Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,788
29,174
113
If you still sin you have overcome nothing. To overcome the world means to overcome sin, meaning to stop sinning, for that is why the Messiah came, to put an end to sin, through his blood, which the blood of animals was never able to do.


Jesus overcame the world, sin, and death, and by faith in Him, those who believe overcome the world. I know you don't believe it, but that is what Scripture teaches, and what I believe, despite all your assertions to the contrary.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
We can, and we must, hence "be perfect" and "sin no more".
If you think you are so holy, go die on the cross for the sins of others, maybe people will believe you

And I want to see photographic evidence of two holes in your hands, and your pierced sides

And autopsy people to confirm you dead, and resurrect yourself to life
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
If you think you are so holy, go die on the cross for the sins of others, maybe people will believe you
I could not, because I have sinned in the past, which therefore disqualifies me from atoning for the sins of another. We have all sinned, which is why we are all called to "stop sinning". If we continue sinning then there cannot be forgiveness of sins, because you never stopped sinning. This is not difficult to understand.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,788
29,174
113
You are calling me to desist from teaching that we "must stop sinning" to then begin teaching that "we can continue sinning"? Your ignorance is baffling.
Your inability to understand what is said is amazing. You also blatantly lied here, for Dino said no such thing. Bearing false witness is a sin. Repent, hypocrite.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Your inability to understand what is said is amazing. You also blatantly lied here, for Dino said no such thing. Bearing false witness is a sin. Repent, hypocrite.
I asked him to clarify things, and asked him plainly if he agrees or disagrees with the following statement, "we must stop sinning from now and onwards", yet he refused to answer, because he knows he disagrees with the statement, as do you I perceive. If I am mistaken, then by all means, clarify for us if you agree or disagree with that statement. But I already suspect you do, and just as him, will refuse to answer.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,788
29,174
113
I asked him to clarify things, and asked him plainly if he agrees or disagrees with the following statement, "we must stop sinning from now and onwards", yet he refused to answer, because he knows he disagrees with the statement, as do you I perceive. If I am mistaken, then by all means, clarify for us if you agree or disagree with that statement. But I already suspect you do, and just as him, will refuse to answer.
Making excuses for lying is not repenting, hypocrite. Lying is a sin. You have not stopped sinning.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Making excuses for lying is not repenting, hypocrite.
I am not lying, I am telling you the truth, that we must all stop sinning. Yet you people call me "hypocrite", "liar", "troll", etc, because you have no intention to stop sinning.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,788
29,174
113
I am not lying, I am telling you the truth, that we must all stop sinning. Yet you people call me "hypocrite", "liar", "troll", etc, because you have no intention to stop sinning.
You lied to say Dino is calling you to teach that "we can continue sinning." Dino suggested no such thing to you to teach. You have shown you have no intention of quitting sinning by persisting in your lie and then attempting to cover it up by making excuses for it as if it were justifiable by your rationalizations. You simply show yourself to be a hypocrite.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
You lied to say Dino is calling you to teach that "we can continue sinning." Dino suggested no such thing to you to teach. You have shown you have no intention of quitting sinning by persisting in your lie and then attempting to cover it up by making excuses for it as if it were justifiable by your rationalizations. You simply show yourself to be a hypocrite.
Dino is free to clear his name by affirming that he agrees with the following statement, "we must stop sinning from now and onwards", because opposing this statement implies "we can continue sinning". Either one of these statements is true, both are not true.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
The logical fallacy of false dilemma

Please define continuous
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,788
29,174
113
Dino is free to clear his name by affirming that he agrees with the following statement, "we must stop sinning from now and onwards", because opposing this statement implies "we can continue sinning". Either one of these statements is true, both are not true.
You saying Dino is calling you to teach that "we can continue sinning" was a false accusation. All else you say here is simply trying to detract from the fact that you lied about this, regardless of what he believes on the matter. Bearing false witness is a sin. Obviously, you have not stopped sinning.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,189
113
There are a few things to consider here;

1)God is a non-changing God so He would never change His word.

2)The Bible teaches us that everything is about Jesus. So if He tells us not to follow Torah, He basically tells us not to follow Him anymore.

3)After His crucifixion, Jesus appeared to the two men and taught them from the Old Testament about himself.

4)Jesus said that the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses (that is to keep the Torah) so do what they tell you to do (keep Torah) but don’t do what they do (keep Talmud). The Talmud is basically man’s opinion and will lead to destruction.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Mere belief is useless if you do not stop committing sin, and you cannot know what sin is unless you read the Torah that reveals all that is sin. Am I speaking Chinese here? Why is this so difficult to understand?
Mere belief is just that. Mere belief. Even demons believe, but what good is it?

And you want to know what sin is? The torah will expose if you commit certain sins, But it has no power to tell you what sin is. Thats why the jewish nation as a whole could never find the truth Because like you. They looked to the wrong source.

As paul said, The torah was given to lead them to their messiah. Once you find the messiah, You find what sin is.. For he is the power of Love, His grace and forgiveness, is what empowers us to stop seeking self (sin) and start loving and serving others (righteousness)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Some good thoughts, but leave that "faith alone" to Martin Luther - Paul never said it and you won't find it written in the Scriptures.
Faith minus works equals faith alone.

However, Even though we are SAVED by faith alone.

The facts are (as paul and all the apostles taught) Faith is NEVER ALONE.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Righteousness IS obedience to the commands of God, hence, "and if we are careful to obey these commandments of God this will be our righteousness". Even Abraham, whose righteousness was based on belief, was commended for obeying the commandments and TORAH of God even before it was given through Moses, "because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Torah". Belief must yield obedience to the commandments of God, otherwise it is null. You err in your understanding of the truth, and think you do not need to obey what God has instructed, which is the very definition of lawlessness.
You can be careful to obay all you want

You still will fall short of the glory of God. And still deserve eternal judgment.

Even the law states perfection is the only means, anyone who does not meet this standard is under a curse.


James understood this when he made it clear you can keep the whole law. Yet if you fail in one smal point, your guilty of the whole law.

You will not find righteousness by following the law. All you will find is judgment, Because you can not keep it.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Mere belief is just that. Mere belief. Even demons believe, but what good is it?

And you want to know what sin is? The torah will expose if you commit certain sins, But it has no power to tell you what sin is. Thats why the jewish nation as a whole could never find the truth Because like you. They looked to the wrong source.

As paul said, The torah was given to lead them to their messiah. Once you find the messiah, You find what sin is.. For he is the power of Love, His grace and forgiveness, is what empowers us to stop seeking self (sin) and start loving and serving others (righteousness)
This is false. The Torah is the knowledge of sin, hence,

What then shall we say? That the Torah is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the Torah, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the Torah had not said, “You shall not covet.”
Romans 7:7
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Stopping sin is not claiming to be without sin, because all have sinned in the past, which is why it is necessary to stop sinning going forward.
You can’t stop sin dude. Thats the problem.

Thats why Jesus said it is only through love we can obey the law (we do not love 24/7 so we can not obey the law 24/7)

And why John made it clear. If we say we have no sin we are deceived, and have no truth in us. Because do not comprehend yet what sin is.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
You can be careful to obay all you want

You still will fall short of the glory of God. And still deserve eternal judgment.

Even the law states perfection is the only means, anyone who does not meet this standard is under a curse.

James understood this when he made it clear you can keep the whole law. Yet if you fail in one smal point, your guilty of the whole law.

You will not find righteousness by following the law. All you will find is judgment, Because you can not keep it.
Which is why belief is also necessary, because mere perfect obedience to the Torah is not sufficient to attain perfection, it must also come with belief, belief in Yeshuah, which then, through obedience of the commands of the Torah that define sin, and through belief in Yeshuah, then a man receives the anointing of God, which perfects him and frees him from sin, and thus fulfills, "he who is born of God cannot sin" and "you have been set free from sin". Yet just as mere obedience to the Torah without belief in Yeshuah does not yield perfection, which is the case of many Jews, so in likewise manner belief in Yeshuah without obedience to the Torah does not yield perfection, which is the case of many "Christians", and in both cases, a man falls short of what is required to inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
You can’t stop sin dude. Thats the problem.

Thats why Jesus said it is only through love we can obey the law (we do not love 24/7 so we can not obey the law 24/7)

And why John made it clear. If we say we have no sin we are deceived, and have no truth in us. Because do not comprehend yet what sin is.
We can, otherwise the scripture would not say "you have been set free from sin" and "he who is born of God cannot sin".