Daniel’s “Final Week” (70th Week) Has ALREADY Been Fulfilled

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Another awesome infallible proof text for me thanks!

Matthew 23:38–39 is one of the clearest passages showing that Israel’s rejection of Messiah is judicial, temporary, and destined to end in national repentance.


“Behold, your house is left unto you desolate” announces judgment upon the existing Temple order and the generation represented by Israel’s religious leadership. The Temple had formerly been called Christ’s “Father’s house,” but after the nation’s official rejection of His Messiahship, Jesus calls it “your house.” Its divine glory was departing, and its destruction would follow in AD 70. This corresponds to Daniel 9:26: after Messiah is “cut off,” Jerusalem and the sanctuary are destroyed.


Yet Jesus does not say that Israel will never see Him again. He says:




The word “till” establishes a termination point. Israel’s separation from Messiah continues only until the nation reverses its rejection and welcomes Him with the messianic declaration of Psalm 118:26. Thus the passage contains both judgment and hope: desolation now, recognition later.


This fits naturally with the interval between Daniel’s sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. Daniel 9:26 places Messiah’s death and Jerusalem’s destruction after the sixty-nine weeks, while Daniel 9:27 describes the still-future seventieth week. The events mentioned between them cannot be compressed into the seventieth week itself. Matthew 23:38–39 describes the same prophetic suspension: Messiah is rejected, the Temple is abandoned to judgment, and Israel remains unable to see Him until a future national confession.


The verse does not by itself calculate the full duration of the gap, but it proclaims the theological reality that makes the gap necessary. Israel’s messianic program is not cancelled; it is interrupted during a period of national blindness. Paul later expresses the same truth:




Again, “until” means that Israel’s blindness has a divinely appointed end. Paul continues: “And so all Israel shall be saved” and insists that God’s gifts and calling are irrevocable. Israel remains nationally beloved because of the patriarchal covenants, even while temporarily estranged through unbelief.


The future repentance anticipated by Jesus occurs under the pressures of the final tribulation. Israel will recognize that the One previously rejected was indeed Messiah. Zechariah describes the nation looking upon the One whom they pierced and mourning for Him; Hosea foretells Israel acknowledging its offence and seeking the Lord in affliction; and Psalm 118 supplies the exact words Jesus says they must utter.


Therefore Matthew 23:38–39 destroys replacement theology. Christ did not pronounce the permanent abandonment of Israel. He pronounced the desolation of the unbelieving Temple establishment and the temporary withdrawal of His visible presence. The same nation that rejected Him will one day call upon Him.


The logic is unmistakable:


Messiah is rejected at the conclusion of the sixty-nine weeks; Jerusalem and the Temple are judged during the intervening period; Israel remains under partial blindness; the seventieth week ultimately brings the nation to repentance; and Christ returns when Israel welcomes Him as the blessed One who comes in the name of the Lord.


The passage is therefore both a sentence of judgment and an unconditional prophecy of Israel’s eventual conversion.
Nope. After the 7 and 62 weeks, the Messiah was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, then the desolation.

I agree with you on the denouncement of replacement theology. Nonetheless, 70th week was already fulfilled by Jesus. "A strong covenant for one week" was meant for the majority of the Jews, afterward Paul and Barnabas went to the Gentiles. The 70th week didn't bring the nation of Israel to repentance, instead it was the ultimatum for the nation of Israel to repent! The result - the Lord's followers did, the elites didn't, the city ended up in flame and desolation.
 
The only thing bogus is the addition of your 7 year tribulation narrative. Jesus has fulfilled all 70 weeks, vision and prophcy were sealed to the nation of Israel till the end of time. Also, the desolation part was reaffirmed.

See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matt. 23:38-39)

Fast forward to the end time, you know what's on the schedule? The opposite of that, the opening of the seals, literally in Rev. 6-7.
Please, allow me help you:

Act 7:13
“And the second time Joseph was made known to his brothers, and Joseph's family became known to the Pharaoh.

You can thank me later.
 
Nope. After the 7 and 62 weeks, the Messiah was cut off in the middle of the 70th week, then the desolation.

I agree with you on the denouncement of replacement theology. Nonetheless, 70th week was already fulfilled by Jesus. "A strong covenant for one week" was meant for the majority of the Jews, afterward Paul and Barnabas went to the Gentiles. The 70th week didn't bring the nation of Israel to repentance, instead it was the ultimatum for the nation of Israel to repent! The result - the Lord's followers did, the elites didn't, the city ended up in flame and desolation.
Jesus. "A strong covenant for one week"

So you say the God-Man Jesus Christ is actually the Satan-man the little horn the beast the greater Goliath the greater Judas (or maybe Judas himself...!) who deceives Israel into a covenant that he will break and then turn against them in an effort to destroy them all?

Sorry, not buying it. For very many very good very obvious reasons.
 
If you think you are winning the debate then the panel of judges must consist of only two people - you and Fruchtenbaum lol


It seems to me like it is "let's make it so complicated, nobody can or wants to understand it, let alone try to refute."

All is a bunch of extrapolation made to fit a futurist agenda.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: WayneNSO and cv5
It seems to me like it is "let's make it so complicated, nobody can or wants to understand it, let alone try to refute."

All is a bunch of extrapolation made to fit a futurist agenda.

It is not complicated it is just verbal trash, reading into the text what is not there etc. It is a waste of time trying to open his eyes he is to far gone. He is like a junkie on smack, and Fruchtenbaum is his dealer. Just like a junkie has to want to get straight, so he has to want the truth. At the moment he does not, he just wants to swamp/spam those trying to show him. This is why I am not bothering correcting him, just had a bit of fun poking the bear :)
 
None of these has anything to do with the CONTEXT of the 70 week prophecy. At the beginning of chapter 9, Daniel read and understood the reason behind the 70 year exile, which was God's retribution for Israel's violation of 70 shemitah years, which were also 490 years - CONTINUOUSLY, with no gap; he knelt down and prayed to God, for His mercy and forgiveness; before he finished, God answered his prayer, archangel Gabriel appeared to him, and revealed to him another 70 of 7s, another 490s years of grace and restoration; afterward, though, when this period was finished, it will be abomination of desolation, till the end of the church age, which was confirmed in Lk. 21:24. "After the 62 weeks" in 9:26 is just referring to all that's bound to happen afterwards; the fate of desolation is repeated in 9:26 and 9:27, those are ONE desolation after 70AD, not one after another. Jesus the Messiah was cut off in the middle of the final week, and he thus ended the sacrifice and offering - by rendering himself as the ultimate sacrifice and offering.
Ok let's walk thru this:

March 14, 445 B.C.: the imperial decree given by King Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia to Nehemiah to rebuild the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2).

April 6, A.D. 32 : Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (10th Nisan, the Lamb inspection day).

Total elapsed time : 483 (360) day years = 173,880 days.

So you are tacking on 176,400 days to whatever the date might be of Daniels prayer?

Daniel 9:1–2 states that the prophecy was received:
"...in the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans..." which is about 539BC.

The Result:
Subtracting your additional 490 prophetic years (176,400 days) from 539 B.C. lands in late 57 B.C. or early 56 B.C.

What is relevant about 57 B.C.?

Absolutely nothing.
 
It seems to me like it is "let's make it so complicated, nobody can or wants to understand it, let alone try to refute."

All is a bunch of extrapolation made to fit a futurist agenda.
Sure a lot of people aren't packing the gear to comprehend these matters.

Please allow me to make the following objective and realistic self-assessment and confession, as it might give others hope:

-I am not a scholar.
-I am not particularly bright or brilliant or intelligent.
-I am a rather poor student.
-I really do not enjoy a particular good memory
-I am a nobody gentile without pedigree or status

What I do possess however is brute perseverance, determination, grit and resolve to apprehend the truth. Because I earnestly desire it.

So don't let any of your crippling defects prevent you from securing theses astounding eschatological truths.
 
Ok let's walk thru this:

March 14, 445 B.C.: the imperial decree given by King Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia to Nehemiah to rebuild the city of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2).

April 6, A.D. 32 : Triumphal Entry of Jesus into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (10th Nisan, the Lamb inspection day).

Total elapsed time : 483 (360) day years = 173,880 days.

So you are tacking on 176,400 days to whatever the date might be of Daniels prayer?

Daniel 9:1–2 states that the prophecy was received:
"...in the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans..." which is about 539BC.

The Result:
Subtracting your additional 490 prophetic years (176,400 days) from 539 B.C. lands in late 57 B.C. or early 56 B.C.

What is relevant about 57 B.C.?

Absolutely nothing.
See how he twists and deceives ? Nehemiah took over from Ezra that was not the start of countdown. Nor was the date that Daniel received the prophecy the start of it.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The prophecy tells us the weeks commence with the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

Ezra 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

The majority of historians and bible scholars date this decree at 457 B.C.

If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D.

Jesus the son of God became the anointed one or Messiah when he was baptised in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which was 27 A.D.

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

This marks the start of the 70th week and the start of the earthly ministry of the Messiah.
 
BTW I only replied to his last deception to show how he deceives - he knows what the scriptures say in Daniel Chapter 9 but ignores it and creates a straw man argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
See how he twists and deceives ? Nehemiah took over from Ezra that was not the start of countdown. Nor was the date that Daniel received the prophecy the start of it.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The prophecy tells us the weeks commence with the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

Ezra 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

The majority of historians and bible scholars date this decree at 457 B.C.

If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D.

Jesus the son of God became the anointed one or Messiah when he was baptised in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which was 27 A.D.

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

This marks the start of the 70th week and the start of the earthly ministry of the Messiah.

Very helpful. Thank you!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cv5
See how he twists and deceives ? Nehemiah took over from Ezra that was not the start of countdown. Nor was the date that Daniel received the prophecy the start of it.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The prophecy tells us the weeks commence with the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem

Ezra 7:11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.

The majority of historians and bible scholars date this decree at 457 B.C.

If we apply 483 years to 457 B.C. we arrive at the year 27 A.D.

Jesus the son of God became the anointed one or Messiah when he was baptised in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which was 27 A.D.

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

This marks the start of the 70th week and the start of the earthly ministry of the Messiah.
Your claims are a well known hoax ROFL.

The claim that "the majority of historians and Bible scholars date this decree at 457 B.C." is **highly misleading and historically inaccurate**.

While 457 B.C. is an important date in certain theological circles (specifically within Seventh-day Adventist eschatology to anchor their 1844 "Investigative Judgment" timeline), it is considered **bogus as the starting point for Daniel's 69/70-week prophecy** by the vast majority of mainstream historians, archaeologists, and biblical scholars.

Two primary factors prove why using 457 B.C. as the "decree to restore and build Jerusalem" is historically and textually unsustainable:

### 1. The Textual Proof: The 457 B.C. "Decree" Did Not Authorize Rebuilding the City
The year 457 B.C. corresponds to the **7th year of King Artaxerxes I**, when he issued a decree to the priest Ezra (recorded in **Ezra 7:11–26**).
If you actually read the text of Artaxerxes’ decree in Ezra 7, **it does not contain a single command to rebuild the city, its walls, or its streets.** Instead, the decree strictly authorizes:
* The return of Jewish exiles to Judea.
* Financial grants and tax exemptions for the **Temple in Jerusalem** (buying bulls, rams, and grain for sacrifices).
* The beautification of the Temple building.
* The establishment of local magistrates to teach the Law of Moses.
Daniel 9:25 explicitly states that the countdown begins with the command **"to restore and build Jerusalem... the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times."**

By contrast, the decree that actually matches Daniel's criteria was issued 13 years later in **445 B.C.** (the 20th year of Artaxerxes, recorded in **Nehemiah 2**). In this decree, Nehemiah specifically asks the king for permission to rebuild *"the city of my fathers' tombs, which lies waste,"* and the king grants him letters to secure timber *"for the gates of the citadel... and for the city wall."*

To use 457 B.C. as the starting point, one must ignore the actual text of Ezra 7, which is exclusively ecclesiastical and temple-focused, not civic or structural.
### 2. The Historical & Archaeological Proof: Nehemiah's Shock in 445 B.C.
If a major imperial decree to "restore and rebuild the city and its walls" had been issued and executed starting in 457 B.C., Nehemiah’s reaction in 445 B.C. makes absolutely no sense.
| Year | Event | Nehemiah's Reaction |
|---|---|---|
| **457 B.C.** | Ezra arrives in Jerusalem under the 7th-year decree of Artaxerxes. | Ezra focuses entirely on religious reforms, temple worship, and the issue of intermarriage (Ezra 9–10). |
| **445 B.C.** | Hanani arrives in Susa and gives Nehemiah a report on Jerusalem (Neh 1:2-3). | He reports: *"The wall of Jerusalem is also broken down, and its gates are burned with fire."* |
When Nehemiah hears this in 445 B.C., he is devastated: he weeps, fasts, and prays for days (Neh 1:4). If a decree to rebuild the city walls had been active for 12 years (since 457 B.C.), the walls would not still be lying in charred ruins, nor would Nehemiah have been so utterly shocked by the news. The city was still defenseless because **no decree to rebuild the walls had yet been issued.**
### Summary of the Fallacy
The assertion that "most scholars" support 457 B.C. is a classic case of **theological circular reasoning**.
1. Some commentators *start* with the assumption that Jesus was baptized in A.D. 27.
2. They count backward 483 solar years (69 \times 7).
3. This lands them in **457 B.C.**
4. They then retroactively label Ezra 7 as the "decree to rebuild the city," even though the actual text of Ezra 7 says nothing about rebuilding the city walls.
Secular historians and mainstream biblical commentators recognize **March 445 B.C.** (Nehemiah 2) as the only historically and textually valid imperial decree that authorized the reconstruction of the physical ci
ty and walls of Jerusalem.
 
  • Love
Reactions: LTTexan
What I do possess however is brute perseverance, determination, grit and resolve to apprehend the truth. Because I earnestly desire it.


Something is not lining up because there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week.
One has to read that into the text.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: GaryA and cv5
Very helpful. Thank you!
As you can see, your comrade has suffered yet another ignominious, yet oh so necessary defeat.

Contending with the late great Sir Robert Anderson while unaware and ill-equipped is bound to result in spectacular epic failure.
 
Something is not lining up because there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week.
One has to read that into the text.
The Church Age does not constitute a gap?

Perish the thought! 🥲
 
Something is not lining up because there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week.
One has to read that into the text.
I think its best to ignore cv5's post else we will spend a lifetime correcting all the errors and for what ? Let him post to himself - I reckon we put him on the naughty chair and ignore cries for attention lol
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: cv5 and HeIsHere
Something is not lining up because there is no gap between the 69th and 70th week.
One has to read that into the text.

cv5 - "As you can see, your comrade has suffered yet another ignominious, yet oh so necessary defeat."

He is that influenced by that Russian Jewish theologian that he even calls me your comrade, I need one of those fluffy hats they wear :) Just in case he bamboozled you over what I said was the start date - here's a little more info comrade:

Ezra 9:9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.
The first 69 weeks are split into two periods, the first being 7 weeks or 49 years. Daniel tells us that during this period "the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:25

Ezra did not succeed in rebuilding of the walls until Nehemiah arrived thirteen years later, in Nehemiah 4 verses 17 to 18 we read:

Nehemiah 4:17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.

The building of the walls was one of Nehemiah's main missions, see Nehemiah chapter 2. It took him 52 days to complete the task. And they had to build whilst being attacked by enemies. Hence the workers having a trowel in one hand and a sword in the other. And this rebuilding did indeed take 49 years, with the commissioning of Ezra and then Nehemiah. And it was in troublous times, just as the angel Gabriel told Daniel it would be. This period extends from 457 B.C. to 408 B.C.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: cv5 and HeIsHere
I think its best to ignore cv5's post else we will spend a lifetime correcting all the errors and for what ? Let him post to himself - I reckon we put him on the naughty chair and ignore cries for attention lol

Yes agree, I think sometimes it is up to God to remove the scales from the eyes, when one has immersed themselves a certain false system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WayneNSO