Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Well, thanks for asking. I have kind of a different take on that verse and John 3:16 too than most do. I posted it some time
ago but it wasn't really recognized, however, for me, in viewing it in this way, it seems to reconcile everything pretty well.
Now don't laugh when I say it, (lol that means you Cameron143), but I believe there are two worlds in view: 1) this current world which is to be destroyed, and 2) the world to come which will be eternal, and is, as I understand it, to be comprised of the saved.
Were it not so, it would mean that either God can't destroy that which He hates nor save that which He loves.
The world in 1John 2:2 and John 3:16, is the world to come, not this current world. That is the world which Jesus saved by
the forgiveness of sin.
I've found generally that the Bible can use the same name for the earthly for the spiritual, so this is where the "no verse of
prophecy is of any private interpretation" and "comparing the spiritual with the spiritual" comes it to play to determine
which one is in view. Okay, you can laugh now, Cameron143.
Hope this helps
ago but it wasn't really recognized, however, for me, in viewing it in this way, it seems to reconcile everything pretty well.
Now don't laugh when I say it, (lol that means you Cameron143), but I believe there are two worlds in view: 1) this current world which is to be destroyed, and 2) the world to come which will be eternal, and is, as I understand it, to be comprised of the saved.
Were it not so, it would mean that either God can't destroy that which He hates nor save that which He loves.
The world in 1John 2:2 and John 3:16, is the world to come, not this current world. That is the world which Jesus saved by
the forgiveness of sin.
I've found generally that the Bible can use the same name for the earthly for the spiritual, so this is where the "no verse of
prophecy is of any private interpretation" and "comparing the spiritual with the spiritual" comes it to play to determine
which one is in view. Okay, you can laugh now, Cameron143.
Hope this helps
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Just to elaborate a little further, I think, off the top, the following verse tends to support that interpretation. It informs us that
Christ's kingdom is of a different world than this one.
[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Christ's kingdom is of a different world than this one.
[Jhn 18:36 KJV] 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
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Jesus on the Cross said, " It is finished ." John 19:28, 30. it is finished is referencing a debt that has been paid in Full.
"Finished " τελέω teléō = complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):—accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.
Was this debt paid in full for only the elect ? Absolutely not. The context of this payment is all past, present , and future debt has been paid in full. Therefore we are saved, was are being saved, and we will be saved.
Those in hell did not have to go there because The Supremacy of the word of the Cross was provide but
Heb 2:3 says How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
There are those who have the opinion " that it is a waste of the blood of Jesus to have been poured out for those who were not the elect. That is just false.
"Finished " τελέω teléō = complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt):—accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform.
Was this debt paid in full for only the elect ? Absolutely not. The context of this payment is all past, present , and future debt has been paid in full. Therefore we are saved, was are being saved, and we will be saved.
Those in hell did not have to go there because The Supremacy of the word of the Cross was provide but
Heb 2:3 says How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
There are those who have the opinion " that it is a waste of the blood of Jesus to have been poured out for those who were not the elect. That is just false.
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I gave a friendly emoji, but I did chuckle. But not because of the explanation. I've heard what you have shared and find it plausible. Truth be told, I'm not sure why these passages are worded as they are or all that is entailed in them. But I do know what a propitiation is and what it would mean if Gods wrath was fully satiated. Since it's evident that some are still under the wrath of God, there is more to the verses than what a simple rendering of the verses suggest.
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Well, God often intentionally doesn't make it easy for us. I think that is why He included specific rules of biblical interpretation in the Bible itself - that we should not just accept verses at face value but have to dig to find answers. The following verse - and I could be wrong about this- might be alluding to that, with the kings being those saved.
[Pro 25:2 KJV] 2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[Pro 25:2 KJV] 2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
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Is that how Adam was created? He chose something other than obeying God. He put his choice
above God's desire and direct command. And that is man's problem. We are born after Adam and
need to be born again through faith Christ. Thinking on this propensity of man to idolatry: after
a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He went
away sad because he had great wealth, the assumption being he did not wish to do as Jesus
said and give it away to follow Him. Jesus followed up by saying how it was easier for a camel
to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When
the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Hard not to notice they did not ask, can only poor people be saved? That was when Jesus
said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:26b
above God's desire and direct command. And that is man's problem. We are born after Adam and
need to be born again through faith Christ. Thinking on this propensity of man to idolatry: after
a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He went
away sad because he had great wealth, the assumption being he did not wish to do as Jesus
said and give it away to follow Him. Jesus followed up by saying how it was easier for a camel
to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When
the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Hard not to notice they did not ask, can only poor people be saved? That was when Jesus
said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Matthew 19:26b
Faith comes by hearing, so faith follows hearing. So, if we must believe then I'm supposing that hearing and believing are correlated as opposed to 'having ears but not hearing (that is, hearing but not listening) and "having eyes but not seeing (that is, looking but not seeing), which leads to faith (which is a faith that is the Holy Spirit saying, "Amen" with your spirit.
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