Did He, Or Didn't He?

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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Hebrews 10 is about the high priest on the day of atonement. We enter the holy place through our high priest's undefiled conscience. He is the one with no conscience of sin. As we abide in him, we become like him.
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You treat the blood of Christ as if you were covering blemishes on your face: A little dab here, a little dab there....

How do you know when you've done enough? If you believe you have to atone for sins after salvation, you should be terrified to die - truly not knowing if you have one or several sins one your record at the moment of death.

Just one sin will damn you, because, yet again, God's standard is complete perfection.

We are to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)

Get it? You have to be as perfect as GOD HIMSELF.

"Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for His nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

If you still sin (and you know you do) by God's word, you are not born of God. How do you dance around verses like that? The Lord says those who are His, cannot sin.

Cannot sin.

Cannot.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
1 john 3:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5:18
[ Knowing the True—Rejecting the False ] We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

I am having trouble here. It seems John and Hebrews are apposed to each other, and contradicting.

Can you help me understand? They both can't be right can they>
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Great minds think alike! ;) I just posted something quite similar!
 
God is already reconciled Himself to us. Why do we seek to be reconciled when we already are? Why don't we just believe the gospel?...repent ( change your mind ) and BELIEVE the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Romans 5:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 5:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Having been reconciled = past tense and passive = passive means something has been done to you - not you doing it to yourself

Now we have the ministry of reconciliation and so we are telling all that your sins are forgiven in Christ. Believe and receive the forgiveness. Come to Him. He is your life!

2 Corinthians 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God,who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

 
1John 3: 4-10

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born [1] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

?
 
What did God do for us on the cross?

This is a key question. Some have said the cross was not enough he had to go to hell, and there be born again.
Some have said the sacrifice is for all mankind without restraint and all sin has been dealt with.
Some hold Jesus is the example, the healer, a demonstration of ultimate love and grace, a symbol of who God is.

For some daily contemplation of the cross is learning the mystery of forgiveness and love.

For some the righteousness of Christ is not just for the cross but is our righteousness, our justification and sanctification.
Some hold Jesus died spiritually became sin for us, and God averted his gaze.

The more you learn the more you understand this is very personal.

Some have no clue, or have spent time contemplating the last 16 hours of Jesus's life before the cross.
If you want to know what the cross means do this, know what death, the destruction of who you are, all your friends and security stripped from you, to be mocked tortured and finally hung until you die of exhaustian.

If you understand what this means, to touch it, to know you put Him there, then you will begin to see who Jesus was.
 
Here is a great short 2 minute video on Hebrews 10 for those interested...Hebrews 10 needs to be taken in context or that "text" will "con" you..

[video=youtube;yrc5EOpokSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc5EOpokSc[/video]
 
thepsalmist said:
1John 3: 4-10

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born [1] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

?
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No one is endorsing licentiousness. :) On the contrary, victory over sin under grace.
 
thepsalmist said:
Hebrews 10
26 "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left ...
... How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"


Grace grants us freedom from sin - through the power of the Holy Spirit... But if we use that freedom to sin deliberately we have insulted Jesus and abused the gift he offered us on the cross ... and there is no more sacrifice for sins left.
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You do realize that verse is about assurance that Jesus paid the penalty for all sins, don't you? It's saying Jesus will not go back to the cross to pay for sins. It was a one-time only event - payment in full.

Believers obey and serve God out of gratitude for what Jesus has done - not to secure favor with Him, or atone for sin.

And btw, do you still sin? Are all of your sins accidental - or deliberate? To use that verse the way you are, you've just condemned yourself.
 
Here is a longer more through look at Hebrews 10 in context....


[video=youtube;IJ0i7NEYufo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0i7NEYufo[/video]
 
thepsalmist said:
1John 3: 4-10

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born [1] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

?
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Again, to use those verses as you do, you keep condemning yourself. Unless you are one of those who believe they no longer sin.

And if you do believe such a thing, by God's word, you are a liar.
 
Budman said:
You do realize that verse is about assurance that Jesus paid the penalty for all sins, don't you? It's saying Jesus will not go back to the cross to pay for sins. It was a one-time only event - payment in full.

Believers obey and serve God out of gratitude for what Jesus has done - not to secure favor with Him, or atone for sin.

And btw, do you still sin? Are all of your sins accidental - or deliberate? To use that verse the way you are, you've just condemned yourself.
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Yeah,, It is like unless you think your sin is by accident, Your doomed..
 
If by faith we are righteous, but we keep the faith as we walk closer and closer to full righteousness, then it is true.
The dynamic is in faith, empowered by the Spirit we can walk righteously.

The key point is, is this our real goal? The cross opened up the way to make it possible.
But how many believe this?
 
PeterJens said:
If by faith we are righteous, but we keep the faith as we walk closer and closer to full righteousness, then it is true.
The dynamic is in faith, empowered by the Spirit we can walk righteously.

The key point is, is this our real goal? The cross opened up the way to make it possible.
But how many believe this?
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those who have real faith, and are born again, And witness first hand the love of God.. And become adopted children of God. who God said he will never leave nor forsake, and who would never want to leave God again.
 
Hebrews 10 is about the high priest on the day of atonement. We enter the holy place through our high priest's undefiled conscience. He is the one with no conscience of sin. As we abide in him, we become like him.
Click to expand...



The cross merely opened up the way?

the way to what? you to declare YOUR righteousness?

you aren't righteous if you are counting on YOUR faith

that is exactly the doctrine you say you do not espouse and yet here you go, declaring it once again loud and clear

can't help yourself I guess
 
ember said:



The cross merely opened up the way?

the way to what? you to declare YOUR righteousness?

you aren't righteous if you are counting on YOUR faith

that is exactly the doctrine you say you do not espouse and yet here you go, declaring it once again loud and clear

can't help yourself I guess
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In other words. He does not believe in the very thing he is proposing.
 
Budman said:
Again, to use those verses as you do, you keep condemning yourself. Unless you are one of those who believe they no longer sin.

And if you do believe such a thing, by God's word, you are a liar.
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You just endorsed this verse with an amen ... "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

But then you say "Unless you are one of those who believe they no longer sin." as an accusation.

That is really confusing


 
PeterJens said:
If by faith we are righteous, but we keep the faith as we walk closer and closer to full righteousness, then it is true.
The dynamic is in faith, empowered by the Spirit we can walk righteously.

The key point is, is this our real goal? The cross opened up the way to make it possible.
But how many believe this?
Click to expand...

Peter, if one has faith to believe they are a sinner, and can do nothing to save himself, and instead places his trust in the finished work of Christ as payment for their sins, there is nothing more that needs to be done. At that moment, that person is saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, and eternally secure.

We are saved by what He has done, not what we do. The Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. To say there are still sins yet to atone for, in any way, after salvation, is to require Jesus to come and shed more blood for those sins. Something He will not do.
 
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All I was pointing out is that our freedom in Christ is not a free-pass to sin ... I think that's very important to note.
 
And when I feel I have done something wrong I DO go to God in prayer and ask for his forgiveness and don't feel there is anything wrong with that ...
 
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