Counting of Sabbath days

[posthuman]

This is not related to Sabbath days....

then why did he say "regardeth a day" if he's talking about vegetables?

was there a "vegetarian day" in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century AD that i am unaware of?

see Colossians chapter 2.

i believe Paul mentions the observing of special days as an illustration, because for the Gentiles he was writing to, it was easier to understand that a religious festival or observance of a day was only a shadow of the truth than it was for them to see the truth about dietary laws.

oddly enough, i put that scripture to justify you being interested in special days - not to condemn you. i am not your judge over sabbaths and new moons, and you are not my judge over them either.

 

[just-me]

The new moon is not a Sabbath. It is not holy time set apart. Celebrating the new moon is a good idea, one can have Bible study and dedicate the month to the Eternal, but it is not a holy convocation.

How do you understand this?
Numbers 28:9-11
9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
11 And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;
I read it as the sabbath day are with 2 lambs 4 times per month, and 7 lambs at the beginning of the month along with the 2 lambs of the sabbath and the 2 lams of the daily. Continual burnt offerings are every day with 2 lambs also. Numbers 28:1-8

I again quote Ezekiel 46:1 that I take as the same day, and not 2 different days. Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

The reason I think this 1st day of the month is a Sabbath day is because there is an ordinance to keep the doors closed for 6 days. If the weekly Sabbath was different, and fell on 1 of those 6 days, there would have been an exception written in this verse to compensate.

 

[directline2iam]

Why, oh why, don't you just relax into the Sabbath rest we have in Christ - where we have ceased from works and come under His grace....

So much simpler to just make every day into a Sabbath with our Lord, and rest one day a week for your own health - emotionally and physically.

So much simpler to just follow Gods Word: Heb 4:9

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

9. therefore—because God "speaks of another day" (see on [2548]Heb 4:8).

remaineth—still to be realized hereafter by the "some (who) must enter therein" (Heb 4:6), that is, "the people of God," the true Israel who shall enter into God's rest ("My rest," Heb 4:3). God's rest was a Sabbatism; so also will ours be.

a rest—Greek, "Sabbatism." In time there are many Sabbaths, but then there shall be the enjoyment and keeping of a Sabbath-rest: one perfect and eternal. The "rest" in Heb 4:8 is Greek, "catapausis;" Hebrew, "Noah"; rest from weariness, as the ark rested on Ararat after its tossings to and fro; and as Israel, under Joshua, enjoyed at last rest from war in Canaan. But the "rest" in this Heb 4:9 is the nobler and more exalted (Hebrew) "Sabbath" rest; literally, "cessation": rest from work when finished (Heb 4:4), as God rested (Re 16:17). The two ideas of "rest" combined, give the perfect view of the heavenly Sabbath. Rest from weariness, sorrow, and sin; and rest in the completion of God's new creation (Re 21:5). The whole renovated creation shall share in it; nothing will there be to break the Sabbath of eternity; and the Triune God shall rejoice in the work of His hands (Zep 3:17). Moses, the representative of the law, could not lead Israel into Canaan: the law leads us to Christ, and there its office ceases, as that of Moses on the borders of Canaan: it is Jesus, the antitype of Joshua, who leads us into the heavenly rest. This verse indirectly establishes the obligation of the Sabbath still; for the type continues until the antitype supersedes it: so legal sacrifices continued till the great antitypical Sacrifice superseded it, As then the antitypical heavenly Sabbath-rest will not be till Christ, our Gospel Joshua, comes, to usher us into it, the typical earthly Sabbath must continue till then. The Jews call the future rest "the day which is all Sabbath."

 

[just-me]

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Just-me 9:30 we aren't

 

[Yahshua]

[...]

So my questions are these: Do the Biblical weekly Sabbaths begin with every month with a new moon, or are only the feast days calculated by the new moons?
Did the weekly Sabbaths become tradition after the exile of Israel?

I can find no record of weekly Sabbaths being observed or differentiating from the new moon cycle in the Old Testament. [...]

I'd like to do a bit more research when I have the free time so I can post a more thorough reply to try to answer your questions. But I believe the weekly Sabbath is separate from the new moon cycle.

If we go back in Genesis 1 to the first week, technically the 1st day of the month was the 4th day of the week. Since our word "month" comes from moon, and because we count new months whenever the moon is "renewed" (i.e. "Rosh Chodesh"), technically the 1st month began when the moon was first created as the second great light in the sky.

This means the "7th" day of the very 1st week was technically the 4th day of the very 1st month. So I'd say they've been independent of each other since the beginning.

To the other part of your question; new moons alone don't begin a biblical year because God also said Israel was to look for the barley crop to be "aviv" (i.e. "abib" or "in the ear" or ripe for harvesting). Ex 9:31; Ex 12:1; Ex 13:4 The fist month must be an "Aviv" month.

If the barley crop wasn't ripened/aviv there wouldn't be any barley to prepare for the Unleavened Bread feast that was to follow 14 days later at evening (on the 15th of the month), and no first fruit offering. So if the barley doesn't ripen by the end of the last month of a biblical year, an additional month needs to be added to the calendar. And once Unleavened Bread is reached, The Day of First Fruits follows as the very next "1st day of the week" (i.e. I'll say the very next "Sunday" for our understanding). Following that, Israel is to count seven Sabbaths from The Day of First Fruits to reach Shavuot (i.e. "The Feast of Weeks/Sevens").

Now regardless of how new moons are witnessed - or how Sabbaths are counted from Unleavened Bread - I merely added this second part to show that not even the feast days are solely calculated by new moons either. It's just more proof that we are to yield to God's timing.

 

[KohenMatt]

How do you understand this?
Numbers 28:9-11
9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
11 And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;
I read it as the sabbath day are with 2 lambs 4 times per month, and 7 lambs at the beginning of the month along with the 2 lambs of the sabbath and the 2 lams of the daily. Continual burnt offerings are every day with 2 lambs also. Numbers 28:1-8

Every day (Numbers 29:3-8):
2 lambs
1/10 ephah flour, 1/4 hin of oil
1/4 hin strong drink twice a day

7th-Day Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10):
Every Day Offerings
2 more lambs
2/10 ephah flour with oil
Drink Offering

New Moon (Numbers 28:11-14):
2 bulls
1 ram
1 ewe lambs
6/10 ephah flour w/ oil (1/10 per bull)
2/10 ephah flour for the ram
7/10 ephah flour (1/10 per lamb)
1/2 hin per bull)
1/3 hin wine for ram
1/4 hin wine per lamb

While still in the section on New Moon offerings, here's the key:
Numbers 28:14-15
"this is the burnt offering of each month throughout the months of the year.15 And one male goat for a sin offering to the Lord; it shall be offered with its drink offering in addition to the continual burnt offering."

It says the New Moon offerings are in addition to the continual offerings, but it doesn't mention that they are in addition to the Sabbath offerings. God makes the distinction for each of these days, but only ties the New Moon to the daily offerings.

I again quote Ezekiel 46:1 that I take as the same day, and not 2 different days. Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

The reason I think this 1st day of the month is a Sabbath day is because there is an ordinance to keep the doors closed for 6 days. If the weekly Sabbath was different, and fell on 1 of those 6 days, there would have been an exception written in this verse to compensate.

Ezekiel was talking about a different temple in the future, and the offerings to be given upon possession of it.
In addition, the passage in Ezekiel isn't valid for determining the Sabbaths and times and seasons that God set up centuries before in the Law. That would indicate that either:
a) All of God's people were wrong or were lacking up until Ezekiel or
b) God changed His mind and the days He said were eternal were no longer eternal

With all due respect, I think you're trying to tie different things together.

 

[just-me]

Ezekiel was talking about a different temple in the future, and the offerings to be given upon possession of it.
In addition, the passage in Ezekiel isn't valid for determining the Sabbaths and times and seasons that God set up centuries before in the Law. That would indicate that either:
a) All of God's people were wrong or were lacking up until Ezekiel or
b) God changed His mind and the days He said were eternal were no longer eternal

With all due respect, I think you're trying to tie different things together.

Thank you. I reckon what I connect is that Sabbath means seventh. I suppose my real point was to identify a situation that we really don't know the real 7th day is according to the original. We don't know whether it was at the beginning of every month or not. We know that it begin in Lyar, but I don't even know the year that manna was offered so we don't know where the count begins. Maybe no one knows except the angels, the Father and the Son. It is according to the will of God to rest on His Sabbath days, or in our perilous situation of what we call the 7th day.

Here's the crux in definition. I am resting my garden this year because I planted it after the first rest 7 years ago. It works real good naturally because I've done this for years, and that is an analogy of the weekly Sabbath. Unless you planted your garden the same year as I did, your garden sabbath would not be the same year as mine.

I have seen much bickering about which day was the Sabbath day, and that debate can be (and is) never ending. Most people, such as ourselves, do see Saturday as the Sabbath but that doesn't mean it correlates with the first true Sabbath. It obviously doesn't correlate with the feasts as we observe them today. Whether that's right or wrong I will not begin to judge. Colossians 2:16

I cannot prove that the 2nd day from a new moon is the beginning of a new week any more than someone else can prove that it isn't. We both have our routines as to why we do what we do. So in reality, it isn't wrong to assemble on Saturday or call Sunday a Sabbath either. Who knows? The real weekly Sabbath could be any day beginning with Monday all the way through Friday. We are compelled to live by the Gregorian calendar today and we all are doing our best to obey our Lord's Commandments, hopefully in Spirit rather than works alone.

Love ya man. Really. Even though I cannot see your face or hear your tone of voice.

 

[KohenMatt]

Thank you. I reckon what I connect is that Sabbath means seventh. I suppose my real point was to identify a situation that we really don't know the real 7th day is according to the original. We don't know whether it was at the beginning of every month or not. We know that it begin in Lyar, but I don't even know the year that manna was offered so we don't know where the count begins. Maybe no one knows except the angels, the Father and the Son. It is according to the will of God to rest on His Sabbath days, or in our perilous situation of what we call the 7th day.

Here's the crux in definition. I am resting my garden this year because I planted it after the first rest 7 years ago. It works real good naturally because I've done this for years, and that is an analogy of the weekly Sabbath. Unless you planted your garden the same year as I did, your garden sabbath would not be the same year as mine.

I have seen much bickering about which day was the Sabbath day, and that debate can be (and is) never ending. Most people, such as ourselves, do see Saturday as the Sabbath but that doesn't mean it correlates with the first true Sabbath. It obviously doesn't correlate with the feasts as we observe them today. Whether that's right or wrong I will not begin to judge. Colossians 2:16

I cannot prove that the 2nd day from a new moon is the beginning of a new week any more than someone else can prove that it isn't. We both have our routines as to why we do what we do. So in reality, it isn't wrong to assemble on Saturday or call Sunday a Sabbath either. Who knows? The real weekly Sabbath could be any day beginning with Monday all the way through Friday. We are compelled to live by the Gregorian calendar today and we all are doing our best to obey our Lord's Commandments, hopefully in Spirit rather than works alone.

Love ya man. Really. Even though I cannot see your face or hear your tone of voice.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to just-me again.

 

[Karraster]

Brother Just -me, I see you doubting many things..but you can be sure that Messiah knew which day He was keeping. Altho the Jews have been scattered all over the world, time has not been lost, for they are in agreement about when the 7th day is. The Sabbath Day is still in tact. In the early 4th century, Constantine knew which day the 7th was.

There are many more things I could add, but it would be pointless for a man who must see for himself. I hope and pray you find the answers you seek.

 

[john832]

then why did he say "regardeth a day" if he's talking about vegetables?

was there a "vegetarian day" in 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century AD that i am unaware of?

see Colossians chapter 2.

i believe Paul mentions the observing of special days as an illustration, because for the Gentiles he was writing to, it was easier to understand that a religious festival or observance of a day was only a shadow of the truth than it was for them to see the truth about dietary laws.

oddly enough, i put that scripture to justify you being interested in special days - not to condemn you. i am not your judge over sabbaths and new moons, and you are not my judge over them either.

Because there were those who regarded every Tuesday and Thursday as a fast day.

 

[Elin]

We have scripture telling us one day in seven is blessed by God in a special way for us, and what we are to do about that. We also have scripture that explains exactly what Christ changed for us. There is no scripture that says that Christ changed this that His Father told us about, Christ listened to His Father and obeyed this, and Christ told us to do the same. So, if you are a Christian, why would you tell us to leave God out of your one day of rest so you can devote it to your emotional and physical self? It seems so strange that once a fleshly idea enters a mind, there is no way that the spirit of the Lord can get it out and saying you are so holy that every day is your Sabbath is not logical even, but your flesh could not hear that, we know.

This is not RedTent.

Where is RedTent? Is she okay?

 

[john832]

This is not RedTent.

Where is RedTent? Is she okay?

How many times must you post this?