Descended from Israel vs Belonging to Israel

[michael56]

In fact, most of them are being captured/ransacked/raped...as your own provided quote explains[/B].

the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. [SUP]3[/SUP]Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[SUP][a][/SUP] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. [SUP]13 [/SUP]On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. [SUP]15 [/SUP]A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech ch 14

Didn't you read on??

 

[michael56]

Yes, and...???

Whose position are you out to prove...yours or mine?

Friend, what is it about "I WILL GATHER ALL THE NATIONS TO JERUSALEM TO FIGHT AGAINST IT" that you don't understand? IOW, Who do you suppose the "I" is?

This coincides PERFECTLY with what we read in relation to GOD putting it within the heart of the beast, the Antichrist, and the nations who will give their power to him, to "HATE THE WHORE" in that "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OR HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) is none other than JERUSALEM:

Revelation chapter 17

[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Yes, friend, what you quoted will be "fulfilled" when JERUSALEM is attacked in fulfillment of God's command.

So much for "and all Israel shall be saved" with "all Israel" allegedly referring to "all NATURAL Israel".

You need a lot of help, friend.

Again, what you quoted has to do with the time of Christ's return when He comes to sit upon the throne of David and to reign over the earth from JERUSALEM as prophesied throughout both the Old and New Testaments, but this says NOTHING about all NATURAL Israel being saved. In fact, most of them are being captured/ransacked/raped...as your own provided quote explains.

The word of the Lord Almighty came to me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is what the Lord says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City, and the mountain of the Lord Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each of them with cane in hand because of their age. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?” declares the Lord Almighty.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Now hear these words, ‘Let your hands be strong so that the temple may be built.’ This is also what the prophets said who were present when the foundation was laid for the house of the Lord Almighty. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Before that time there were no wages for people or hire for animals. No one could go about their business safely because of their enemies, since I had turned everyone against their neighbor. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as I did in the past,” declares the Lord Almighty.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“The seed will grow well, the vine will yield its fruit, the ground will produce its crops, and the heavens will drop their dew. I will give all these things as an inheritance to the remnant of this people. [SUP]13[/SUP]Just as you, Judah and Israel, have been a curse[SUP][a][/SUP] among the nations, so I will save you, and you will be a blessing.[SUP][b][/SUP] Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Just as I had determined to bring disaster on you and showed no pity when your ancestors angered me,” says the Lord Almighty, [SUP]15 [/SUP]“so now I have determined to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. [SUP]16 [/SUP]These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts; [SUP]17 [/SUP]do not plot evil against each other, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this,” declares the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The word of the Lord Almighty came to me.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “The fasts of the fourth, fifth, seventh and tenth months will become joyful and glad occasions and happy festivals for Judah. Therefore love truth and peace.”
[SUP]20[/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you

Zechariah 8

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Well as Sophia was asking me questions, I thought it only fair she should answer mine, I thought that was titled debate, what these sites are for. To be honest, I didn't think much of your explanation , so ignored it

Of course, there could be another explanation as to why you were so troubled!! Thankfully in the spirit filled churches I have attended they recognise the truth of the plain words of the scriptures and do not let their natural theological mind lead them astray

So, you're willingly ignorant? I could have told you the same. Anyhow, it wasn't "my explanation", but John's revelation which he received via Jesus and His angel:

Revelation chapter 1

[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
[4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

You apparently believe yourself to be wiser than Jesus Christ, His angel and the Apostle John and you've been citing ME verses about "the wisdom of this world"?

Like I said, friend, you need A LOT of help.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

The word of the Lord Almighty came to me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is what the Lord says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City, and the mountain of the Lord Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each of them with cane in hand because of their age. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?” declares the Lord Almighty.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.[SUP]8 [/SUP]I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Now hear these words, ‘Let your hands be strong so that the temple may be built.’ This is also what the prophets said who were present when the foundation was laid for the house of the Lord Almighty. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Before that time there were no wages for people or hire for animals. No one could go about their business safely because of their enemies, since I had turned everyone against their neighbor. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as I did in the past,” declares the Lord Almighty.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“The seed will grow well, the vine will yield its fruit, the ground will produce its crops, and the heavens will drop their dew. I will give all these things as an inheritance to the remnant of this people. [SUP]13[/SUP]Just as you, Judah and Israel, have been a curse[SUP][a][/SUP] among the nations, so I will save you, and you will be a blessing.[SUP][b][/SUP] Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong.”
[SUP]14 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Just as I had determined to bring disaster on you and showed no pity when your ancestors angered me,” says the Lord Almighty, [SUP]15 [/SUP]“so now I have determined to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. [SUP]16 [/SUP]These are the things you are to do: Speak the truth to each other, and render true and sound judgment in your courts; [SUP]17 [/SUP]do not plot evil against each other, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this,” declares the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The word of the Lord Almighty came to me.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “The fasts of the fourth, fifth, seventh and tenth months will become joyful and glad occasions and happy festivals for Judah. Therefore love truth and peace.”
[SUP]20[/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you

Zechariah 8

What is it about "the REMNANT of this people" that you don't understand? Do you even bother reading what you quote?

 

[michael56]

So, you're willingly ignorant? I could have told you the same. Anyhow, it wasn't "my explanation", but John's revelation which he received via Jesus and His angel:

Revelation chapter 1

[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
[4] John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

You apparently believe yourself to be wiser than Jesus Christ, His angel and the Apostle John and you've been citing ME verses about "the wisdom of this world"?

Like I said, friend, you need A LOT of help.

That is a strange accusation to make, as you obviously believe you know more than so many OT prophets of God, and you believe yourself wise enough to dismiss their plainly written words.

Incidentally, if I need a lot of help so do the ministers of the mainstream churches I have belonged to. One, a couple of weks ago said it was a miracle the Jews had kept their national identity for so long since the exile. He then went on to speak of God's sovereign plan for them being unfolded now and future blessings specific to the Jews according to the bible. Doubtless you feel he has not been as enlightened as you are.
If you know more than he for example, why are you not a minister? Or if you are, how come you have the time to spend on cc?

 

[michael56]

What is it about "the REMNANT of this people" that you don't understand? Do you even bother reading what you quote?

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Just as I had determined to bring disaster on you and showed no pity when your ancestors angered me,” says the Lord Almighty, [SUP]15 [/SUP]“so now I have determined to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Many peoples and the inhabitants of many cities will yet come, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and the inhabitants of one city will go to another and say, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the Lord and seek the Lord Almighty. I myself am going.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you

 

[michael56]

Again the word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]17 [/SUP]“Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. [SUP]18 [/SUP]So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ [SUP]21 [/SUP]I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. [SUP]23[/SUP]I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. [SUP]25 [/SUP]I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. [SUP]26 [/SUP]I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. [SUP]29 [/SUP]I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. [SUP]32 [/SUP]I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. [SUP]34 [/SUP]The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. [SUP]35 [/SUP]They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” [SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the Lord have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the Lord have spoken, and I will do it.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Once again I will yield to Israel’s plea and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep,[SUP]38 [/SUP]as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed festivals. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the Lord.” Ezekiel 36:16-38

 

[JesusistheChrist]

the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. [SUP]3[/SUP]Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[SUP][a][/SUP] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. [SUP]13 [/SUP]On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. [SUP]15 [/SUP]A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech ch 14

Didn't you read on??

Yes, I did "read on" and...???

Again, this describes the time of Christ's return when He will reign over the earth out of Jerusalem.

And...???

Prior to His return, Jerusalem, "the holy city", will be trodden under foot by the Gentile nations AT GOD'S COMMAND...

Revelation chapter 11

[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

...for 42 months or for 3 1/2 years. There will be A REMNANT of believing Jews in Judaea at this time and Christ told them to "flee to the mountains" so that they are not killed like many other Jews who will be killed at that time...

Matthew chapter 24

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

...and you think that all NATURAL Israel will be saved, citing Romans 11:26 as your alleged "proof text", while IGNORING THE FACT that Paul had previously, within this same epistle, defined who a real "Jew" is...

Romans chapter 2

[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

...and who a true "Israelite" is...

Romans chapter 9

[6] Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

...and plainly stated that only A REMNANT of natural Israelites or Jews will actually be saved:

"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" (Romans 9:27)

Again:

Romans chapter 11

[1] I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
[2] God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
[5] Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Again, you need A LOT of help, friend, in that you're stubbornly believing and teaching HERESY.

There's still time for you to come to your senses and repent. Avail yourself of the same before it is too late.

Revelation chapter 12

[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That is a strange accusation to make, as you obviously believe you know more than so many OT prophets of God, and you believe yourself wise enough to dismiss their plainly written words.

Incidentally, if I need a lot of help so do the ministers of the mainstream churches I have belonged to. One, a couple of weks ago said it was a miracle the Jews had kept their national identity for so long since the exile. He then went on to speak of God's sovereign plan for them being unfolded now and future blessings specific to the Jews according to the bible. Doubtless you feel he has not been as enlightened as you are.
If you know more than he for example, why are you not a minister? Or if you are, how come you have the time to spend on cc?

There's nothing the least bit "strange" about my "accusation". Again, Jesus Christ received a revelation from His Father when He rose from the dead and ascended back to heaven and He sent the same unto John via His angel. John's response to the same? Well, as I already cited, he said "Amen". You? You stubbornly refuse to say the same in that you think yourself to be wiser than Jesus Christ, His angel and the Apostle John.

As far as your "ministers" comments/questions are concerned, anybody who teaches contrary to the Word of God is a HERETIC. I'll keep my discussion in line with God's Word and you can keep your focus upon men if you'd like to.

 

[michael56]

Yes, I did "read on" and...???


...and you think that all NATURAL Israel will be saved, citing Romans 11:26 as your alleged "proof text", while IGNORING THE FACT that Paul had previously, within this same epistle, defined who a real "Jew" is...

Romans chapter 2

[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
.

I don't find much in what you have written worthy of reply, however:

You make the same mistake others do. If God, in his sovereign plan has set aside a time to save all the Jews alive at the time, he has the right to do so. He will draw them all to Christ. So your above reasoning is futile. They will then all be new covenant believers.

The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]] Heb 8:8-12

[/SUP]And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
Heb 12:8-14

I am afraid your bitterness and unhappiness at being questioned gives away much. How can you be trusted with much spiritual truth if you just want to be seen as a teacher? and get as upset as you do when people show your error according to scripture.

 

[michael56]

There's nothing the least bit "strange" about my "accusation". Again, Jesus Christ received a revelation from His Father when He rose from the dead and ascended back to heaven and He sent the same unto John via His angel. John's response to the same? Well, as I already cited, he said "Amen". You? You stubbornly refuse to say the same in that you think yourself to be wiser than Jesus Christ, His angel and the Apostle John.

As far as your "ministers" comments/questions are concerned, anybody who teaches contrary to the Word of God is a HERETIC. I'll keep my discussion in line with God's Word and you can keep your focus upon men if you'd like to.

You cannot keep in line with God's word, you have to dismiss so much of it, and have not the spiritual insight to understand what you do quote sadly. Facts speak louder than opinions. Israel became a nation again in 1948. The natural mind seeks to rationalise away why it happened. The mind led of the Holy Spirit understands it is the fulfilment of so much of the prophets of God's words.

 

[michael56]

Yes, I did "read on" and...???

Again, this describes the time of Christ's return when He will reign over the earth out of Jerusalem.

And...???

Prior to His return, Jerusalem, "the holy city", will be trodden under foot by the Gentile nations AT GOD'S COMMAND...

Revelation chapter 11

[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

...for 42 months or for 3 1/2 years. There will be A REMNANT of believing Jews in Judaea at this time and Christ told them to "flee to the mountains" so that they are not killed like many other Jews who will be killed at that time...

Matthew chapter 24

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

...and you think that all NATURAL Israel will be saved, citing Romans 11:26 as your alleged "proof text", while IGNORING THE .

They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke21:24
Try again

 

[michael56]

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 12:17

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. [SUP]2 Ezekiel 36:26&27

[/SUP][SUP]Who is this chapter mainly concerning? I can put it up again if it would help.
[/SUP]The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][[/SUP] Heb 8:8-12

Thank you for your scriptures

 

[michael56]

There's still time for you to come to your senses and repent. Avail yourself of the same before it is too late.

.

Lol, do you think this subject is a salvational matter? Your eternity hinges on whether or not you believe there are specific blessings for Jews in the end times? You need to get back to basics friend

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I don't find much in what you have written worthy of reply, however:

You make the same mistake others do. If God, in his sovereign plan has set aside a time to save all the Jews alive at the time, he has the right to do so. He will draw them all to Christ. So your above reasoning is futile. They will then all be new covenant believers.

The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]c[/SUP][SUP]] Heb 8:8-12

[/SUP]And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. [SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, [SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, [SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.
Heb 12:8-14

I am afraid your bitterness and unhappiness at being questioned gives away much. How can you be trusted with much spiritual truth if you just want to be seen as a teacher? and get as upset as you do when people show your error according to scripture.

"Bitterness"?

"Unhappiness"?

"Upset"?

"My error"?

Friend, I couldn't be happier, personally, in regard to your involvement in this thread in that it will continue to be my duty and pleasure to expose your HERESY for all to see. At the same time, however, I extract no pleasure whatsoever in the fact that you're so duped presently, but I'm still holding out some hope that you'll eventually repent and embrace the truth. Anyhow, here's the actual CONTEXT AND FULFILLMENT of your Jeremiah "quote" that you just butchered:

Hebrews chapter 8

[1] Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[2] A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Again:

Hebrews chapter 10

[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Those of us who actually understand scripture (that would exclude you) and who don't go around seeking to attribute their error to the Holy Spirit know full well that this "new covenant" IS ALREADY IN EFFECT. In fact, I'm personally a partaker of the same as are many others here on this forum. If not, then none of us would have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus" or by the blood of the New Testament...

"Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20)

...in that God would still remember our sins and iniquities. When Christ died on the cross, He broke down the middle wall of partition which separated Jews and Gentiles...

Ephesians chapter 2

[11] Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
[12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

...and it's that same exact wall that HERETICS like you seek to build back up with your "Dispensationalism" HERESIES. Like it or not, HERETIC, God is no respecter of persons and there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) in Christ Jesus as I've already documented from scripture in previous posts on this thread. Anyhow, have at erecting the wall of partition which Christ Himself broke down. It won't hurt me in the least and I also carry a big sledgehammer by which I'll demolish said wall while doing my best to see that nobody else here is duped by your error.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Lol, do you think this subject is a salvational matter? Your eternity hinges on whether or not you believe there are specific blessings for Jews in the end times? You need to get back to basics friend

Oh, I've been discussing the "basics" all along, HERETIC. Yes, you know (well, you don't, but many of the rest of us do), "basics" such like how Christ was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TO BE THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD while there was yet neither Gentile (and they came first, friend) nor Jew upon the face of the earth nor even an earth itself to inhabit. Yes, in spite of such "basics" as this, there will always be HERETICS like you who will not only insist that God has some sort of special covenant with a specific ethnic group, but who will also be so inherently evil as to seek to attribute such HERESY to the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

Anyhow, HERETIC, NO HERETIC will inherit the kingdom of God, so this is very much an issue which pertains to salvation:

Galatians chapter 5

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke21:24
Try again

Try what again?

To educate somebody as willingly ignorant as yourself?

No worries, friend, I'll do just that and not for your potential sake alone, but also for the potential sakes of those who are following this discussion...whether they are members or guests.

Here's a fuller version of your "quote":

Luke chapter 21

[20] And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
[21] Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[22] For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
[23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
[24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Compare this to Jesus' Olivet Discourse as recorded in Matthew chapter 24 and you will see that both Luke and Matthew were referring to the same exact things and to the same exact timeframe...the timeframe which immediately precedes Christ's second coming. As Luke recorded and as we just read, THERE SHALL BE GREAT DISTRESS IN THE LAND, with "the land" referring to Israel/Jerusalem, and many Israelites/Jews SHALL FALL BY THE EDGE OF THE SWORD. Who is going to send "the sword"? Again, if you'd read comparative texts, then you'd know that it will be GOD WHO WILL SEND THE SWORD...even as He did so many other times throughout Israel's history. Yes, this same God Who REPEATEDLY sent pestilences, plagues, invading armies, etc., etc. against Israel/Jerusalem and Who actually SWORE IN HIS WRATH that none of the first generation Israelites who came out of Egypt who were 20 years old and upward would enter into His rest or be saved except for Joshua and Caleb HAS SUDDENLY DECIDED THAT HE'S GOING TO SAVE A SPECIFIC GENERATION OF ISRAELITE/JEWS IN THE END TIMES BASED SOLELY UPON THEIR ETHNICITY...according to your HERESY.

Seriously, friend, just go and repent.

Anyhow, there are multiple aspects to "the TIMES of the Gentiles being FULFILLED". IOW, there are certain prophecies in relation to the Gentiles/the nations which will find their culmination and fulfillment at this point in time and one such fulfillment is in relation to what Paul ACTUALLY SAID in Romans 11:25:

Romans chapter 11

[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

IOW, seeing how God, unlike you, is no respecter of persons and seeing how God, unlike you, has broken down the middle wall of partition between Gentiles (they came first) and Jews and seeing how "the Israel of God" consists of BOTH believing Gentiles (they came first as I've already documented on this thread) AND believing Jews, "all Israel" cannot "be saved" until all of the Gentile Christians are saved first or "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".

For those who believe the Bible...

 

[michael56]

"Bitterness"?

"Unhappiness"?

"Upset"?

"My error"?

Friend, I couldn't be happier, personally, in regard to your involvement in this thread in that it will continue to be my duty and pleasure to expose your HERESY for all to see. At the same time, however, I extract no pleasure whatsoever in the fact that you're so duped presently, but I'm still holding out some hope that you'll eventually repent and embrace the truth. Anyhow, here's the actual CONTEXT AND FULFILLMENT of your Jeremiah "quote" that you just butchered:

Hebrews chapter 8

[1] Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[2] A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[3] For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[4] For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Again:

Hebrews chapter 10

[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
[15] Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
[21] And having an high priest over the house of God;
[22] Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Those of us who actually understand scripture (that would exclude you) and who don't go around seeking to attribute their error to the Holy Spirit know full well that this "new covenant" IS ALREADY IN EFFECT. In fact, I'm personally a partaker of the same as are many others here on this forum. If not, then none of us would have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus" or by the blood of the New Testament...

"Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20)

...in that God would still remember our sins and iniquities. When Christ died on the cross, He broke down the middle wall of partition which separated Jews and Gentiles...

Ephesians chapter 2

[11] Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
[12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
[18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

...and it's that same exact wall that HERETICS like you seek to build back up with your "Dispensationalism" HERESIES. Like it or not, HERETIC, God is no respecter of persons and there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) in Christ Jesus as I've already documented from scripture in previous posts on this thread. Anyhow, have at erecting the wall of partition which Christ Himself broke down. It won't hurt me in the least and I also carry a big sledgehammer by which I'll demolish said wall while doing my best to see that nobody else here is duped by your error.

Well when you take out the bluster, what is left? Very little. Yes, the new covenant is now in operation. I will write me laws in their mind..........

Now let us return to Hebrews 8:
The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]9[/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][

Who will all know God? Everyone on this earth? This scripture is specifically being referred to the people who broke the first covenant, who were they? I don't mean to be offensive, but you really need to try and progress from your shortsightedness and see the bigger picture. It is so plainly written, only being led of the natural mind can cause such error as yours. [/SUP]

 

[michael56]

Try what again?

To educate somebody as willingly ignorant as yourself?

No worries, friend, I'll do just that and not for your potential sake alone, but also for the potential sakes of those who are following this discussion...whether they are members or guests.

Here's a fuller version of your "quote":

Luke chapter 21

[20] And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
[21] Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[22] For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
[23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
[24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Compare this to Jesus' Olivet Discourse as recorded in Matthew chapter 24 and you will see that both Luke and Matthew were referring to the same exact things and to the same exact timeframe...the timeframe which immediately precedes Christ's second coming. As Luke recorded and as we just read, THERE SHALL BE GREAT DISTRESS IN THE LAND, with "the land" referring to Israel/Jerusalem, and many Israelites/Jews SHALL FALL BY THE EDGE OF THE SWORD. Who is going to send "the sword"? Again, if you'd read comparative texts, then you'd know that it will be GOD WHO WILL SEND THE SWORD...even as He did so many other times throughout Israel's history. Yes, this same God Who REPEATEDLY sent pestilences, plagues, invading armies, etc., etc. against Israel/Jerusalem and Who actually SWORE IN HIS WRATH that none of the first generation Israelites who came out of Egypt who were 20 years old and upward would enter into His rest or be saved except for Joshua and Caleb HAS SUDDENLY DECIDED THAT HE'S GOING TO SAVE A SPECIFIC GENERATION OF ISRAELITE/JEWS IN THE END TIMES BASED SOLELY UPON THEIR ETHNICITY...according to your HERESY.

Seriously, friend, just go and repent.

Anyhow, there are multiple aspects to "the TIMES of the Gentiles being FULFILLED". IOW, there are certain prophecies in relation to the Gentiles/the nations which will find their culmination and fulfillment at this point in time and one such fulfillment is in relation to what Paul ACTUALLY SAID in Romans 11:25:

Romans chapter 11

[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

IOW, seeing how God, unlike you, is no respecter of persons and seeing how God, unlike you, has broken down the middle wall of partition between Gentiles (they came first) and Jews and seeing how "the Israel of God" consists of BOTH believing Gentiles (they came first as I've already documented on this thread) AND believing Jews, "all Israel" cannot "be saved" until all of the Gentile Christians are saved first or "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".

For those who believe the Bible...

It is all so plain, this is tragic, it truly is:

Again the word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]17 [/SUP]“Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. [SUP]18 [/SUP]So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ [SUP]21 [/SUP]I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. [SUP]23 [/SUP]I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

Ezekiel 36:16-24

Please tell me, in your opinion who is being referred to here?

 

[michael56]

Oh, I've been discussing the "basics" all along, HERETIC. Yes, you know (well, you don't, but many of the rest of us do), "basics" such like how Christ was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD TO BE THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD while there was yet neither Gentile (and they came first, friend) nor Jew upon the face of the earth nor even an earth itself to inhabit. Yes, in spite of such "basics" as this, there will always be HERETICS like you who will not only insist that God has some sort of special covenant with a specific ethnic group, but who will also be so inherently evil as to seek to attribute such HERESY to the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

Anyhow, HERETIC, NO HERETIC will inherit the kingdom of God, so this is very much an issue which pertains to salvation:

Galatians chapter 5

[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

BTW

I have found those who most use the word heretic are people who are led more of their natural minds than spiritual truth