Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

[cv5]

i believe it to have been a trinitarian act, much like creation and salvation.

Bravo. Such a conclusion is obvious. Or should be.

 

[notmyown]

Does the context say the "temple" was Jesus soul? or His body? Who does scripture say took Jesus' soul/life from hades and put it back into His body? Who does scripture say raised up Jesus' body/temple from the stone slab it was lying on?

here you go--

the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”

Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”

“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”

But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body. After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (Jn 2:18-22)

the Bible also says God raised Him from the dead (twice that i can think of in Acts), and in Gal 1 we read it was God the Father who did so. 2 Peter 3 indicates the Spirit raised Him.

 

[notmyown]

Bravo

or in my case, brava

 

[PaulThomson]

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

Which of course proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is God Himself.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread denying that Jesus is God. Why are you arguing for it as though some are

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
Jesus was God. But you are trying to dictate to God as to how he must exercise his deity to be a kind of God you will recognise as God. You are dictating that a God worthy of your worship must never give up His use of His own omnipotence and rely on someone else's power.

I'm telling you what the documented facts about what God did and said, you can make whatever assumption you like but your feelings and opinions have no baring on reality.

You are telling us what you believe about what God said and did. You can make whatever assumption you like, but your feelings and opinions have no baring on reality. You don't get to dictate to God how He must behave.

 

[cv5]

here you go--

the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”

Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”

“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”

But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body. After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. (Jn 2:18-22)

the Bible also says God raised Him from the dead (twice that i can think of in Acts), and in Gal 1 we read it was God the Father who did so. 2 Peter 3 indicates the Spirit raised Him.

Brava again.....

the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”

Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”

 

[notmyown]

Brava again.....

the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”

Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”

our Lord could easily have said something like, my father will raise it up again, yet He did not. after His resurrection, His disciples "believed the word which Jesus had said". i believe it, too.

 

[PaulThomson]

our Lord could easily have said something like, my father will raise it up again, yet He did not. after His resurrection, His disciples "believed the word which Jesus had said". i believe it, too.

Jesus definitely stood His own living body up after the Father and Holy Spirit raised His soul up out from among the dead ones and rep;aced it into His body. That is what scripture says. Definitely.

 

[notmyown]

Jesus definitely stood His own body up after the Father and Holy Spirit raised His soul up out from among the dead ones and repalced it into His body. That is what scripture says. Definitely.

i don't remember reading anything about raising His soul from among the dead ones? can you point me to it?

 

[cv5]

i don't remember reading anything about raising His soul from among the dead ones? can you point me to it?

Anyone who says that Jesus did not resurrect Himself..........is a heretic.

 

[Cameron143]

i believe it to have been a trinitarian act, much like creation and salvation.

however, i'm not going to try to convince you of that.

I believe it was trinitarian as well. Just not the way you seem to.

 

[Mem]

As a man Jesus inherited custodianship of the earth. Unlike others before Him, he did not hand this dominion over to the devil by obeying the devil and enslaving Himself to the devil. Those in Him He restores to lordship over the planet and over all devils on the planet. The only weapon they can use against those in Christ is deceit, to convince us to obey them rather than God.

Si as a man Jesus did not have to earn the planet, but he had to keep ownership of it and not surrender ownership of it. His reward for living a perfect life is brothers and sisters: a family of God-lovers to share His inheritance with. He doesn't leave it to us. He shares it with us. His inheritance as the Son of God is all of creation: the heavens and the earth. It includes the glory He had with the Father that He had given up to dwell among men for 33 years. We don't get to have that individually in its fulness.

Pertaining to his earthly dominion, I might summarize it that Jesus won a lawsuit against the devil and took him for everything that the devil had, with an added irony that the devil obtained all he'd possessed by deceptively means in the first place.

 

[Charlie_2024]

PaulThomson said:
Jesus was God. But you are trying to dictate to God as to how he must exercise his deity to be a kind of God you will recognise as God. You are dictating that a God worthy of your worship must never give up His use of His own omnipotence and rely on someone else's power.



You are telling us what you believe about what God said and did. You can make whatever assumption you like, but your feelings and opinions have no baring on reality. You don't get to dictate to God how He must behave.

The only difference between my view and yours is, my view is supported by Gods Word. While your view is only supported by your private opinion.

 

[sawdust]

But you have misapplied John 5:19 Jesus was speaking in His capacity as a man to them.

Yes, because He had to live as a man only in order to qualify for the Cross. He had to live a perfectly righteous HUMAN life or none of us could be saved. He couldn't cheat and act as God in some situations and not others. He had to do the Fathers will at all times as the perfect man.

I can't understand why you have a problem with that.

If you don't know why it is a problem that Jesus should be "switching" between living as a man and living as God then you don't really understand why the Devil tried to tempt Him with the specific temptations he used. You are are advocating that Christ did the very thing the Devil wanted Him to do yet failed to achieve.

As an aside, I'm curious ... (you don't have to answer if it's personal) what is the significance of 2024 in your avatar?

 

[PaulThomson]

QUOTE="cv5, post: 5291017, member: 277646"]Brava again.....

the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”

Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”[/QUOTE]

I stand/aise my temple/body up every morning. I'm not using my own omnipotence to do that.
[

 

[PaulThomson]

i don't remember reading anything about raising His soul from among the dead ones? can you point me to it?

Acts 2:27 For you will not abandon my SOUL to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption...
v. 21 David foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades nor did His flrsh see corruption
32 This Jesus God raised up."

1 Pet 1:2 who through him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead (out of dead ones Greek ek nekrOn) and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. Out from [the] dead [ones] , ek [tOn] nekrOn, is often used about Christ.

 

[PaulThomson]

Bravo. Such a conclusion is obvious. Or should be.

If one overlays extra theological assumption over the actual words used in the text, it seems obvious.

 

[obertarti]

If he had had advantage he could not have been sacrifice to God for people

ew American Standard Bible
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people

 

[PaulThomson]

If he had had advantage he could not have been sacrifice to God for people

ew American Standard Bible
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people

As I have mentioned before, one major factor in Jesus having no advantage over us is that Jesus' successfully living a sinless life after many temptations proves that our sin was not necessary. There was no design flaw in Adam and his descendants that made sin inevitable

 

[ewq1938]

If he had had advantage he could not have been sacrifice to God for people

That isn't true. His advantages were being the only begotten Son of God, and being God the Son and knowing these things not to mention having many prophecies devoted to him and what he would do and knowing about those as well.