Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
557
67
28
There was a thread asking the difference b/w praise and worship but I didn't want to disrupt the progress and flow of the newly generated discussion. But here, I'm not as concerned about that since the discussion is on its 251st page.'
I see praise as loving God, and
Worship as understanding that God love me.
Welcome Back! ;)
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,478
379
83
No, God seeks the lost. Jesus came to seek and save the lost. And what part of the Parable of the Prodigal don't you get? God wasn't lost, the son was lost. God wasn't found, the son was found.

Jesus did not die for every human being born. Why can't you believe Jesus as you have often boasted that you do? Sheep and Goats comprise the human race. And Jesus said he laid down his life for [only] his sheep. He shed his blood only for "many", not all.

And by the way, God cannot die! God is pure spirit! Only the God-Man can die. Only God-incarnate can die. If you cannot get a simple, fundamental truth like this right; then how are you going to get anything else in scripture right?
Your problem is that you somehow believe that Jesus dying for someone who rejects Him is going to lessen God's Sovereignty. It's the biggest load of bulk I have ever read and discovered by the Reformers.

We're talking about the Most High God who needs no one and requires nothing and is sustainable within Himself and Reformers think rejection is some how going to diminish Who God is.

It's such a stupid concept it takes dumb people to create it and literal puppets to believe in it.
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
557
67
28
Your problem is that you somehow believe that Jesus dying for someone who rejects Him is going to lessen God's Sovereignty. It's the biggest load of bulk I have ever read and discovered by the Reformers.

We're talking about the Most High God who needs no one and requires nothing and is sustainable within Himself and Reformers think rejection is some how going to diminish Who God is.

It's such a stupid concept it takes dumb people to create it and literal puppets to believe in it.
They don't accept rejection because they do realize they haven't been able to change wrong into right.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,950
1,697
113
Your problem is that you somehow believe that Jesus dying for someone who rejects Him is going to lessen God's Sovereignty. It's the biggest load of bulk I have ever read and discovered by the Reformers.

We're talking about the Most High God who needs no one and requires nothing and is sustainable within Himself and Reformers think rejection is some how going to diminish Who God is.

It's such a stupid concept it takes dumb people to create it and literal puppets to believe in it.
It hard to understand how anyone can look upon Jesus' cross and conclude that God hates anyone, yet that's what many believe. But Jesus never said, "I hate you," to not even one of the centurions, nor even a pharisee.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,015
26,143
113
All men know God exists. Here He is known from nature itself. But man also knows of the existence of God from his conscience, as God has placed eternity in his heart.
It's easy enough to demonstrate this from anthropology. Every people group has some form of religion in its culture.
You said elsewhere that you believe the Bible distinguishes between the mind, the heart, and the will as separate entities.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,478
379
83
They don't accept rejection because they do realize they haven't been able to change wrong into right.
It hard to understand how anyone can look upon Jesus' cross and conclude that God hates anyone, yet that's what many believe. But Jesus never said, "I hate you," to not even one of the centurions, nor even a pharisee.
Amen, and well said Brother and Sister!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,720
5,315
113
62
You said elsewhere that you believe the Bible distinguishes between the mind, the heart, and the will as separate entities.
I do believe it does. But the point here is simply that man knows God exists. But knowing about God is a far cry from knowing God, which is the essence of eternal life.
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
557
67
28
It hard to understand how anyone can look upon Jesus' cross and conclude that God hates anyone, yet that's what many believe. But Jesus never said, "I hate you," to not even one of the centurions, nor even a pharisee.
Do you believe God loves unrepentant sinners who are in hell.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,015
26,143
113
I do believe it does. But the point here is simply that man knows God exists. But knowing
about God is a far cry from knowing God, which is the essence of eternal life.
How does eternity being set in men's hearts condemn them? I agree men know God exists, though
I do not necessarily agree that failing to seek Him is what condemns them. It is the suppression of
truth of God's existence which does that. Knowing God exists, and God knowing none truly seek Him,
it is still incumbent upon man to seek truth, which is embodied in Jesus Christ, Who has promised to
reveal Himself to those who are earnestly seeking. It is then we come to know Him, and not just of Him...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
14,720
5,315
113
62
How does eternity being set in men's hearts condemn them? I agree men know God exists, though
I do not necessarily agree that failing to seek Him is what condemns them. It is the suppression of
truth of God's existence which does that. Knowing God exists, and God knowing none truly seek Him,
it is still incumbent upon man to seek truth, which is embodied in Jesus Christ, Who has promised to
reveal Himself to those who are earnestly seeking. It is then we come to know Him, and not just of Him...
When I mentioned that eternity has been placed in man's heart, I was merely showing another avenue that God has given to reveal His existence.
Man himself comes into the world condemned already. The wrath of God abides on him. So I never meant to imply that the fact that he doesn't seek God is what condemns him. What I believe condemns man is his sin.
As I read Romans 1, I see the suppression of truth as the reason God gives people over to their sin. It is as if God stops striving with them and no longer refrains their sinful tendencies. This allows individuals to suffer the full consequences of their sinfulness and sin's repercussions. It is here that I believe man fits himself for destruction.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,950
1,697
113
I don't understand if you believe Jesus died for unrepentant sinners who re in hell.
Perhaps the qualifier "unrepentant" might provide you the clue.

That is, if the only way to the Father is through Jesus, but one does not repent, which essentially involves turning back to God, but they try to go by any way but the only way... then what is there to wonder about if they end up lost?
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
557
67
28
Perhaps the qualifier "unrepentant" might provide you the clue.

That is, if the only way to the Father is through Jesus, but one does not repent, which essentially involves turning back to God, but they try to go by any way but the only way... then what is there to wonder about if they end up lost?
Do you believe Jesus died for the unrepentant sinners who are in Hell?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,950
1,697
113
Do you believe Jesus died for the unrepentant sinners who are in Hell?
You understand my answer but continue to ask, but it will not change just by repeating the question.
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
557
67
28
You understand my answer but continue to ask, but it will not change just by repeating the question.
Perhaps the qualifier "unrepentant" might provide you the clue.

That is, if the only way to the Father is through Jesus, but one does not repent, which essentially involves turning back to God, but they try to go by any way but the only way... then what is there to wonder about if they end up lost?
You implied that Jesus did not die for unrepentant sinners who are in hell.