Despair Over the Future

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

pablocito

Guest
There are plenty of arguments we could all make about what we do or don’t agree about the Bible, contemporary Christianity, etc. But we can’t control a single aspect of it. What you’re looking for is control over every facet of your life and everything you don’t like about the world. You already know that kind of control doesn’t exist for people. And that appears to be what frustrates you.
There is a saying in the bible that the wheat and the tares should grow together till the time of harvest. But as Ecclesiastes 3 states that there is a time for everything under the sun, we have to step backwards and determine whether that applies to us or not, in these latter days.

There is a time to born and a time to die and they are not both at the same time. They are both exclusive of one another and happens in their own time.

A very important statement of Jesus was that we must have the ability to discern things, not just the weather but also the signs of the time. And that time for discerning is now, else how could we know good from evil. In fact the lack of discerning allows one to call "good" evil and "evil" good.

The bible is a living moving book, it is the book of life and not a static dead book that applies to the dead, that is, those who live in this end time period. Jesus also told those who would follow him, " Let the dead bury the dead"

So to the premise of your above statement - "What you’re looking for is control over every facet of your life", we have to understand that knowledge is key and as Hosea 4:6 states you will perish for lack of knowledge.

The bible does state not to accuse dignities, even Satan, because it is God who determines their actions etc. That is a given, they have been put to rule over us and only God has control over them and not us.

But Paul when talking about the brethren (and also John) tells us not to have anything to do with those who claim to be one of us and who at the same time refuse and reject the authority of God. (In other words they are worse than the ignorant or even those who are deceived or misled by others.)

2Co_6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
1Ti_5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. (We are expected to support and feed the flock and if we are breaking down, even when we lay claim to Christ we are worse than an infidel)

Therefore the final statement for our days here in the book of Revelation is to come out of them. (Paul says the exact same thing in Corinthians) else you will inherit the plagues that is about to come upon them.

Knowledge is key. Hosea 4:6 states - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Finally, as you said about the Gnostics, truly the Spirit transcends everything and the flesh profiteth nothing, therefore only those who have come into that truth (not just understanding it academically) but in spirit and in truth will truly be free.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
That's the problem. Why give humanity free will and then place them in conditions/circumstances they have essentially no control over (other than perhaps their emotional response to it, which isn't real control at all)? Why shouldn't we just accept the awfulness of this world when there's no point trying to change it? After all, trying to change things would be "playing God."
You keep saying that we are given freewill as the basis of your argument. I would challenge you to show me one verse in the entire bible where it is said that man is given free will. There is no such verse and that statement can only be arrived at from human deduction which is something that the bible forbids us to do.

I am sure that you will agree with me that we are nothing and that God is everything. It would be unloving of God to give "nothing" freewill.
The implications of freewill is that we are capable of determining our own future by choosing what is good for us (outside of God's will). If we are nothing how can we know anything. We are only something when God inputs something into us, otherwise we are as dead as a door nail. (And as you already know that Jesus said that God is able to raise up children unto Abraham from the very stones that paved the way (road) into Jerusalem.)

I do not like to get into philosophy as it goes round and round in a circle and eventually comes back to nothing often to nonsensical language and contradictions which is like a pit ready to swallow us up.

I will just state in this article that foundation is everything and if we have a wrong foundation (like sand), our house will eventually sink.
 
P

pablocito

Guest
Without even knowing it, millions of Christians have invited Gnosticism and its fatalistic attitudes into their spiritual lives. No wonder Christianity is now seen as irrelevant at best. We may be interested in piety (the definition of which will vary from person to person), but not in actually accomplishing anything.
This probably is my last response to this post and to you as I believe that there is nothing more to say. I believe that you are 99% along the way into the kingdom of God, but traversing that last 1% is critical, because if you cannot traverse it you could be damned to hell.

Christianity is a all or nothing proposition. You cannot truly believe in something 99% with 1% reservation. The 1% reservation will pull you down to hell.
The song "almost persuaded" results in a tragic end.

You may wonder what is the purpose of a dual life here on this earth, that of the flesh (physical body) and that of the Spirit.

I cannot tell you as you will have to strive for the answer yourself. Nothing is easy in life as the saying goes, "easy come, easy goes", " by the sweat of you brow, ye shall eat bread", also "by the sweat of your mind you will inherit eternal life".

The purpose of all work is to come into perfect rest. After you have worked then you can rest.

There is a one to one relationship of the body vs the Spirit, when you have figured it out you will be set free. One really is the shadow of the other and follows the other around. They are intricately woven together yet disparate and separate.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
Simply stated everyone, as I've stated before, the longer I remain a Christian, the harder it is for me to defend the popular/traditional concept of God in which a world of mass rape, genocide, slavery, etc. could possibly be allowed to exist. Do not give me that BS heretical doctrine of original sin. That was an invention of Augustine. People are not born evil. They learn it. I know it, and you know it. Nor can you blame Satan. He doesn't force people to sin.

I want to love God, but I don't like the way he runs the world. It's easy to defend him when you don't have to deal with what victims of the previously mentioned crimes have been forced to endure. Trying to defend God in this fashion is like trying to defend someone who could've pressed a button to stop a world destroying bomb but simply chose not to. All of the good they did does not erase the fact that they allowed that to happen.

Then again, I supposed I'll just be denounced by everyone here and maybe even by God himself as nothing but a proud b*tch.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
Simply stated everyone, as I've stated before, the longer I remain a Christian, the harder it is for me to defend the popular/traditional concept of God in which a world of mass rape, genocide, slavery, etc. could possibly be allowed to exist. Do not give me that BS heretical doctrine of original sin. That was an invention of Augustine. People are not born evil. They learn it. I know it, and you know it. Nor can you blame Satan. He doesn't force people to sin.

I want to love God, but I don't like the way he runs the world. It's easy to defend him when you don't have to deal with what victims of the previously mentioned crimes have been forced to endure. Trying to defend God in this fashion is like trying to defend someone who could've pressed a button to stop a world destroying bomb but simply chose not to. All of the good they did does not erase the fact that they allowed that to happen.

Then again, I supposed I'll just be denounced by everyone here and maybe even by God himself as nothing but a proud b*tch.
It could be helpful if you explore the attributes of God. Perhaps knowing who God actually is would lend some understanding.
We all have ideas about who God should be. We all hold error on who God says He is.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
It could be helpful if you explore the attributes of God. Perhaps knowing who God actually is would lend some understanding.
We all have ideas about who God should be. We all hold error on who God says He is.
Well, if you ask me, I have no idea why God would love us. If we're so utterly depraved, why continue allowing us to exist? We don't let criminals stay free because we love them. We put them in jail where they belong. Maybe that's why human extinction events in fiction are becoming increasingly popular. Humanity is waking up to just how screwed up we are, and how utterly hopeless we are, Christian or not. Christians sin, non-Christians sin. We're a failed experiment, pure and simple. If we all died out, the universe would not lose anything of value or significance. On the contrary, in fact.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
Well, if you ask me, I have no idea why God would love us. If we're so utterly depraved, why continue allowing us to exist? We don't let criminals stay free because we love them. We put them in jail where they belong. Maybe that's why human extinction events in fiction are becoming increasingly popular. Humanity is waking up to just how screwed up we are, and how utterly hopeless we are, Christian or not. Christians sin, non-Christians sin. We're a failed experiment, pure and simple.
If you take a macroscopic view of God and consider Genesis...what was God's plan?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
That he and he alone be worshipped. No more, no less. We're only pawns. Tools. Pets.
Actually, there is nothing greater to experience than God. And God always seeks His own glory. The difference between you and I seeking glory and God seeking glory is that when we do it we do so at the expense of others, God does it to the good of others.
Since God is most glorified as He is enjoyed, He created man to know Him and enjoy Him.

More to come...
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,426
7,249
113
Simply stated everyone, as I've stated before, the longer I remain a Christian, the harder it is for me to defend the popular/traditional concept of God in which a world of mass rape, genocide, slavery, etc. could possibly be allowed to exist. Do not give me that BS heretical doctrine of original sin. That was an invention of Augustine. People are not born evil. They learn it. I know it, and you know it. Nor can you blame Satan. He doesn't force people to sin.

I want to love God, but I don't like the way he runs the world. It's easy to defend him when you don't have to deal with what victims of the previously mentioned crimes have been forced to endure. Trying to defend God in this fashion is like trying to defend someone who could've pressed a button to stop a world destroying bomb but simply chose not to. All of the good they did does not erase the fact that they allowed that to happen.

Then again, I supposed I'll just be denounced by everyone here and maybe even by God himself as nothing but a proud b*tch.
Romans 3:4-6
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
Actually, there is nothing greater to experience than God. And God always seeks His own glory. The difference between you and I seeking glory and God seeking glory is that when we do it we do so at the expense of others, God does it to the good of others.
Since God is most glorified as He is enjoyed, He created man to know Him and enjoy Him.

More to come...
Problem is that everyone seeks glory. We all seek glory at the expense of others. We're all viruses, a mass living plague. For that matter, why should God be allowed to do something we can't? I thought morality was objective, but apparently, not so when it comes to God.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
Thus, that He might be glorified, He made man in His image and tasked man to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Had man not sinned, as He multiplied and filled the earth with God's Image, the glory of the Lord would have literally filled the earth at some point.

More to come...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
Problem is that everyone seeks glory. We all seek glory at the expense of others. We're all viruses, a mass living plague. For that matter, why should God be allowed to do something we can't? I thought morality was objective, but apparently, not so when it comes to God.
We'll come to this.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
But something happened along the way. Man sinned. And it's worth asking...since God could have kept sin from happening, why allow it?
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
Thus, that He might be glorified, He made man in His image and tasked man to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. Had man not sinned, as He multiplied and filled the earth with God's Image, the glory of the Lord would have literally filled the earth at some point.

More to come...
And yet, sin we all have. God can't have it both ways. He can't create humans who aren't robots and the expect them to act like robots. All parents are forced to face the fact that children grow up and have opinions of their own.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
The answer lies in God's desire to be glorified by making Himself known. The more that God is known, the more He is glorified.

More to come...
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
But something happened along the way. Man sinned. And it's worth asking...since God could have kept sin from happening, why allow it?
All I've seen is that Christianity has not made the world a better place. It's only given us an excuse to behave. No matter how much we work to cure people, or try to stop human trafficking, death and desire still remain supreme, and they always will.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,660
5,303
113
62
And yet, sin we all have. God can't have it both ways. He can't create humans who aren't robots and the expect them to act like robots. All parents are forced to face the fact that children grow up and have opinions of their own.
We will come to this too. I'm just trying to establish the backdrop for your questions.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
The answer lies in God's desire to be glorified by making Himself known. The more that God is known, the more He is glorified.

More to come...
Problem is, in his desire to be known, he's created a world filled with unending violence and evil. Even if he does make it all better in the end, no amount of cleaning things up will change the fact that that bad stuff happened.
 
Feb 20, 2016
1,151
266
83
We will come to this too. I'm just trying to establish the backdrop for your questions.
My point is that being a Christian does not make you a better person, nor does it make your life in this world at all better (if anything, it just makes it worse). All it is is that it's an afterlife contract, nothing more. People don't genuinely change. They only find excuses to behave. The longer I live and the more I see, the truer that gets.