come from canned, judgemental, divisive causing theological arguments.

Oh the simplicity that is in Christ!

(2Co 11:2)
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
(2Co 11:3)
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Let's cut to the quick on this matter. He believes that one is saved by water baptism. He denies Holy Spirit baptism.

We are saved by grace not water baptism. The Holy Spirit abides in every heart that has been regenerated in Christ. We who were once afar off are now made near by the blood of Christ. We are reconciled to God because Jesus blood has made atonement for us. We are no longer under condemnation but are inheritors of eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

who said being unrighteousness makes us righteous? There you go telling lies again

dude, the righteousness of Christ is what makes me righteous. Not my own, my righteousness is as fithy rags, I will never be good enough to earn the right to be a child of God.

if God does not give it to me, I will never be his child.

or did you forget this great passage?

John 1: [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Does it say it is my will? does it say it was because I did righteous works? does it say because I was baptised. went to church, stopped sin? etc etc

No, It says I RECIEVED HIM!

when are you going to recieve him sea bass? and stop trying to earn you right to be his child. an impossible task?

One is either doing unrighteousness or righteousness, no inbetween.

You have already said one is NOT saved by working righteousness. That must implies you are saying one must be saved by doing unrighteousness.

 

[SeaBass]

se we must earn salvation by always DOING..

Thanks, you just proves us all right..

ps. Thanks for mocking God, saying he would give someone such a precious gift based on the things Christ did on the cross. KNOWING they will one day walk away.

Oh how weak and foolish God must be

You do not understand nor desire to understand that free gifts can and do come with conditions and meeting those conditions earns do not, cannot earn the free gift.

 

[Bride]

who said being unrighteousness makes us righteous? There you go telling lies again

dude, the righteousness of Christ is what makes me righteous. Not my own, my righteousness is as fithy rags, I will never be good enough to earn the right to be a child of God.

if God does not give it to me, I will never be his child.

or did you forget this great passage?

John 1: [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Does it say it is my will? does it say it was because I did righteous works? does it say because I was baptised. went to church, stopped sin? etc etc

No, It says I RECIEVED HIM!

when are you going to recieve him sea bass? and stop trying to earn you right to be his child. an impossible task?

(1Co 15:34)
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

When are you going to let Jesus Work Righteousness and Reign in you so that you don't sin any more? Are you waiting for something else?? I have been giving you the knowledge in the Word of God. What are you waiting for? Again, READ...

(Act 10:35)
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

(Rom 8:4)
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(2Co 6:7)
By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

(2Co 6:14)
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


He who sins is of darkness. We who walk in the light and are delivered from darkness are as this:
(Rom 6:18)
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

(1Jn 3:9)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[SeaBass]

I'm held in nail pierced hands that formed the world. I'm sealed with the Holy Spirit who is eternal. I am loved by the Living God who created me for His pleasure. Where shall I go or who shall remove me from my place?

Apart from the Holy Spirit all these things are foolishness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

People of their own volition choose to be in Christ and can by their own volition choose to leave Christ back unto perdition. Christ does not force anyone to do either against their will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not understand nor desire to understand that free gifts can and do come with conditions and meeting those conditions earns do not, cannot earn the free gift.

no, it is you who does not understand.

No one can take credit for going under water because you can't swim, and someone went under to save you.. but you still had to allow that person to save you by trusting him (your so called condition)

can you show me one person who would go screaming how they saved themselves in this senerio? or even take credit in any aspect, no matter how slight? who can boast in this scene???

this is our situation with God. we are going under. he sent his son to rescue us, But he will not just save us, we have to trust him.

You want to add water baptism and a meriad of other works, which means your saving yourself. In your mind, God just gives you a helping hand to get you over the edge, But your the one who will boast of saving yourself.

Me, I was drowning, And I trusted God to pull me out of the water, and stopped trying to save myself.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

I can go on and on and on.

Your saved in a sinless state, Made righteous (justified) and through it, have the ability to obey God. and do good works.

next

Who is saved in a SINLESS STATE??????????

If one is in a SINLESS STATE then he does not need to be saved.

Was Abraham sinless, perfect person when God credited his belief righteous?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People of their own volition choose to be in Christ and can by their own volition choose to leave Christ back unto perdition. Christ does not force anyone to do either against their will.

God is not going to save someone he knows will return.. they may think they are saved (or were saved) but they are not. and never were.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who is saved in a SINLESS STATE??????????

If one is in a SINLESS STATE then he does not need to be saved.

so they are saved in a disobedient (sinful) state, thanks you just answered you own question.

 

[SeaBass]

Well in your gospel no. Because you have to earn it.

But in the gospel of Christ, yes, Because God knows, It is not what I know that matters, it is what God knows. and God knows me inside and out, before I was even born, He knew who I was, what I would become, what sins I would commit,(I never surprised god by any of my sins) everything in my life from the time I was born till the time I died. He knew this all before I was born.

if eternal security is not real. Then God is not who he says he is. He has alot of people he gave his precious gift to suprise him by sin, and disbelief at a latter time, forcing him to take his FREE GIFT back.

It is you that is saying salvation can be earned. So you have nothing but a false straw-man for you refuse to understand free gifts can and do come with conditions and meeting those conditions CANNOT, DO NOT earn the free gift. You have no valid argument here in accusing others on trying to earn salvation.

Heb 10:38,39 is false if eternal security is true. Heb 10:38,39 and man-made eternal security are mutually exclusive positions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is you that is saying salvation can be earned.

Oh, now this should be good. Please show us all how this is so..

So you have nothing but a false straw-man for you refuse to understand free gifts can and do come with conditions and meeting those conditions CANNOT, DO NOT earn the free gift. You have no valid argument here in accusing others on trying to earn salvation.

Heb 10:38,39 is false if eternal security is true. Heb 10:38,39 and man-made eternal security are mutually exclusive positions.

See, it is you who are trying to earn salvation. not me, you decry eternal security, so you must not only earn salvation by doing the work of baptism, but by doing the hard work of not losing said salvation.