T
Therapon
Guest
Since Daniel is provably out of chronological order, don't you think we should be wondering why?
Any comments?
Any comments?
Last edited by a moderator:
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Many of the books are out of chronological order. Especially the minor prophets such as Hosea and Habakkuk and so on. many believe that Job was the first written.
I have even heard ( don't know for sure but you can google for yourself) That Enoch wrote a book and if it is proven. That it would be the oldest book in the world. Said to be a recent discovery by the orthodox Jews of Israel.
T
Therapon
Guest
Well, Daniel is the only book in the Bible where chapters are deliberately placed out of chronological order. Chapters 7 and 8 were written before chapter 5, and chapter 9 was written before chapter 6.
What I'm getting at is this: in 12:4 God commanded Daniel to "Seal and conceal these words until the time of the end," then in 12:9, God told Daniel, "These words are sealed and concealed until the time of the end."
Now 12:4 is a command, so Daniel has to do something between 12:4 and 12:9 to seal the book. However, Daniel couldn't rewrite or in any way change what the Kodesh Ruach (the Holy Spirit) had already inspired him to write, but he must have done something. And what do we find? Some of Daniel's chapters are rearranged out of chronological order! That isn't just a careless scribal error, it is deliberate, but what does it mean?
What I'm getting at is this: in 12:4 God commanded Daniel to "Seal and conceal these words until the time of the end," then in 12:9, God told Daniel, "These words are sealed and concealed until the time of the end."
Now 12:4 is a command, so Daniel has to do something between 12:4 and 12:9 to seal the book. However, Daniel couldn't rewrite or in any way change what the Kodesh Ruach (the Holy Spirit) had already inspired him to write, but he must have done something. And what do we find? Some of Daniel's chapters are rearranged out of chronological order! That isn't just a careless scribal error, it is deliberate, but what does it mean?
Last edited by a moderator:
I figured it was in the order that the visions were given. Just like revelation.
The prophecies make more sense when one realizes it isn't in chronological order
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
T
Therapon
Guest
LOL, are you sure you want to know? OK, OK, I'll do it, but first we need to look at something else unique about Daniel. His book is written in two languages: Daniel 2:4 through 7:28 are in Chaldee, the court language of the Babylonians which later morphed into the Aramaic spoken by Jesus (in fact, the first vision in Daniel 2, the great image, was given to Nebuchadnezzar, a gentile king), while Daniel 8 through 12 is in Hebrew.
Those two languages show the book to be bifidc, i.e., that Daniel, like Isaiah, is split into two separate halves, giving us figurative pictures of different future events that would take place during the same time frame.
But why the two languages?
L
_lost_words_
Guest
The chronological order of the Bible is done via prophecy. Daniel was a prophet, so he prophesied about a lot of events that took place in chronological order after receiving visions from God. One of the most easily read is the prophecy about the Physical fall of the kingdom of Babylon, in which Daniel described in detail what kingdoms would attack Babylon, what would happen to those kingdoms - and accurately covered 400 or so years of detailed prophecy on how Babylon fell.
In chronological order.
Prophecy, please pray to understand prophecy or else the Bible will remain sealed.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Maybe he wanted us to search out the truth. . .as buried treasure!
My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding-- indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and FIND the knowledge of God.
My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding-- indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and FIND the knowledge of God.
Thats what i was thinking to
Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV)
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great princewhich standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time oftrouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: andat that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be foundwritten in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shallawake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Most denominations say only the good rise at the 1st ressurection. The 1Cor.15 event. They also say only the bad rise at the great white thrown. Scripture above has them both rising at the same time. Both good and bad
T
Therapon
Guest
Exactly! Now let's go back a bit and look at when two specific prophets were placed in time and why. The first, Hosea. When Israel was about to fall to the Assyrians 725-721 B.C., God commanded Hosea to prophesying to the northern kingdom what their future would be after they were dispersed into Gentile lands, specifically into the Caucasus Mountains region. His prophecy continues to be fulfilled unto this day.
The second, Daniel, Was placed when he was for exactly the same reason. The Jews were taken captive to Babylon in 606 B.C. where they remained in captivity for 70 years just as Jeremiah had prophesied, until 536 B.C. But Daniel is split in two, so he has a dual message: Chapters 2 through 7 are about the four major Gentile empires (and their descendents) who will have dominion over the holy land during "the time of the Gentiles." Chapters 8 through 12 are to the Jews, and about their coming Messiah and their future during that same "time of the Gentiles."
But both halfs are chiasms, a well-known and universally accepted Hebrew poetic form that's the key to properly interpreting both Daniel and Revelation.
So what is a chiasm?
Last edited by a moderator:
P
peterT
Guest
Hi wall.
I think that might be referring to the second resurrection after the 1000 years if finished
The people that survive the tribulation then the wrath of God
The people that get saved during our reign with Christ that thousand years on earth
It’s the only way I can see it fitting.
What do you think?
C
cfultz3
Guest
i know why it's nonsense.
all been "well thought-out"
nothing to debate.
ellis needs this unbiblical assertion to make is other stuff work.
not explaining anything to you, though?