Cooperation with Grace

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Just 4 or 5 minutes of your time. This is a video from a catholic Bishop, Robert Barron. He tries to explain the Catholics version of Salvation. I don't 100 per cent understand it myself. More that Salvation is a process ?
I do respect a lot of you people on here who have awesome knowledge of the Bible. But I would be interested in why you think Bishop Barron's view is wrong or misinformed?
 
gotta love that Jewish interviewer. they got the humour !! :)
 
The bible makes it very clear that salvation is not a process, but a one off event based upon faith. It is eternally given as an irrevocable gift and Greek verb tense proves that it carries a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED action. A cursory read of the bible mixed with HONESTY reveals that the Catholic version of salvation is in error.
 
dcontroversal said:
The bible makes it very clear that salvation is not a process, but a one off event based upon faith.
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thanks for your input controversial. I wont be able to debate you on that. That was just my interpretation of the video by the way. I might have come to the wrong conclusion.
 
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MessageOfTheCross said:
Why do Catholics believe in purgatory and not the atoning Blood of Jesus for sin? Are they saved?
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Wish I could be Mr Catholic theologian on this but I cant. My first thought is that they are saved and just need "purging" before entering Heaven. Bit like a wooden floor getting the final varnish. :)
 
Magenta said:
@ 1:17~ "An atheist of good will can be saved."

First the RCC said you could only be saved if you practiced HER way,
within HER institution, now you can be saved even if you reject God. o_O
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Thanks. that's a good example quote.
Did they (the Church)? I don't know what they said.
Yes it does seem rather broad, doesn't it magenta. I like it in a way. But I can see why anyone might think it sounds like relativism, and feelgood Christianity.
 
morefaithrequired said:
This is a video from a catholic Bishop, Robert Barron. He tries to explain the Catholics version of Salvation. I don't 100 per cent understand it myself. More that Salvation is a process ?
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While I do not watch posted videos (no offense) I have studied the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). The RCC has a total misunderstanding of the meaning and significance of justification by grace through faith followed by sanctification through the power of the Spirit. Furthermore the RCC believes in (a) sacramental salvation, (b) baptismal regeneration, and (c) the necessity of being a Catholic in order to be saved. But after you have fulfilled all their demands, you can expect to go to Purgatory to pay for your own sins and be purified. So it is a lose-lose situation all the way.

You will also need to study the Canons of the Council of Trent (which are still valid and quoted in the CCC). Trent was bitterly opposed to the Reformers and their teaching on justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Thus they were bitterly opposed to the Five Solas of the Reformation:

  • Sola Fide, by faith alone.
  • Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone.
  • Solus Christus, through Christ alone.
  • Sola Gratia, by grace alone.
  • Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone.
"Justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. In justification Christ's righteousness is imputed to us as the only possible satisfaction of God's perfect justice. Our justification does not rest on any merit to be found in us, nor upon the grounds of an infusion of Christ's righteousness in us, nor that an institution claiming to be a church that denies or condemns sola fide can be recognized as a legitimate church." Theopedia
 
Nehemiah6 said:
While I do not watch posted videos (no offense) I have studied the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). The RCC has a total misunderstanding of the meaning and significance of justification by grace through faith followed by sanctification through the power of the Spirit. Furthermore the RCC believes in (a) sacramental salvation, (b) baptismal regeneration, and (c) the necessity of being a Catholic in order to be saved. But after you have fulfilled all their demands, you can expect to go to Purgatory to pay for your own sins and be purified. So it is a lose-lose situation all the way.

You will also need to study the Canons of the Council of Trent (which are still valid and quoted in the CCC). Trent was bitterly opposed to the Reformers and their teaching on justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Thus they were bitterly opposed to the Five Solas of the Reformation:

  • Sola Fide, by faith alone.
  • Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone.
  • Solus Christus, through Christ alone.
  • Sola Gratia, by grace alone.
  • Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone.
"Justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. In justification Christ's righteousness is imputed to us as the only possible satisfaction of God's perfect justice. Our justification does not rest on any merit to be found in us, nor upon the grounds of an infusion of Christ's righteousness in us, nor that an institution claiming to be a church that denies or condemns sola fide can be recognized as a legitimate church." Theopedia
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thanks for your input nehemiah. i imagine your view on this would strike a chord with many on here.
Im prepared to admit the CCC is not perfect. I dont treat it like a Bible.
one point made on the video is that Catholics believe anyone can be saved. Their conscience can save them. Its a broader definition anyway.
 
Magenta said:
@ 1:17~ "An atheist of good will can be saved."

First the RCC said you could only be saved if you practiced HER way,
within HER institution, now you can be saved even if you reject God. o_O
Click to expand...
Last year pope Francis said the same when a boy who's father had died as an unbeliever wept and asked if his dad was in Heaven.

Breaks my heart the emotion this little boy has asking his question. His name? Emanuele .

God have mercy.
 
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Whispered said:
Last year pope Francis said the same when a boy who's father had died as an unbeliever wept and asked if his dad was in Heaven.

Breaks my heart the emotion this little boy has asking his question. His name? Emanuele .

God have mercy.
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what would he say if they werent baptised?
 
morefaithrequired said:
what would he say if they werent baptised?
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As pertains to the dad of that little boy in the video, we will never know because he did have his children baptized. That isn't a sign of atheism as we know it. He believed he needed to insure his children were in the grace of God, but he himself did not. That's sad.
as I understand it, pope Francis said that people of good conscience can still get to Heaven even if they're not Catholic or saved.
This pope causes quite a stir among Catholics on many issues it seems.
 
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morefaithrequired said:
Thanks. that's a good example quote.
Did they (the Church)? I don't know what they said.
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It is a defined dogma of the RCC (defined by two ecumenical councils and confirmed by two reigning popes), that not only is salvation impossible outside the Church but that to be saved one must be baptized in the RCC, profess the Catholic faith and participate in the Communion of the RCC. A dogma is a teaching that every Roman Catholic must believe as a matter of faith - that is, without reservation - or else they will lose their salvation (so says the RCC).
morefaithrequired said:
Yes it does seem rather broad, doesn't it magenta. I like it in a way. But I can see why anyone might think it sounds like relativism, and feelgood Christianity.
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"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." <- The words of Jesus in Matthew 7:13.
 
morefaithrequired said:
Just 4 or 5 minutes of your time. This is a video from a catholic Bishop, Robert Barron. He tries to explain the Catholics version of Salvation. I don't 100 per cent understand it myself. More that Salvation is a process ?
I do respect a lot of you people on here who have awesome knowledge of the Bible. But I would be interested in why you think Bishop Barron's view is wrong or misinformed?
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The scriptures inform us there must be heresies or differences of opinions as view points amongst us. The kingdom of God does not come by looking to the temporal things . Men venerating or lording it over other men's faith .(the abomination of desolation)

Damnable heresies is one that we can judge one another are in respect to (sola scriptura) the true gospel. The law of the venerable fathers that the pew Catholics must seek the approval of are opinions as oral traditions of men that do despite to the grace of God. They are also called private interpretations.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Damnable ones that say only Mary received the fullness of Christ's grace all other receive a unknown remnant .that must be performed by them . And if in if not in this lifetime time the suffering continues a in a unknown place called purgatory somewhere in Limbo with a unknow amount of suffering or a unknow end,. Catholicism in a nut shell . A dark place

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
Salvation is spoken about in past, present and future tense. You can say that in the past, your sins were forgiven, in the present you are being sanctified, and in the future you will be glorified.

All this talk about how salvation operates is largely meaningless theological theoretical pondering. I have come to notice how destructive it is in Christendom, it is operating so much on a theoretical text-book level that the practical side is neglected and people remain in their former state.

If people just believed what the Bible teaches, and were doers of the word and not hearers only, we would not have to worry about things like what is required for salvation, can you lose your salvation, is it all predestinated or do you choose or any of these other debates that are dividing the Churches, unnecessarily might I add.

If we were doers of the word, we would not ask do I need water baptism to be saved, because we would obey the Scriptures and get water baptized, we would not have to worry about the behind the scenes workings of God as it pertains to salvation, all we are told to do is read it, believe it, live it. I just used that one as an example, there are many more examples like this.
 
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I do not see the phrase working with the grace of God or anything like that in the Scriptures. The Bible does teach that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, perhaps that is what the man is talking about.

I am not a Roman Catholic because I believe they are violating the commandments by having statues and bowing to them and asking saints to offer prayers for them. The Bible teaches there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. I have read their apologetics and explanations as to how they get around that commandment but I was not impressed.

The fact that the Pope is even called "The Pope" is a red flag for any Bible believer, because we are not to call no man our Father, especially in a religious sense and that is precisely what the Catholics do.
 
The gospel message is simple...coming to the recognition that we are in need of a savior and placing our faith in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and that He paid for our sins so we don't have to. Otherwise, we die in our sins which is a much bigger burden to carry than to accept by faith what God has done for us. If you don't have this faith ask God with sincerity to give you the faith to believe and He will.
 
I can understand why people didnt watch the video. I have my own biases too towards sola scriptura. If i was raised sola scriptura, I might have the same prejudices towards Catholicism.
no problem. thanks for posting.
 
Magenta said:
It is a defined dogma of the RCC (defined by two ecumenical councils and confirmed by two reigning popes), that not only is salvation impossible outside the Church but that to be saved one must be baptized in the RCC, profess the Catholic faith and participate in the Communion of the RCC. A dogma is a teaching that every Roman Catholic must believe as a matter of faith - that is, without reservation - or else they will lose their salvation (so says the RCC).
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." <- The words of Jesus in Matthew 7:13.
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the current CCC states that some exceptional cases can be saved outside the Church in special circumstances.
 
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