Did He, Or Didn't He?

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You just endorsed this verse with an amen ... "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

But then you say "Unless you are one of those who believe they no longer sin." as an accusation.

That is really confusing




There are two natures to every believer. Our old, sinful nature, and our new nature in Christ. Our old nature wars with the new - thus, we sin. Our new nature (Christ in us) does not, nor can, sin. Our salvation is based upon the new nature - thus, we can never be condemned, even though we sin in the flesh. Just like Paul was talking about in Romans 7.

See how those verses are reconciled?
 
All I was pointing out is that our freedom in Christ is not a free-pass to sin ... I think that's very important to note.

Indeed, and so true.

Titus 2:11-14King James Version (KJV)

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
 
And when I feel I have done something wrong I DO go to God in prayer and ask for his forgiveness and don't feel there is anything wrong with that ...


No there is not. Unless your doing it to get something in return, like salvation. then there is an issue.. It is self centered, not God centered.
 
it's pretty difficult to keep trying to hide what you are by what you accuse others of not being

that is what I see and understand here

on the one hand, 'we' know all about Christ (non-grace) but we have Him still nailed to the cross and every day we hope to learn to learn about the mystery of forgiveness and love

A mystery that is no mystery whatsoever if you believe in the gospel given once and for all

however, if you are trying to MAKE it a mystery because you somehow and mistakenly believe that your intellect surpasses the sufficient and all encompassing clarification and edification and revealing of the very AGENT sent by God to do the job, the HOLY SPIRIT, then you end up with a toxic mashup of humanism, philosophy and an attitude of judgement which, by its very nature dictates that you must defend yourself from all others or your world will....literally...cease to be...

apart from the fact it is proven a farce as far as biblical content and truth actually reveal
 
And when I feel I have done something wrong I DO go to God in prayer and ask for his forgiveness and don't feel there is anything wrong with that ...

There's nothing wrong with confessing to God when you've done wrong - but the point is, and has always been, that you are completely forgiven. Every future sin, just like your past sins, is under the blood.

Your sins are not a salvation issue. That matter was settled at the cross.

Yet, God will correct His wayward children, as any good parent would, but you will never be lost.
 

So the redeemer paid the price. But it will not go into effect unless the redeemed cashes in?

You do not understand redemption at all my friend.. There is no way you can possibly cash in your sin debt every time you sinned, You can not even know every sin you commit on a daily basis, all it would take was one sin to not be paid and you would be doomed forever.

How can we acknowledge sin that we don't know about? We are to acknowledge the ones we know about. It's all about a clean conscience. Yet it doesn't hurt to ask GOD to reveal to us the ones that we can't see.
 
This goes into the error of parental/relational forgiveness. Remember when Jesus was on the cross and the veil "rent in twain"? The veil was torn signifying that which separated man from God's presence has been taken care of. VVe are reconciled to God, our Heavenly Father. Jesus took care of sin, once and for all.

You have a strange god that you can sin against and have no relational responsibility. Sounds more like a figment of your imagination.
 
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How can we acknowledge sin that we don't know about? We are to acknowledge the ones we know about. It's all about a clean conscience. Yet it doesn't hurt to ask GOD to reveal to us the ones that we can't see.

Do you believe you get away scot-free because you have a bad memory?

See the hole you're digging for yourself?
 
Amen!..well said!

Our "old man" was crucified with Christ..he's a goner...died with Christ. But we still have the flesh with the power of sin still in it with it's habits and thoughts and desires. The flesh wars against our new creation in Christ ( our new man ) which as you say "cannot sin". Our true identity is in the new creation not in the flesh. I just wanted to make the distinction that who we really are is the new creation in Christ...we have His nature now.

2 Peter 1:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.



There are two natures to every believer. Our old, sinful nature, and our new nature in Christ. Our old nature wars with the new - thus, we sin. Our new nature (Christ in us) does not, nor can, sin. Our salvation is based upon the new nature - thus, we can never be condemned, even though we sin in the flesh. Just like Paul was talking about in Romans 7.

See how those verses are reconciled?
 
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Peter, if one has faith to believe they are a sinner, and can do nothing to save himself, and instead places his trust in the finished work of Christ as payment for their sins, there is nothing more that needs to be done. At that moment, that person is saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, and eternally secure.

We are saved by what He has done, not what we do. The Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. To say there are still sins yet to atone for, in any way, after salvation, is to require Jesus to come and shed more blood for those sins. Something He will not do.

I went to a church that believed this. They spent all their time expecting to enjoy heaven, but it never came, they were just at the gate. We are given entry into the Kingdom of heaven to walk. In justification we become part of the kingdom, in sanctification we start to walk in it and are transformed by our actions, communion and fellowship.

The church has always been easy on the starting point, but not the journey of faith.
It is why hyper-grace worries so many because this journey of faith is not the journey of the gospel but another faith and another type of relationship. It is why this groups teachers are a problem and their ideas about what a christian is, the value of transformation, of good works, of morality, of the law, of dispensational theology that creates different religions within the label christian.

Where I am is simple. We are saved through faith, but why be transformed.
One question is because without transformation you cannot be saved, ie the goal of faith is to become like Christ in all aspects.
The counter argument is the thief on the cross was never sanctified to be like Christ, yet he was with Him.
So the key change of salvation is the first step of faith.
The next point is sin blocks the path, but to loose salvation and regain it by repentance is clumsy.
Now if faith is the marker then being defeated by sin will destroy the faith in the end.

So walking in righteousness, supports faith, reinforces the fellowship and walking with Jesus.
Now if one says the more you want to retain of who you are, the more you need to learn to walk as Jesus walked, that is a good incentive. You are not earning salvation you are making it more real to more of you.
This would make sense to Pauls notion of handing someone over to satan for a rebuke, and being saved as if through fire.

Do I know? No. But I know what makes sense in righteousness and love terms, and can fill in a lot of gaps.
I will always be saved through faith in Jesus and what he has done, but how much of me? Maybe that is down to us.
 
You nailed it my NS sister!...






on the one hand, 'we' know all about Christ (non-grace) but we have Him still nailed to the cross and every day we hope to learn to learn about the mystery of forgiveness and love

A mystery that is no mystery whatsoever if you believe in the gospel given once and for all

however, if you are trying to MAKE it a mystery because you somehow and mistakenly believe that your intellect surpasses the sufficient and all encompassing clarification and edification and revealing of the very AGENT sent by God to do the job, the HOLY SPIRIT, then you end up with a toxic mashup of humanism, philosophy and an attitude of judgement which, by its very nature dictates that you must defend yourself from all others or your world will....literally...cease to be...

apart from the fact it is proven a farce as far as biblical content and truth actually reveal
 
Peter, if one has faith to believe they are a sinner, and can do nothing to save himself, and instead places his trust in the finished work of Christ as payment for their sins, there is nothing more that needs to be done. At that moment, that person is saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, and eternally secure.

We are saved by what He has done, not what we do. The Bible says without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. To say there are still sins yet to atone for, in any way, after salvation, is to require Jesus to come and shed more blood for those sins. Something He will not do.

This is correct and incorrect. It matters very much what we do. We must abide in Christ where the safety is. Those who depart from the ark through disobedience will drown in the flood.
 
There's nothing wrong with confessing to God when you've done wrong - but the point is, and has always been, that you are completely forgiven. Every future sin, just like your past sins, is under the blood.

Your sins are not a salvation issue. That matter was settled at the cross.

Yet, God will correct His wayward children, as any good parent would, but you will never be lost.


.....YES ... as long as I am not being liscentious ... yes - agreed, amen! :)
 
yeah thanks Grace

see, what is being presented keeps changing

you can't pin it down...like that jello you can't nail to the wall

I truly question salvation here...I really do...nothing makes any sense and there is just no end to it
 
One question is because without transformation you cannot be saved, ie the goal of faith is to become like Christ in all aspects.

Justification is also a work of God. He teaches, He leads, He enlightens. He receives the glory.

I will always be saved through faith in Jesus and what he has done, but how much of me?

None. Jesus did it all.

If salvation is up to us, we will fail every single time.