Dare To believe in Jesus the messiah

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damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#21
Ok, I do have to apologize, because you had two relavant quote. The other one is John 8:58. I do agree Jesus was there before Abraham born. Ref:"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)"[/QUOTptureE]


Hi Musa, this scripture is referring to Jeremiah. Saying he was a prophet, called in the womb. Jeremiah is very interesting. Some of the prophecies still will come to pass.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#22
To Musa, how do you believe you will make it to heaven?
What must you do to be saved?
Do you follow the Torah?
Have you heard of the new covenant?

Jesus asked Peter, who do you say that i am? Peter replied; thou art the Christ, the son of the living God. Peter replied
flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father which is in heaven he has revealed this to you.
The word became flesh and dwelt among us. (Jesus) the son of the I Am, Elohim,

1 Timothy 2:5
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.…
Galations3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#23
Ps. it is a pleasure talking with you! I love discussing the word, and forgive me if i have misunderstood you.
So you are a believer in Christ?
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#24
Find me a single verse in the entire Bible where Jesus said or even clearly hint "I am God" or "worship me" I AM READY TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANITY TODAY. And if not, I hope you can reconsider Islam, and inshallah you will be guided.

Of course....the quintessential cookie-cutter Islamic polemic, repeated by the scripturally ignorant masses.

Here, from the Holy Bible, Jesus Himself directly states that He is God, succinctly as requested...


ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

o nikōnklēronomēsei tauta kai esomai autō theos kai autos estai moi uios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to
Me. (Rev 21.7)




Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.




Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.


But wait....even the authors of the Koran claim that Jesus is God.


Here, from the Koran, Jesus is stated to be God:



Jesus Knows the Hour



Twice, in sura 43, Jesus Christ (i.e. the Son), is accurately described as possessing knowledge of The Resurrection…


ولما ضرب ابن مريم مثلا إذا قومك منه يصدون وقالوا ءألهتنا خير أم هو ما ضربوه لك إلا جدلابل هم قوم خصمون إن هو إلا عبد أنعمنا عليه وجعلنه مثلا لبني إسرءيل ولو نشاء لجعلنا منكم ملئكة في الأرض يخلفون وإنه لعلم للساعة فلا تمترن بها واتبعون هذا صرط مستقيم



Walamma duriba ibnu maryama mathalan itha qawmuka minhu yasiddoona waqaloo aalihatuna khayrun am huwa ma daraboohu laka illa jadalan bal hum qawmun khasimoona in huwa illa AAabdun anAAamna AAalayhi wajaAAalnahu mathalan libanee isra-eela walaw nashao lajaAAalna minkum mala-ikatan fee al-ardi yakhlufoona wa-innahu laAAilmun lilssaAAati fala tamtarunna biha waittabiAAooni hatha siratun mustaqeemun



And only Mary's Son, held up (as) a sign on your nation, from Him they start raising clamor. And they said: "Are our gods better or He?” That they set Him forth to you except disputation, but they, a nation (of) contentious people. Indeed He except a slave; we have bestowed blessings on Him, and we made Him a sign to Israel’s sons. And if we will, truly we made from your angels upon the earth, they succeed. And truly He (has) knowledge to The Resurrection, so have no doubt on account of it, and follow Me, this exact right path. (43.57 – 61)




Here, only Jesus Christ is described as being a sign to the people.


Jesus is stated to be an exception (i.e. in a class all by Himself, via “illa”) both to the disputing people, and also as a mere slave.


Jesus is shown to be in deity status as He is compared against the people’s gods. Further, Jesus is stated to have angels upon the earth, and that He possesses indisputable knowledge regarding the Resurrection.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------



قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدين سبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما يصفون فذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم وتبارك الذي له ملك السموت والأرض وما بينهما وعنده علم الساعة وإليه ترجعون ولا يملك الذين يدعون من دونه الشفعة إلا من شهد بالحق وهم يعلمون



Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu watabaraka allathee lahu mulku alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma waAAindahu AAilmu alssaAAati wa-ilayhi turjaAAoona wala yamliku allatheena yadAAoona min doonihi alshshafaAAata illa man shahida bialhaqqi wahum yaAAlamoona



Say: "
Indeed on account of the most merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the heavens and the earth’s Lord, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. And exalted whom certainly His, King (of) the heavens and the earth and what is between them and with Him is the knowledge of the Resurrection, and to Him you are taken back. And has no power to prevail whom they call from superior to Him, The Intercession, except He; He bore witness on account of The Truth and them, they know. (43.81- 86)




Again, sura 43 proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) possesses knowledge of the Resurrection (AAilmu alssaAAati).



Jesus Christ, the subject of these ayahs, also has these things revealed about Him:


  • Jesus is worshiped as the Most Merciful
  • Jesus is Lord of the heavens and earth
  • Jesus is King of the heavens and earth
  • Jesus is Lord of the Throne
  • Jesus is God upon the Cloud
  • Jesus is God upon the Earth
  • Jesus is The Intercession
  • Jesus is The Witness
  • Jesus is The Truth
  • None are superior to Him
  • Jesus takes back those who are His on the Day of Resurrection





Not surprisingly, these ayahs are proclaiming Jesus’ return on a Cloud, on the Day of the First Resurrection, just as found in Revelation chapter fourteen.





You reject the Bible.



Are you now going to reject your Koran?





 

Musa

Banned
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#25
Of course....the quintessential cookie-cutter Islamic polemic, repeated by the scripturally ignorant masses.

Here, from the Holy Bible, Jesus Himself directly states that He is God, succinctly as requested...


ο νικων κληρονομησει ταυτα και εσομαι αυτω θεος και αυτος εσται μοι υιος

o nikōnklēronomēsei tauta kai esomai autō theos kai autos estai moi uios

The one overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be God to him, and he will be the son to
Me. (Rev 21.7)




Observe that “Theos” is in the nominative case, indicating that Jesus is the subject of the verb “esomai” establishing Him as God.




Further, observe that Jesus establishes that His deity is directly interchangeable with the Father, making the ones overcoming, the sons to Him.


But wait....even the authors of the Koran claim that Jesus is God.


Here, from the Koran, Jesus is stated to be God:



Jesus Knows the Hour



Twice, in sura 43, Jesus Christ (i.e. the Son), is accurately described as possessing knowledge of The Resurrection…


ولما ضرب ابن مريم مثلا إذا قومك منه يصدون وقالوا ءألهتنا خير أم هو ما ضربوه لك إلا جدلابل هم قوم خصمون إن هو إلا عبد أنعمنا عليه وجعلنه مثلا لبني إسرءيل ولو نشاء لجعلنا منكم ملئكة في الأرض يخلفون وإنه لعلم للساعة فلا تمترن بها واتبعون هذا صرط مستقيم



Walamma duriba ibnu maryama mathalan itha qawmuka minhu yasiddoona waqaloo aalihatuna khayrun am huwa ma daraboohu laka illa jadalan bal hum qawmun khasimoona in huwa illa AAabdun anAAamna AAalayhi wajaAAalnahu mathalan libanee isra-eela walaw nashao lajaAAalna minkum mala-ikatan fee al-ardi yakhlufoona wa-innahu laAAilmun lilssaAAati fala tamtarunna biha waittabiAAooni hatha siratun mustaqeemun



And only Mary's Son, held up (as) a sign on your nation, from Him they start raising clamor. And they said: "Are our gods better or He?” That they set Him forth to you except disputation, but they, a nation (of) contentious people. Indeed He except a slave; we have bestowed blessings on Him, and we made Him a sign to Israel’s sons. And if we will, truly we made from your angels upon the earth, they succeed. And truly He (has) knowledge to The Resurrection, so have no doubt on account of it, and follow Me, this exact right path. (43.57 – 61)




Here, only Jesus Christ is described as being a sign to the people.


Jesus is stated to be an exception (i.e. in a class all by Himself, via “illa”) both to the disputing people, and also as a mere slave.


Jesus is shown to be in deity status as He is compared against the people’s gods. Further, Jesus is stated to have angels upon the earth, and that He possesses indisputable knowledge regarding the Resurrection.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------



قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العبدين سبحن رب السموت والأرض رب العرش عما يصفون فذرهم يخوضوا ويلعبوا حتى يلقوا يومهم الذي يوعدون وهو الذي في السماء إله وفي الأرض إله وهو الحكيم العليم وتبارك الذي له ملك السموت والأرض وما بينهما وعنده علم الساعة وإليه ترجعون ولا يملك الذين يدعون من دونه الشفعة إلا من شهد بالحق وهم يعلمون



Qul in kana lilrrahmani waladun faana awwalu alAAabideena subhana rabbi alssamawati waal-ardi rabbi alAAarshi AAamma yasifoona fatharhum yakhoodoo wayalAAaboo hatta yulaqoo yawmahumu allathee yooAAadoona wahuwa allathee fee alssama-i ilahun wafee al-ardi ilahun wahuwa alhakeemu alAAaleemu watabaraka allathee lahu mulku alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma waAAindahu AAilmu alssaAAati wa-ilayhi turjaAAoona wala yamliku allatheena yadAAoona min doonihi alshshafaAAata illa man shahida bialhaqqi wahum yaAAlamoona



Say: "
Indeed on account of the most merciful Son, so I myself the worshippers' first.” Glory be to the heavens and the earth’s Lord, the throne's Lord, from what they ascribe. So leave them alone; they indulged and they jest until they meet their day whom they were threatened. And He, whom upon the cloud, God, and upon the earth, God, and He, the wise, the one who knows. And exalted whom certainly His, King (of) the heavens and the earth and what is between them and with Him is the knowledge of the Resurrection, and to Him you are taken back. And has no power to prevail whom they call from superior to Him, The Intercession, except He; He bore witness on account of The Truth and them, they know. (43.81- 86)




Again, sura 43 proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) possesses knowledge of the Resurrection (AAilmu alssaAAati).



Jesus Christ, the subject of these ayahs, also has these things revealed about Him:


  • Jesus is worshiped as the Most Merciful
  • Jesus is Lord of the heavens and earth
  • Jesus is King of the heavens and earth
  • Jesus is Lord of the Throne
  • Jesus is God upon the Cloud
  • Jesus is God upon the Earth
  • Jesus is The Intercession
  • Jesus is The Witness
  • Jesus is The Truth
  • None are superior to Him
  • Jesus takes back those who are His on the Day of Resurrection





Not surprisingly, these ayahs are proclaiming Jesus’ return on a Cloud, on the Day of the First Resurrection, just as found in Revelation chapter fourteen.





You reject the Bible.



Are you now going to reject your Koran?





Clearly you done a nice copy and paste job. Because even Christian who red this will laugh at you. I do not even want to explain because I hate teach primary school English. As it saids in the verse. If sth happens, I will do another thing. But clearly thing 1 does not happen to be true, therefore thing 2' can not be triggered. This is common sense as I believe. And I do think your next part shows the typical Christian, just because someone have something miraculous they must be God? Then I think you have to believe Superman is God as well.
 

Musa

Banned
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#26
Ok, I do have to apologize, because you had two relavant quote. The other one is John 8:58. I do agree Jesus was there before Abraham born. Ref:"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 1:5)"[/QUOTptureE]


Hi Musa, this scripture is referring to Jeremiah. Saying he was a prophet, called in the womb. Jeremiah is very interesting. Some of the prophecies still will come to pass.
I was short in time there so I did not explain properly. I am talking about the fact that everyone was known to God from the beginning so it simply means they ar there before Abraham was born.
 

Musa

Banned
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#27
To Musa, how do you believe you will make it to heaven?
What must you do to be saved?
Do you follow the Torah?
Have you heard of the new covenant?

Jesus asked Peter, who do you say that i am? Peter replied; thou art the Christ, the son of the living God. Peter replied
flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father which is in heaven he has revealed this to you.
The word became flesh and dwelt among us. (Jesus) the son of the I Am, Elohim,

1 Timothy 2:5
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.…
Galations3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
To answer your questions, 1,by the mercy of God, it is enough for us to go to heaven. We believe God is not someone that would hold everyone in sin for what Adam and Eve did, then come down to earth commit suicide in order to save and deceive people. 2, it depends on God, who will be saved. But for you to be saved, if you are amanoo(believe God is one and only) you will be saved, one day for sure, but u might go to hell for a few years just to be purified, then go to heaven. Then if u are amilus(do good deeds) its most likely you do not have to suffer the pain of hell at all. 3.we do not believe the Torah today to be the Torat sent down by God Almighty. The law of Sharia is a more justified version of Torah law, the fact that muchmore evidence is needed for a punishment to take place, prevents people from being misjudged.4'.well, I guess you want to talk about the new law of Paul the Jew. I know that, but I would not believe in a Jew claiming to be Christian, who never seen Jesus and making up every story to create the religion of Catholi sm.
 

Musa

Banned
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#28
Ps. it is a pleasure talking with you! I love discussing the word, and forgive me if i have misunderstood you.
So you are a believer in Christ?
You often hear Christian reverts to Islam say:"I feel more like a Chri stian than I ever did when I was actually a Christian
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#29
Clearly you done a nice copy and paste job. Because even Christian who red this will laugh at you. I do not even want to explain because I hate teach primary school English. As it saids in the verse. If sth happens, I will do another thing. But clearly thing 1 does not happen to be true, therefore thing 2' can not be triggered. This is common sense as I believe. And I do think your next part shows the typical Christian, just because someone have something miraculous they must be God? Then I think you have to believe Superman is God as well.

The exegesis is mine....and I have never come across a follower of islam who can even begin to refute it.

It kinda takes the wind right out of them....just like we see that it did with you.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#30
To answer your questions, 1,by the mercy of God, it is enough for us to go to heaven. We believe God is not someone that would hold everyone in sin for what Adam and Eve did, then come down to earth commit suicide in order to save and deceive people. 2, it depends on God, who will be saved. But for you to be saved, if you are amanoo(believe God is one and only) you will be saved, one day for sure, but u might go to hell for a few years just to be purified, then go to heaven. Then if u are amilus(do good deeds) its most likely you do not have to suffer the pain of hell at all. 3.we do not believe the Torah today to be the Torat sent down by God Almighty. The law of Sharia is a more justified version of Torah law, the fact that muchmore evidence is needed for a punishment to take place, prevents people from being misjudged.4'.well, I guess you want to talk about the new law of Paul the Jew. I know that, but I would not believe in a Jew claiming to be Christian, who never seen Jesus and making up every story to create the religion of Catholi sm.

The Koranic concepts of Heaven & Hell were taken from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

Study up...
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#31
Show us in the Koran where your god 'allah' says....'I am God, worship me'.
 
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#32
The exegesis is mine....and I have never come across a follower of islam who can even begin to refute it.

It kinda takes the wind right out of them....just like we see that it did with you.
Your own?! Who taught you English? A PE teacher? We are not like you Christians, accept whatever interpretion being made by anyone. We only accept the authentic interpretion which fits basic English logic. Not some explanation which a 3 year old English speaker would laugh at.
 
Jan 30, 2015
38
0
0
#33
The Koranic concepts of Heaven & Hell were taken from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

Study up...
Revalation did not have more than 20 verses on heaven and hell. Christians believe hell is a fire pit. We say it is a "raging beast", an angel called "Malik" is in there. Christians do not believe in 7 heavens. So LOL.
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#34
Your own?! Who taught you English? A PE teacher? We are not like you Christians, accept whatever interpretion being made by anyone. We only accept the authentic interpretion which fits basic English logic. Not some explanation which a 3 year old English speaker would laugh at.
Unlike you, I can backup my renderings.

You are defeated before you even begin, with that attitude of yours...
 
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#35
Revalation did not have more than 20 verses on heaven and hell. Christians believe hell is a fire pit. We say it is a "raging beast", an angel called "Malik" is in there. Christians do not believe in 7 heavens. So LOL.
Not only did the authors of the Koran wholesale copy the Biblical concepts of Heaven & Hell directly from the Biblical Book of Revelation, but they used the Book's material to compose >75% of the Koran, itself!!!

You should be thankful for the Book of Revelation....for without it, your Koran would be pretty empty...
 
E

EdisonTrent

Guest
#36
In order for this to be true. I can not measure how much of an assumption you have to make. Because the chance of Elizabeth misunderstood just like the Jews did in John chapter 10 is so high. With a small chance of this verse being fabracated, in addtion to mistranslation. And you own misunderstanding(because Abraham, Moses .etc were also being called Lord. So please be a bit more reasonable with this. Simply because Jesus said :"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."
When referring to the true God, the New Testament sometimes uses the Greek word kurios translated as "Lord." It is important that we have a correct understanding of the word because it is often misunderstood.It Does Not Always Refer To GodThe thought behind the word kurios is supremacy and authority. Kurios is used a number of different ways in the New Testament.The Word Can Mean SirSometimes the word is merely a polite title meaning, "Sir."
"Sir," [kurios] they said, "We remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise again.' " (Matthew 27:63).
It Also Means Master Or OwnerIn some contexts it has the idea of a title such as, "Master," or "Owner."
A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master [kurios] (Matthew 10:24).
Kurios Can Refer To HusbandsEven husbands are called by the word kurios.
Thus Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him master [kurios] (1 Peter 3:6).
The Word Was Used Of IdolsPaul uses the plural of kurios to refer to idols.
Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods [kurios] in heaven or on earth-as in fact there are many gods and many lords (1 Corinthians 8:5).
It Can Also Mean The LORD (Yahweh Or Jehovah)There are many times, however, that kurios is equivalent to the divine name Yahweh, or Jehovah.
But Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord (Acts 15:40).
Jesus Is Addressed As Both Human And DivineWe find Jesus being addressed by the human and divine usages of kurios. The polite form of kurios meaning, "Sir," is used. In John's gospel Jesus met a woman at a well in Samaria. She addressed Him as kurios (sir).
The woman said to him, "Sir (kurios), you have no bucket, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? (John 4:11).
There are other times when kurios speaks of Jesus' full Deity as God the Son.
So that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:10,11).
Paul wrote to the Romans.
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9).
Divine And Human Usage In The Same VerseWe find both uses of kurios in the same verse.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters {kurios] in everything, not only while being watched and in order to please them, but wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord [kurios] (Colossians 3:23).
SummaryThe Greek word kurios has a number of different meanings other then God, Yahweh, etc.. It can mean sir, master, owner, or even refer to an idol.