Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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LeeLoving

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selahsays said:
Yes, but the Elect were chosen way back when, right?
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The elect were chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, unless I'm mistaken. So I guess maybe it's like, God knew how things were going to turn out and these people were definitely going to be who he would draw to his Son and they were chosen in that sense. I'm sort of just speculating here though.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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LeeLoving said:
The elect were chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, unless I'm mistaken. So I guess maybe it's like, God knew how things were going to turn out and these people were definitely going to be who he would draw to his Son and they were chosen in that sense. I'm sort of just speculating here though.
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But where does it show they will all believe?
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Before the world is created:
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

After the world was created: how many of the chosen believed?
No Answer!

But we do know this:
1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
We only know they are Elect because they ended up believing. It could mean everyone was elected to be the Elect but the ones who become Elect are the ones who believe. There's no scripture that says everyone elected will 100% become elect.
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No, not everyone was elected. However, the Elect will come to Jesus; that’s why Jesus chose them! And this choice was because of our Father’s FOREKNOWLEDGE of each one of them.
 
L

LeeLoving

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FollowerofShiloh said:
But where does it show they will all believe?
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Romans 8:29-33
King James Version
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Before the world is created:
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

After the world was created: how many of the chosen believed?
No Answer!
Click to expand...
The chosen elect will always believe.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
No, not everyone was elected. However, the Elect will come to Jesus; that’s why Jesus chose them! And this choice was because of our Father’s FOREKNOWLEDGE of each one of them.
Click to expand...
Where does it say not everyone was elected at?
 
BillyBob

BillyBob

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Magenta said:
Now I must ask - since you have made me curious - what is it a person converts to if they do not have faith?
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Without faith, I would say that the person is not converted. They remain as they are – without hope! I just believe that the heart must be renewed, (the Spirit must work in you), before you can receive the word of God and put your trust in it. Only then can you know, that even though you are a sinner, Christ paid the price and therefore you are forgiven in Christ. Faith then becomes the result of conversion.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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LeeLoving said:
Romans 8:29-33
King James Version
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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Those are the ones who believe

LOOK at the verse before yours, 28
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

This is all about those who believe.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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selahsays said:
Yes, but the Elect were chosen way back when, right?
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That too is disputed. Possibly the greatest point of contention is the belief that God chooses ahead of time who will not be saved. This is not by foreknowledge, but by divine decree. It is like saying to someone, there is no chance of salvation for you, the good news that Jesus died for all is not for you, drawing near to God will do you no good, as He has already closed that door, and furthermore, God will punish you forever after for failing to make a choice that was never intended for you in the first place.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Where does it say not everyone was elected at?
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And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

- Romans 8:28-33
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Magenta said:
That too is disputed. Possibly the greatest point of contention is the belief that God chooses ahead of time who will not be saved. This is not by foreknowledge, but by divine decree. It is like saying to someone, there is no chance of salvation for you, the good news that Jesus died for all is not for you, drawing near to God will do you no good, as He has already closed that door, and furthermore, God will punish you forever after for failing to make a choice that was never intended for you in the first place.
Click to expand...
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

- Romans 8:28-33
 
L

LeeLoving

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selahsays said:
No, not everyone was elected. However, the Elect will come to Jesus; that’s why Jesus chose them! And this choice was because of our Father’s FOREKNOWLEDGE of each one of them.
Click to expand...
I think it might be because of God's foreknowledge about everything. Also if I'm not mistaken I think it says somewhere in the New Testament that people are saved by God because of their lowly position to humble the high or make futile the wise or something so that no charge can be brought against God, but I might be way off.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

- Romans 8:28-33
Click to expand...
LOOK at verse 28...And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God

So this is only about those who believe.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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LeeLoving said:
I think it might be because of God's foreknowledge about everything. Also if I'm not mistaken I think it says somewhere in the New Testament that people are saved because of their lowly position to humble the high or make futile the wise or something so that no charge can be brought against God, but I might be way off.
Click to expand...
Me? I believe our Father chose on an individual basis.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
LOOK at verse 28...And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God

So this is only about those who believe.
Click to expand...
Yes. “to those who love God” …and believe!

The very first time an elected person from way back when hears the Gospel for the first time, he will always come.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
Me? I believe our Father chose on an individual basis.
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First of all, those verses are about who the Father chose to save those who believe. It's all about Jesus. The Father before the world was created chose Jesus to save us.
 
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LeeLoving

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selahsays said:
Me? I believe our Father chose on an individual basis.
Click to expand...
Ok, well like I said, I think it says the elect were chosen by the foreknowledge of God, so I don't know if he just liked certain people more than other people.
 
CS1

CS1

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Rufus said:
You have chapter and verse to justify that belief?
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Yes, If you don't mind Romans chapter 1
says :

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, (hold the truth Hostage)
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, (made known to them) for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.


  1. because what may be known of God is manifest in them, (made known to them)
  2. for God has shown it to them.
  3. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen,
  4. being understood by the things that are made,
  5. even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
 
Magenta

Magenta

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selahsays said:
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

- Romans 8:28-33
Click to expand...
Nobody loved God before God loved them.

Is God's love unconditional?
 
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