Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[SimpleGardner]

You do not see, that it is the law of the Messiah that is written on the Christians heart and not the law written on tablets of stone.

Greetings PH,

"Written on our hearts" is a term used to describe the influences of the Infilling of The Holy Spirit. Essentially The Holy Spirit is The Law. Compare what happened 50 days post Passover and 50 days Post Yahshua's crucifixion. There are many other references. The Holy Spirit is the influence of the Divine upon our hearts. Any man filled with The Holy Spirit finds immediate witness to what is Holy/Legal/right and what is illegal/unholy/wicked. The laws are "written upon a mans heart" by default of this influence, but this man must introduce himself to those Requirements of God by reading them! This reading is part of the sanctification process;


2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Do you believe sanctification is immediate or is it a process? I believe it is a process. If a man applies himself diligently to this walk he will Finish the race and;

Heb 12:11 KJV Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Chastening, Rebuke, Instruction,repentance, humbling all terms used to describe the growth of the new man's experience.

2Co 3:18 NIV And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

 

[NayborBear]

IT SEEMS ODD AND NOT AT ALL CHRISTLIKE. DO YOU KNOW WHICH ONES THEY ARE? I THINK I MAY GO HUNT THEM DOWN THROUGH OUT THE THREAD. I THINK IF WE PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER WE WILL FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING KEPT IN THE DARK.

Nah! I don't know which questions, nor how many.
Just know, there seems to be a reoccurring pattern that seems to suggest something that could be referred to as deliberate indiscretionary unaccountability (willingly ignorant). I've heard it called "fruit inspectors" elsewhere.
Which, to me anyways, is not as important as one's "depth of root structure/s." Which requires, "spiritual effort/s, and sacrificing/s", which is referred to in yet another "coined phrase", as a "works for salvation" doctrine. But, it isn't.
In the parable of the different "types" of ground upon which the "seed" (word of God) falls?
The "flesh eyes" see only the "good" ground.
Spiritual eyes, see? ALL the ground is GOOD! BECAUSE? "Where does the seed fall?" "On ALL the ground!" BUT? "YOU!" Have to MAKE it GOOD!
Flesh eyes, growing in the "good ground" see the rest of the ground where the "seed" is sown?" As everyone else, BUT themselves! Which manifests itself in "self righteous/wise in their own conceits", doctrine/s, as well as "attitude/s & studyings" towards "vain and profane babblings", which just leads into more ungodliness. In striving to KEEP what "little" they have! So, Christendom, in general, while thinking they are "growing?" Are, actually LOSING ground! TO? As in the parable, "the way!" (to which the devil comes in and quickly removes it from one's attention span).

Gotta give Grandpa credit. Christ? Is our "sabbath/rest!"
Unfortunately? Traditions of man, have turned the "New Agreement/s" into a permanent "Vacation Resort!"
NO DIFFERENT, from what traditions of man did to the "Old Agreement/s."

Paul even gave warnings to the gentiles concerning BOASTING against "the branches."

Which, I suppose "coined the phrase" "Hebrew Roots Movement"

 

[posthuman]

For the sake of argument "I had some homicidal thoughts, Is this not a good time for some certain restrictions on my flesh man?

say i covet something. i can, by my willpower, forcibly modify my behaviour so i do not steal it.
but in my heart, i steal it, and covet it. modifying my behaviour has no value to stopping what's in the heart.

say i lust after someone. i can, by the effort of my will, impose modification of my behaviour upon myself so that i do not follow through with desire. but in my heart, i'm still an adulterer already. keeping my flesh from carrying out its lusts doesn't have any value to remove that lust that was already present.

so what i'm asking is, does it make sense that modified outward behaviour is the fulfillment of the law in His righteous ones? is that the sum total of it?
in the context of the sabbaths. are they just about modifying outward behaviour on certain days or is there an actual deep meaning to them that is spiritual, not merely concerned with fleshly inaction?
As the Lord describes them through Ezekiel: a sign, signifying that God is He who sanctifies. take what Christ said about the one who hates his brother, is a murderer in his heart, and apply it here -- what do i get?

this is related to - which maybe needs its own thread, IMO - what does it mean for God's law to be written in a heart, instead of engraved on stones and transcribed on scrolls?
what are we talking about when we quote Jeremiah 31 there? put in our mind and written on our hearts - what? the Torah is now memorized so you don't have to read it? is that all? is that what put in our minds' means? what does written on our hearts actually mean? we willingly embrace it instead of .. instead of what, being skeptical about whether to believe that's what it actually says?
why do people quote the law at each other if it's already memorized and embraced/accepted in the heart of the one it's being 'quoted at' ? is that contradictory?
but it's more than 'memorized' or 'accepted' ain't it? because you know, there is no more blood sacrifice. and the reason isn't, because you've memorized the laws concerning sacrifices. and you know, accepting physical circumcision can mean spitting on Christ. but physical circumcision is clearly written in the law. and you'll say, sacrifices are done away with by the Lamb of God given -- and physical circumcision is supplanted by the circumcision of the heart, done without hands. so this isn't 'circumcision and sacrifices are memorized and accepted' -- this is, those physical things in the law of Moses are transformed and fulfilled in a new way spiritually when they are found in the law of Christ. are they not?

what does this mean about clothes of mixed fabric?
what does this mean about trimming your beard?
what does this mean about sabbaths?
what does this mean about free-will & thanks offerings? shewbread?
what are the spiritual realities of those shadows?

 

[posthuman]

The laws are "written upon a mans heart" by default of this influence, but this man must introduce himself to those Requirements of God by reading them!

how is that any different than a child born under the Sinai covenant who grows up reading Torah, line after line, precept after precept, learning it as he grows, being told 'know the Lord!' ?

it's put in your mind but you still have to put it in your mind?

eventually as you mature you'll start stoning sabbath breakers and slaughtering bulls, and the mark of the immature is that they are still neglecting commandments and removing jots and tittles because they haven't grown up enough to realize they need to wear blue tassels and forgive all debts every 50th year?

this doesn't explain why physical circumcision can become blasphemy.

 

[Yahshua]

I point you to posthuman's answer in #4710. I agree 100%, written much better than this country boy from the south ( usa ) could say.

Ok.

the same way everyone serves Christ. with faith, because it is impossible to please Him without it. to believe that HE IS, and that He rewards those who seek Him.
and,

As your reference from Colossians 1:9-12 alludes to, faith without works is dead. So what are good works? How does one distinguish good works from bad works?

with knowledge of His will, through the wisdom and understanding which the Spirit gives
bearing fruit in every good work
growing in knowledge of Him
strengthened in His mighty power, which is made perfect in our weakness
in endurance, and in patience
in joy and with thankfulness in every situation

Agreed. How does one learn his will vs. their own will or distinguish His will from one that sounds pretty good but is not actually his will?

believing Him who has qualified you.
obeying His "new commandment" -- loving as He who first loved you - He who loved you and gave Himself for you while you were His enemy, hating Him, dead in rebellion and trespass.

Are we to stop the rebellion and trespass now that we're no longer his enemy? Or are we allowed to continue in it?

the law of our King is to love one another.
the law of Christ is to bear one another's burdens.
to know and trust Him, who is Faithful and True, and will do it.

How do we learn how to love one another? How do we get to know him?

 

[posthuman]

line after line, precept after precept

"so that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken" ​

you might be shocked to know how many sermons i've listened to on Isaiah 28:13, and astonished at how few of them ever even mention the explanation given in the last half of the verse. it's practically zero. the scripture literally, explicitly tells us why it was 'here a little there a little' to them, but virtually every one who thinks to teach this passage makes up their own reason instead.

what
is
up
with
that??
​

Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men
(Isaiah 28:14)​

 

[posthuman]

Are we to stop the rebellion and trespass now that we're no longer his enemy? Or are we allowed to continue in it?

who in the world says that other than my false accuser?

 

[Yahshua]

say i lust after someone. i can, by the effort of my will, impose modification of my behaviour upon myself so that i do not follow through with desire. but in my heart, i'm still an adulterer already. keeping my flesh from carrying out its lusts doesn't have any value to remove that lust that was already present.

so what i'm asking is, does it make sense that modified outward behaviour is the fulfillment of the law in His righteous ones? is that the sum total of it?

That's your part.

Christ's job is the heart. Your job is not to sin.

Your job is to stop the conception of sin and trust Christ to do his job.

James 1:14-15
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Yahshua]

who in the world says that other than my false accuser?

As you've said several times for your posts, which I have repeated for my later posts, these are questions. Questions. Questions.

An accusation isn't a question and a question isn't an accusation.

If you're accused it's only your heart doing it.

 

[NayborBear]

not one jot or tittle need be removed for the law to have no more authority over a dead man.
love as He loved; He laid down His life, to take it up again: no one takes it from Him.

whoever loves others has fulfilled the law​

(Romans 13:8)​

​

"leave no other debt"

When the "recipient" of "love" doesn't "see", or take it as love, but rather, an attack? Due to the entanglement of a/the "tare/s" that the recipient displays?
Is that still "love?"
Or, fulfilling something "the law" doesn't cover?
Or, is it something else?

 

[DeighAnn]

You do not see, that it is the law of the Messiah that is written on the Christians heart and not the law written on tablets of stone.

So now all you have to do is go back and see the 50 plus times I have said IN LETTERS TWICE THIS SIZE THAT, THAT LAW IS NO LONGER. THAT WAS THE OLD COVENANT. THAT LAW EXPIRED WITH JOHN THE BAPTIST. SO NO THAT IS NOT THE LAW WRITTEN ON MY HEART. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. IT CAN'T BE WRITTEN. NO ONE CAN BE "UNDER IT" IT IS VAPOR AS FAR AS BINDING US TO BONDAGE AND DEATH TODAY. IT CAN'T BE DONE. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SUGGEST IT. MY HEART WASN'T AVAILABLE TO BE WRITTENJ ON 2000 YEARS AGO, WAS IT? SEE, THIS IS THAT "ASSUME" THING IN FULL SWING.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL TO ME? YOU ADMITTING THAT THERE IS LAW WRITTEN INSIDE YOU. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THAT? I'LL BET IT IS IN USE JUST LIKE MINE, ONLY DIFFERENCE IS "I LOVE IT" I AM GOING TO PRINT OUT THIS POST AND TACK IT ON MY WALL. FIRST POST EVER OF YOU ADMITTING THERE IS LAW WRITTEN WITHIN AND SO YOU ARE LIVING WITH IT JUST LIKE ME.

SO IT MUST BE TIME FOR YOU TO ACCUSE ME OF "WORKING FOR SALVATION" THOUGH YOU KNOW I RECEIVED IT AS A GIFT FROM GOD YEARS BEFORE I HAD EVER KNOWN THAT ANYONE EVER DID.

IF IT ISN'T TIME FOR THAT LIE, THEN IT MUST BE TIME FOR YOU TO TELL ME I NEED TO TAKE CHRIST INTO MY HEART, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I LEAD A SPIRIT LEAD LIFE, AND MY SPIRIT WORKS GODS LAW WRITTEN IN MY HEART AND MIND. PERFECTING MY WALK.

IT ALSO MAY BE TIME TO TELL ME NOT TO USE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. IT MAY BE TIME TO TELL ME, WHATEVER I MISSED THAT YOU WILL GET WRONG NEXT. I HAD SO FORGIVEN AND MOVED ON. WHAT MAKES A PERSON PUSH LIKE THAT? ONCE AGAIN, NOT FEELING ANY OF THAT GOOD FRUIT FROM YOU.

 

[DeighAnn]

Its not a vile accusation.

It is what you are saying.

Either have faith in Christ. Or work at the law.

If you work at the law then you by default ARE NOT trusting in Christ. You are trusting in YOU.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

NO, IT IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. FIND ME ONE POST THAT SAYS IT THAT YOU DIDN'T WRITE YOURSELF. YOU WILL FIND IT IS ALWAYS YOUR POSTS, NEVER MINE. IT IS YOUR BELIEF, NOT MINE. IT IS HOW YOU SEE THE WORLD, NOT ME. JUST BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IT DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. YOU JUST DON'T GET THAT. SAY IT A BILLION TIMES AND YOU WILL BE INCORRECT A BILLION TIMES.

 

[posthuman]

As you've said several times for your posts, which I have repeated for my later posts, these are questions. Questions. Questions.

An accusation isn't a question and a question isn't an accusation.

If you're accused it's only your heart doing it.

i'm not sure you read enough.

Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Messiah! ​

For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down!​

They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony!​

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!​

(Revelation 12:10-11) ​

 

[posthuman]

i'm not sure you read enough.

Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Messiah! ​

For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down!​

They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony!​

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!​

(Revelation 12:10-11) ​

↑

((declarative statements))
​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Greetings PH,

"Written on our hearts" is a term used to describe the influences of the Infilling of The Holy Spirit. Essentially The Holy Spirit is The Law. Compare what happened 50 days post Passover and 50 days Post Yahshua's crucifixion. There are many other references. The Holy Spirit is the influence of the Divine upon our hearts. Any man filled with The Holy Spirit finds immediate witness to what is Holy/Legal/right and what is illegal/unholy/wicked. The laws are "written upon a mans heart" by default of this influence, but this man must introduce himself to those Requirements of God by reading them! This reading is part of the sanctification process;


2Ti 3:16-17 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Do you believe sanctification is immediate or is it a process? I believe it is a process. If a man applies himself diligently to this walk he will Finish the race and;

Heb 12:11 KJV Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Chastening, Rebuke, Instruction,repentance, humbling all terms used to describe the growth of the new man's experience.

2Co 3:18 NIV And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

So how are transformed.

And what if we do not transform enough?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Workers/Judaizers hate it when they can't get everyone to join in their work.

The Pharisees crucified Christ for it.


It is better to definitively know which side you are on. Instead of being on the side of the Pharisees and then pretending to be on the side of Christ as well.

I wonder how many read these posts with TRUE understanding and actually know what it is to have faith in Christ?

One of the great determiners of this question is how they feel about their eternity.

Is their eternity secure sealed by the spirit which can never be lost, rooted in christ?

Or insecure and not guaranteed, rooted in self?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

say i covet something. i can, by my willpower, forcibly modify my behaviour so i do not steal it.
but in my heart, i steal it, and covet it. modifying my behaviour has no value to stopping what's in the heart.

say i lust after someone. i can, by the effort of my will, impose modification of my behaviour upon myself so that i do not follow through with desire. but in my heart, i'm still an adulterer already. keeping my flesh from carrying out its lusts doesn't have any value to remove that lust that was already present.

so what i'm asking is, does it make sense that modified outward behaviour is the fulfillment of the law in His righteous ones? is that the sum total of it?
in the context of the sabbaths. are they just about modifying outward behaviour on certain days or is there an actual deep meaning to them that is spiritual, not merely concerned with fleshly inaction?
As the Lord describes them through Ezekiel: a sign, signifying that God is He who sanctifies. take what Christ said about the one who hates his brother, is a murderer in his heart, and apply it here -- what do i get?

this is related to - which maybe needs its own thread, IMO - what does it mean for God's law to be written in a heart, instead of engraved on stones and transcribed on scrolls?
what are we talking about when we quote Jeremiah 31 there? put in our mind and written on our hearts - what? the Torah is now memorized so you don't have to read it? is that all? is that what put in our minds' means? what does written on our hearts actually mean? we willingly embrace it instead of .. instead of what, being skeptical about whether to believe that's what it actually says?
why do people quote the law at each other if it's already memorized and embraced/accepted in the heart of the one it's being 'quoted at' ? is that contradictory?
but it's more than 'memorized' or 'accepted' ain't it? because you know, there is no more blood sacrifice. and the reason isn't, because you've memorized the laws concerning sacrifices. and you know, accepting physical circumcision can mean spitting on Christ. but physical circumcision is clearly written in the law. and you'll say, sacrifices are done away with by the Lamb of God given -- and physical circumcision is supplanted by the circumcision of the heart, done without hands. so this isn't 'circumcision and sacrifices are memorized and accepted' -- this is, those physical things in the law of Moses are transformed and fulfilled in a new way spiritually when they are found in the law of Christ. are they not?

what does this mean about clothes of mixed fabric?
what does this mean about trimming your beard?
what does this mean about sabbaths?
what does this mean about free-will & thanks offerings? shewbread?
what are the spiritual realities of those shadows?

Amen

One can by the letter be blameless (see paul) yet still be one of the worse of all sinners (again see paul, who called himself chief of all sinners)

 

[Yahshua]

i'm not sure you read enough.

Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Messiah! ​

For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down!​

They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony!​

They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death!​

(Revelation 12:10-11) ​

Like I said, if you're accused here - when no accusation has been made - it's only your heart that's doing it to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok.



As your reference from Colossians 1:9-12 alludes to, faith without works is dead. So what are good works? How does one distinguish good works from bad works?



Agreed. How does one learn his will vs. their own will or distinguish His will from one that sounds pretty good but is not actually his will?




Are we to stop the rebellion and trespass now that we're no longer his enemy? Or are we allowed to continue in it?




How do we learn how to love one another? How do we get to know him?

You have been told numerous times, Yet still do not get it..

Do you think it will help you understand if they tell you the same things 100 more times? 1000? Will you still ask the same questions as if we have never answered?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

who in the world says that other than my false accuser?

They can’t get passed it..