Confusion about Sodom and Gomorrah

[GaryA]

So this is wrong. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible were not destroyed because of homosexuality. In fact, the Bible tells us exactly why they were destroyed. Ezekiel 16:49 says, and I quote, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. They were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, and they did not help the poor and the needy.” According to the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, not because of homosexuality, but because they were inhospitable, they were selfish. They didn’t care for the orphan and the stranger. In fact, if you know the story, they were destroyed because a gang of men came to rape two angels when they appeared at Lot’s house. I find it really interesting that we Christians continually misinterpret stories that have a word that convicts us to be stories that convict those people that we’re afraid of. Christians are often inhospitable and unwelcoming to strangers, but it’s far easier for us to make this story about homosexuals than to own up to that.
My Opinion and clear understanding. i hope it helps

We often misinterpret stories by leaving out important details...

Ezekiel 16:

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

I understand the story of Sodom and agree homosexuality is sin
I cannot find answers to these scriptures and hope a brother or sister can help me
I am uncomfortable asking my pastor or anyone in Church

Genesis 19:4-5 NIV:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.

My research always has articles saying it doesn't really mean every male yet the scripture makes it clear with 3 steps...all the men plus every part of the city plus young and old .Is it teaching that every male in Sodom became homosexual rapists including the men engaged to the daughters of Lot?
Do most of the men become heterosexuals 'after going back to their wives and children?
Was it a case of mass demon possession?

6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

Lot knowing the people of Sodom...why then would he offer his daughters to homosexual men? its common knowledge homosexuals have zero interest in females...its like offering meat to a vegetarian.....why is this scripture overlooked? is it possible the majority of the men were heterosexuals' and the rape which is a violent act was to degrade and break the spirit of the "men" .......this was preformed at that time in history as a severe degrading punishment
Was it that God gave them over to homosexual acts like in Romans1?


Ezekiel 16:49-50 NIV :49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

This scripture I understand why it is ignored as it shows us including myself guilty of some of these sins such as greed, especially overfed{gluttony}
This scripture does include detestable things which would be homosexual acts and outside of marriage heterosexuals' acts.Most give an offering of 10 percent but do they care about "the poor and needy" the children that starve to death every 3 minutes? choosing not to store there treasure in heaven but rather bank investments or property



I understand we should concentrate only on what Jesus taught and draw closer to Him but I keep hearing about this sin of homosexuality as the worst or only real sin and the hate it creates in the hearts of Christians.All scripture is the word of God and contains truth and must make sense and not what we want it to say


Thank you very much for reading and i look forward to hopefully getting some explanation of truth and understanding

The destruction of Sodom was not only about sexual perversion of every kind but mainly these people were evil towards travellers, They would let them in the gated city and even gave them money to buy what they needed but NO ONE would sell them anything they basically starved to death, slow starvation and torture. This place was in the middle of desert so the poor people trapped and abused had no place to go, thay were evil unclean and rapists, murderers, it is why they were destroyed, their evil ways were known then.

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

I think you are too focused on orientation. Mens raised in that perverted culture might have engaged in sex with men, too. The obsession with people having a 'sexual orientation' is recent, from recent decades. Maybe you can't relate because the idea of having sex with a man is gross. It's good if you have those kinds of sexual mores. Some of us still do. But men raised in an idolatrous, sexually perverse culture might not have had the same scruples.

There are sometimes where 'everyone' doesn't literally mean everyone. It's pretty obvious that Lot wasn't trying to get in there and rape anyone and he was a man in the city.

Hi...Thanks for your reply...the rape whether by homosexuals or heterosexuals'would indicate how wicked Sodom was as a whole,that may be why the scripture does not just say all the men but went on in detail every part of Sodom {so we can't assume just the gay area of Sodom} young and old{so we don't assume it was just the young or old} in order to justify the destruction of Sodom....in addition to homosexual and hetrosexual sins the other sins listed made a horrible wicked place..She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Lot was righteous where the destruction was about the people of Sodom that were wicked sinners in some way with no repentance in their heart.It seems the all the men means just that but most would not be homosexuals{homosexual having no attraction to females} I am searching for the truth only and not what i want the truth to be

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

God gave men over to various lusts, including men lusting after men, because of idolatry. If the men in the city weren't degenerates, then having sex with a man wouldn't have been a consideration. But they, and their culture, was so perverted that they would consider such a thing. Men having sex with men is a horrible sin. The idea of 'sexual orientation' as we hear it today is a modern concept, not some kind of universal truth

Hi....I think ALL sin is terrible and all sin keeps us from Heaven. The sins of Sodom were terrible sins according to God...She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me....
yet no one says these sins are "horrible sins" or "degenerates" "perverted" ?
The reason is most Christians commit these sins,the sin of gluttony for example is never preached because so many Christians are "overfed" and really giving the minimum offering is not being concerned about the poor and needy according to what Jesus taught
Mark12:41-44...
41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

Am i wrong to think we should not focus only on sins that do not effect us like homosexual sin and ignore those sins that do?

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

I never heard anyone say that homosexuality is the worst sin. There were many death penalty sins in the Old Testament. Men having sex with men was one of them. But so was men having sex with animals. So was sex with one's neighbor's wife. Murder was another death penalty sin.

Yes true....another was Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. Jesus addressed hypocrisy in that this law was ignored because they did not want to put to death rebellious teens but had no problem with death sentence to the sins they hated....nothing has really changed
Mark7
6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[b]
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

There are Men who have wives and children but who also engage in homosexual activity.. Do you know about Bi-sexuals who engage in sexual relations with both genders.. There are normally straight males who go to prison and start to engage in homosexual relationships all the while thinking of themselves as heterosexuals who engage with other men simply because no woman is available.. So with all that in mind you could end up with a situation that a town could end up with all the men engaging in sexual relationships with both woman and men.. Effectively becoming a town of bi-sexual men in practice..

Hi....Yes i agree about bi-sexual people as a strong explanation, yet it is taught homosexual men{no sexual attraction to female} went to rape and that was my point it would be unlikely the story was about true homosexual men and that is why Lot offered his daughters knowing the bi-sexual and heterosexuals' men might be tempted by his young daughters. That would make sense! first time i heard this argument...i was more focused on heterosexuals' using rape as a degrading spirit breaking punishment as was used at that time .Documentary's about prison are gangs taking new prisoners and breaking them sexually making them their property or their "girl",so gay sex takes place for many years but the interest for females doers not disappear. A straight man does not become a homosexual as studies have shown. It is a violent practice to dominate and control and degrade much like the attempted rape in Sodom would have been.Thanks for sharing your valid explanation about bi-sexual men committing such sins

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

That's a misconception as far as the Biblical Christianity is concerned.. The sexual act of homosexuality is a sin just as adultery is a sin or fornication is a sin.. It may seem to an unbeliever that Christians are fixated on homosexuality but the reason why some Christians talk about Homosexuality is because they are reacting to and trying to counter the gay pride movement..

The gay pride movement seeks to convince homosexuals that their sin is not sin, that they do not need to repent of it or seek the atonement of The LORD Jesus for the forgiveness of their sin.. To Christians this means that if the gay pride movement is successful ( and it has been successful in the minds of many homosexuals and others ) them this will remove homosexuals from seeking the atonement of Jesus and thus remove the opportunity they have for salvation.. So the gay pride movement that tells homosexuals that their OK and that their life style is good are actually leading homosexuals into the eternal lake of fire.. While Christians who are telling homosexuals that their sexual acts are an abomination to God are actually seeking to save homosexuals from the eternal lake of fire..

Yes I agree with you homosexuality is one sin of many others that threaten our salvation
I am a believer since 2015 when i accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour and i see the Church as focusing on this sin because it gets overwhelming Christian support.With all respect I do not see Christians as a whole caring about homosexuals having "the atonement of Jesus and thus remove the opportunity they have for salvation"
Teen suicide is highest by homosexual teens "The Trevor Project estimates that more than 1.8 million LGBTQ youth (13-24) seriously consider suicide each year in the U.S. — and at least one attempts suicide every 45 seconds."
If a child is told he is hated by man and God because of his attraction and will go to hell for eternity it will have serious effects on these youth. So the Christian has some blame as well
What does the church do to help the honosexuals that do not want those feeling and want to be hetrosexual? besides condeming to hell they offer no solutions but say do what i could never do and live in celibasy
The hypocrisy of married hetrosexual couples using birth control after having 2 or 3 children because they can't live without sex...they want the lustful pleasure without the purpose of pro-creation....they want to be fruitful but not multiply....birth control is rebellion against God...its unnatural to use birth control...what happened to self discipline? and then casually condemn a homosexual that is most likely that way to a traumatic childhood.Where is the compassion is what I cannot understand...that is a bit off topic but suppressing homosexuals and saying its to save them is hypocrisy
Lets go to the fast food outlets and save the overfed. of coarse thats not really a sin apparently because we don't want it to be
Jesus taught a lot about the dangers of greed and wealth but it seems the church now says its ok to have wealth as long as don't love it because no christian wants to live a humble life so we wrestle the scriptures until it says what we want
What 2 adults do in private as long as no person is hurt is between them and God
All Christians live a sinful lifestyle some more than others, I think teaching wealth is not a sin after Jesus clearly taught it is is the real danger as it keeps christians greedy and not wanting to help the poor as Jesus taught

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

It is not about hate in the hearts of Christians - it is about Christians having a proper understanding of just how much God hates it.

When God created everything, he put into place - according to His perfect wisdom - the "proper use" of the male body and of the female body. The sin of homosexuality violates the "proper use" of the body.

Yes I agree with you homosexuality is a sin and not natural and I would think everyone knows it takes a man and woman to have a child as God intended.
The Bible as a whole does not mention same sex a lot,really a handful of scripture and no quote God hates it....unless i overlooked it?
Jesus chose to not talk about it at all but what Jesus did teach Christians rebels against it as it effects their lifestyle
Birth control for example goes against the "proper use" of the male body and of the female body. The sin of birth control violates the "proper use" of the body in being fruitful and multiplying....no teaching of self control that I ever heard
Sex is not love so if not for the propose God intended to have children why turn it into lustful meaningless sin? and then tell the homosexual' youth to live his whole life in celibacy?
What sins does God hate according to scripture and not man
Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us, “There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.”
So you could correctly say "God hates liars" God hates murders" etc

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

So this is wrong. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible were not destroyed because of homosexuality. In fact, the Bible tells us exactly why they were destroyed. Ezekiel 16:49 says, and I quote, “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. They were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, and they did not help the poor and the needy.” According to the Bible, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, not because of homosexuality, but because they were inhospitable, they were selfish. They didn’t care for the orphan and the stranger. In fact, if you know the story, they were destroyed because a gang of men came to rape two angels when they appeared at Lot’s house. I find it really interesting that we Christians continually misinterpret stories that have a word that convicts us to be stories that convict those people that we’re afraid of. Christians are often inhospitable and unwelcoming to strangers, but it’s far easier for us to make this story about homosexuals than to own up to that.
My Opinion and clear understanding. i hope it helps

I completely agree with what you wrote and thank you as I was thinking only I was seeing the obvious

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

In the story, Lots daughters were engaged? Or married, so why did he offer them, or was that a ruse.
It seemed he was more, my daughters are virgins. Perverts seem to want virgins it didnt seem to actually matter what 'orientation' a person is.

It would seem in sodoms culture anyone new or young was fair game. Otherwise he would have offered his wife, or himself. If I was the daughter I would have been horrified, but people actually do offer up their own children/offspring for all manner of things and sell them out and throw them under the bus.

In places like Thailand where sex trafficking is the norm, parents sell their own children, and of course this used to happen in slave cultures, and it happens in many schools, univerisities, the new young freshmen/recruits are hazed or told to be a slave to the older students...if they want to fit in

Thanks for your thoughts
I don't think a true homosexual would want any female just as I would not want any male
Your right if they were homosexuals he would have offered himself as a sacrifice to save the angels as God called Lot righteous

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

First off only Lot recognized The Angels of the Lord....nobody else.

Secondly Abraham had questioned God about Sodom as God told Abraham what was going to happen to Sodom.

Lot sat in the gate of Sodom....he was a city elder. Meaning that Sodom was not a lawless city. They had guards and police and regulations. For a huge group to come after Lot's guests this way....meant that EVERYONE knew what was going to happen and did nothing or cared. No police were called and likely some outside Lot's door were the city guards and police.

Then there's more recent studies that suggest that over 80% of homosexuals are really bisexual....meaning that it truly is a choice of lifestyle despite claims otherwise.

Then finally....it was a form of judgment by the men of Sodom on whom they perceived to be simple visitors to the city they felt judged by. (God does have the right to judge and men do not)
So as a punishment they were going to rape the visitors even though they were in Lot's house and under his protection.

Lot offered his daughters....which was a valuable prize and sought after thing. But the men of Sodom had their feelings hurt and wanted revenge by means of rape.

Canaan, the land Sodom was in, was full of stories of urbanization and especially de-urbanization. Entire cities would evaporate and disappear after slowly building up by clans moving and settling into an area. Some because of disease and some because of lack of water. But Sodom had water "well watered plain towards Sodom" . Lot was wealthy because God had blessed him while he was a nephew of Abraham. Lot refused to apologize to Abraham over the earlier quarreling.

God visited Lot in Sodom and they hated God and wished to rape him......
Guess what? Didn't work out for the whole city.
And stubborn Lot?
He ended up sleeping with his own daughters whose descendants harass and destabilize the middle east to this day.

Very interesting points....thank you for sharing and I will look more closely at some of your thoughts

 

[seekingonlytruth60]

What you are missing here is the extent of the moral context. What these men wanted to do was so heinous - one of the things that God calls an abomination - that Lot was trying to avoid even allowing it to happen. By "offering his daughters", Lot was saying in effect:

"If you must do something, at least keep it within the confines of 'normal' - [please] do not perform this abomination before God."

(The word 'normal' meaning 'according to the proper use that God ordained'.)

Today, the moral context has been "softened" to the point that we (as a society, and - sometimes - as Christians) make jokes about it. This ought not be. It should be so abhorrent to us that we do not give it the slightest inkling of 'glory'. But, we have been "conditioned" to "accept" it at some level in our thinking.

In Lot's day, just how much of an abomination it really was was very well understood. It was unthinkable for any right-thinking person.

You have to grasp just how serious this was in the eyes of Lot to understand why he suggested something like that...

I agree with your example of abomination....its interesting I never hear of the love of money preached as abomination
Luke16:
13 “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. 15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

Proverbs6
There are many abominations in the Bible
16These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to [h]Him:
17 A[i] proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.

 

[posthuman]

First off only Lot recognized The Angels of the Lord....nobody else.

Not so sure about that.

If you go back to Genesis 6, how do you get a nephilim?

*at least* most of the men of the city in a mob come to Lot's house and surround it. they are desperate to get their hands on the angels, even after they are miraculously struck blind. these are extraordinary measures.

Lot is not an insignificant person - he's the beloved nephew of Abraham, who has the most powerful army in the region. in recent history (at the time) Abraham and his men had overcome an army that had completely vanquished Sodom.

so imagine you are a citizen of Sodom - what compels you to essentially declare war in a single night on the nephew of the leader of the most powerful army in the area? lust? really? what is so important to Sodom about getting their hands on these angels that they risk their city being attacked and destroyed by Abraham?

did they act like this for every stranger that entered the town?
How many people had Lot sheltered in his house before this? why was he sitting watching the gate that day - was that his habit? Was he running a little underground railroad in Sodom?


IMO there is a lot more going on in that city than simple sexual perversion. God doesnt blow up entire cities often - if this was just about homosexuality why hasn't San Francisco been destroyed?

 

[JohnDB]

Not so sure about that.

If you go back to Genesis 6, how do you get a nephilim?

*at least* most of the men of the city in a mob come to Lot's house and surround it. they are desperate to get their hands on the angels, even after they are miraculously struck blind. these are extraordinary measures.

Lot is not an insignificant person - he's the beloved nephew of Abraham, who has the most powerful army in the region. in recent history (at the time) Abraham and his men had overcome an army that had completely vanquished Sodom.

so imagine you are a citizen of Sodom - what compels you to essentially declare war in a single night on the nephew of the leader of the most powerful army in the area? lust? really? what is so important to Sodom about getting their hands on these angels that they risk their city being attacked and destroyed by Abraham?

did they act like this for every stranger that entered the town?
How many people had Lot sheltered in his house before this? why was he sitting watching the gate that day - was that his habit? Was he running a little underground railroad in Sodom?


IMO there is a lot more going on in that city than simple sexual perversion. God doesnt blow up entire cities often - if this was just about homosexuality why hasn't San Francisco been destroyed?

Lot wasn't guarding the gate by sitting there....he was a city official. You should learn anthropology of the ANE before spouting modern fantasy fiction ideas.

Any attacking army would attack a city anywhere except a gate. Because a city gate had too many traps and a small handful of men could destroy an army of thousands.

Lot had no army whatsoever....wherever you got that notion get rid of it. It doesn't have even a remote possibility to be true.

Second nephilim are not half angel half men weird human beings with superpowers. Get rid of that notion too....it's from a fantasy fiction book that was never intended to be considered truth....only fiction, because you don't know the 100 tests for scripture that this book breaks and clearly states that it was not scripture. It breaks just about every test for scripture possible and yet you believe it to be true? Do you not own any critical analysis for determining whether something is true or not?

And since you have clearly botched your negative review of EVERY REPUTABLE SOURCE of information and about a hundred noted scientists to promote a self imposed agenda and violated God's Word....
Do you not have any fear of God by promoting this nonsense?
Scary stuff IMHO....very scary indeed.

 

[posthuman]

Lot had no army whatsoever....wherever you got that notion get rid of it. It doesn't have even a remote possibility to be true.

i was referring to Abraham; see Genesis 14

 

[JohnDB]

i was referring to Abraham; see Genesis 14

Abraham had over 200 men trained in fighting with nothing to lose.

Yes...Abraham did. But you insinuate that Lot had access to them....he did not. He had access to the guards and soldiers of Sodom sorta. As he was a city official sitting in the gate of Sodom he always had access to police and guards. He was part of their government. Not necessarily responsible for the rape gangs...but still a part of the city government.


And that wasn't the only way I completely dismantled your standing in this discussion. There were several.

 

[posthuman]

Yes...Abraham did. But you insinuate that Lot had access to them....

No, I intuit that taking what is effectively a military action against what must be considered a close ally of Abraham puts yourself in real and immediate risk of retaliation from Abraham, and the events of Genesis 14 demonstrate that Abraham is capable of overcoming Sodom's defenses.

in short I am saying that I do not assume the Sodomites to be idiots.

they are taking a calculated risk by doing what they did, one that they took en masse, and that kind of risk is not what I expect them to take for just any random man who sojourns in the city that they find sexually attractive.

It is always a mistake when reading the Bible to assume the people you're reading about were stupid.

 

[posthuman]

Second nephilim are not half angel half men weird human beings with superpowers. Get rid of that notion too....it's from a fantasy fiction book

Genesis 6 is not a fantasy fiction book.
nephilim and anakim were real and extraordinarily powerful forms of humankind.

 

[posthuman]

I completely dismantled your standing in this discussion

You misspelled "miscomprehended"

 

[Dropship]

..I keep hearing about this sin of homosexuality as the worst or only real sin and the hate it creates in the hearts of Christians..

The only worst sin is to criticise the holy spirit.
True Christians don't hate anybody.
In fact most gays are nice people, but the Sodom/Gomorrah mob was utterly filthy and depraved, which is why God zapped them..