Converts or disciples?

[Gideon300]

Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

It's wonderful to see and hear about revival. Greg Laurie saw 500 people give their lives to Christ over Easter. I've said before that hundreds were baptised near where I live. However, the "Great Commission" includes the instruction to make disciples. It is not enough to see people saved. They need to be taught so that they may be established in Christ also.

I receive weekly updates from Professor James Tour, a renowned scientist and a zealous evangelist. His science presentations include an invitation to talk to him about the key truth of the gospel, the resurrection of Christ. Most weeks, 2-3 people are saved as a result of his witness. He does not leave them to fend for themselves. He will provide a Bible, if necessary, and a study guide, "Growing in Christ". He also assigns a mentor to each new believer.

I've seen how damaging a lack of teaching can be. Some time ago, I met a young believer at a church I was attending. He was joyful and keen to witness to his friends. I "happened" (God's leading) to meet him in town one day. He was sitting alone, most unhappy. I stopped to talk to him. He'd got angry with some of his friends who had ridiculed him for his new found faith. He was feeling most guilty and condemned.

I shared the truth of forgiveness because of the blood of Jesus. I quotes John 1:9. He was amazed. And he was free. He told me that he'd been attending his church for 18 months and had never heard about forgiveness after being saved. This is one of the fundamentals yet overlooked for this young man.

I believe that we owe it to those who attend our meetings to be sure that they are established in Christ. We should not assume that because they come they know the basics. How we go about helping these people will depend on our circumstances. For some, it will be informal, perhaps inviting the new person for a meal to get to know them. We need to find out where they are in the Lord. For others, it may require formal teaching sessions. Bigger churches should have a number of believers mature enough to help out with this.

If we are being led by the Lord, He will show us the appropriate way to help. Let's not leave new believers to flounder. You would not leave a baby to fend for itself. The same principle applies to new believers.

Remember too that we are not to Lord it over their faith. We were infants in Christ not so long ago.

 

[Magenta]

From Matthew 28 verses 18-20 ~ Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age.”

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Professor James Tour, a renowned scientist and a zealous evangelist

He is interesting to listen to but he claims there is a void between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3 (Source) stating that we don't know what happened. Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:5 is Day 1. I hope he continues standing up against unprincipled claims of science but as far as his opinions on scripture, I'll leave that up to the believer to decide.


Source- Origin of Life Crisis: Rice’s Dr. James Tour Calls Out Bad Science at Harvard

 

[Gideon300]

He is interesting to listen to but he claims there is a void between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3 (Source) stating that we don't know what happened. Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:5 is Day 1. I hope he continues standing up against unprincipled claims of science but as far as his opinions on scripture, I'll leave that up to the believer to decide.


Source- Origin of Life Crisis: Rice’s Dr. James Tour Calls Out Bad Science at Harvard

I happen to agree with Professor Tour. The word "was" can be accurately translated "became". I've read a good deal on this subject and it is obvious to me that there was a creation prior to Adam that was also destroyed by a world wide flood. Larry Ollison goes into this in depth. You can find his teaching on youtube.

Isaiah 45:18 says "For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens—He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am the LORD, and there is no other."

Most translations contradict Isaiah 45:18, claiming that the world was created formless and empty. You do not have to agree with the old earth/new creation idea. But it is not heresy because there is a sound basis for the doctrine. No one goes to hell for believing the earth is 6,000 years old and no one will be judged for accepting the old earth/new creation concept. Old earth does answer a lot of the questions and objections raised by geology and fossil records.

I am 100% sure that God created all things and that evolution is impossible. Just so you know.

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

My concerns with revivals is this, they are like bonfire, and people all get excited, but then when you leave the "excitment" you have to face real life and tribulations.

Jesus did not say make converts, he actually rebuked the Pharisees over making conversos,
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." (Matthew 23:15)

Instead He said make disciples,
"Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 28:19)

Discipleship is not making a convert at a rally, and then saying "be well and God speed." Discipleship is hands on training, as Jesus discipled his own, but the first year of discipleship they were casting out demons and healing people (Matthew 10:7-8).

It is key to disciple, not as long as year perhaps, I mean Jesus was training the Apostles, those who were be His Eyewitnesses and Write The Gospels. But the point is it was no a Altar Call of one day and the person is abandoned.

 

[Aaron56]

Thank you, @Gideon300 for this post!

When we read that Jesus said "Go forth and make disciples of all nations" the church should stop and ask "Well, how did they know how to make disciples?"

The answer is of course, The disciples would make disciples of others as Jesus made disciples of them.

And so we see discipleship not so much about getting a certain doctrinal position fixed fast in someone's mind, instead we see deep, intimate relationships form between the elder and the child. We see the elder correct, instruct, reprove, etc. mostly by his example to the disciple.

And the language used to describe this relationship is one of fathers and sons. Understanding that sons of God are neither male nor female, all disciples could rightfully be referred to as sons.

Paul calls Timothy and Titus his sons.
Paul claims he is the father of the Corinthians.
Peter calls his disciples his children.
John also refers to his disciples as children, young men, fathers.

A father is not a religious title, as the Roman church and others have made it. A father in the Lord is an elder who watches over those who are younger. This is very similar to how the more mature in a large, multi-generational House, would watch over the young: they know the ways of the House because they grew up in them and were disciplined by a natural father. This is how a natural House builds generationally.

So, too, does God build His House. [Actually it is in reverse: God builds His House this way and so natural men followed the example.]

God the Father discipled Jesus the Son to the point where He, the Son, would become the Christ. Christ, then, was given all authority over His Father's estate. This was to the perfect extent to where when we behold the Son we simultaneously behold the Father AND, Isaiah tells us, that Christ even receives the mantel of "Everlasting Father". (Now, of course this was always true in eternity. In the fullness of time this also appeared in the earth.)

So, of course we make disciples. But the work is done through the day to day relationship, at the kitchen table, long talks on the porch, over the phone, etc. A father in the Lord has time for his sons because he has grace to dispense to his sons... just as Jesus dispensed grace to His.