Did Paul explain scripture or add to scripture?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
2,209
113
#61
"What has happened to those crazy Christians! They actually think that if they could speak to another person about Scriptures, that person would be blown away!"

"Oh . . .they're just out of control! The madness . . . the insanity of them!"

Well, you're definitely not a prophet, because you completely misjudged my Heart.

Thanks for associating "silly" with me. Yet, I can't speak highly of God's Holy Work.

Can't make this stuff up!

You seem very upset.

It is so easy to get caught up in these discussions. Gods word is so precious.

The truths in it are so important.


But I have seen from you behavior not of God, not of the Holy spirit. I am not claiming you don't know God but the terms and verses you're throwing around are making you seem much more like an accuser.

We are limited to text here. There can easily be misunderstandings. You are currently seeming to be running on your own emotions here.

Your first response to me was not related at all to what I said and I have seen how quickly you got worked up in other posts.


I would much rather have a fruitful discussion than have some finger pointing blaming match where you are pretending I don't value Gods word because you didn't like what I perceived.


No strawmen, don't impute a belief or position to me.
Don't act like you're the only one who loves God deeply and appreciate Him.


Many on this forum are genuine, even if they disagree with you, or if they disagree with me.

This journey with God we are all blessed to be on is a walk. Some people are at different points.

That means we (including you) have reasons for why we believe what we believe.


That means if someone doesn't agree with something as extreme as the topic of this thread, you don't go around acting like the years they spent with God meant less than whatever time you believe you spent.


Be civil or please just don't respond.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#62
You seem very upset.

It is so easy to get caught up in these discussions. Gods word is so precious.

The truths in it are so important.


But I have seen from you behavior not of God, not of the Holy spirit. I am not claiming you don't know God but the terms and verses you're throwing around are making you seem much more like an accuser.

We are limited to text here. There can easily be misunderstandings. You are currently seeming to be running on your own emotions here.

Your first response to me was not related at all to what I said and I have seen how quickly you got worked up in other posts.


I would much rather have a fruitful discussion than have some finger pointing blaming match where you are pretending I don't value Gods word because you didn't like what I perceived.


No strawmen, don't impute a belief or position to me.
Don't act like you're the only one who loves God deeply and appreciate Him.


Many on this forum are genuine, even if they disagree with you, or if they disagree with me.

This journey with God we are all blessed to be on is a walk. Some people are at different points.

That means we (including you) have reasons for why we believe what we believe.


That means if someone doesn't agree with something as extreme as the topic of this thread, you don't go around acting like the years they spent with God meant less than whatever time you believe you spent.


Be civil or please just don't respond.
It amazes me, that from our communications, you have come to these remarkable conclusions. I have no idea who you're referring to, but you're not describing me. Furthermore, since you have found an amazing way of making me look horrible as if you knew my Heart . . . shows me that we will not be having fruitful conversations in the future, for you are unable to read my Heart correctly. And that's between you and God . . . it bothers me none that we do not share the same Heart, and that you view me in a most disparaging way.

Me upset? lol . . . sure.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#63
We know God chose Paul as an apostle and breathed His words into Paul. We can believe all Paul wrote as coming from the Lord Himself. But we need to decide if that word was explaining scripture or adding to scripture.

Christ told us that what He did was not adding or taking away from scripture, but it was fulfilling scripture. If Paul taught something new, then Paul would be greater than Christ.

The Bereans tested Paul by whether he agreed with scripture or not. Acts 17:11 “Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”

Much of Paul’s writings were repeats of what the old testament said, he felt it explained what he said.

Did Paul add something new that God was adding to scripture?
Paul not add anything, can you explain more about if Paul add any?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#64
Crossnote, above, gave me the "Old" icon.

Yep. I am, and I was diagnosed with cancer several weeks ago. And if I'm lucky, I'll head "Home" much earlier than ever expected. Thanks!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#65
Crossnote, above, gave me the "Old" icon.

Yep. I am, and I was diagnosed with cancer several weeks ago. And if I'm lucky, I'll head "Home" much earlier than ever expected. Thanks!
In case you want to serve more, I read that fasting cure cancer.

But it must be done for long term basis.

Our body smarter than a doctor, first day of fasting take blood glucose, than fat, than tumor

https://www.healthline.com/health/fasting-and-cancer
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
#66
Crossnote, above, gave me the "Old" icon.

Yep. I am, and I was diagnosed with cancer several weeks ago. And if I'm lucky, I'll head "Home" much earlier than ever expected. Thanks!

A family member of mine had terminal cancer but sought out special treatment and survived. Private message me if you want to know the details.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#67

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#69
We know God chose Paul as an apostle and breathed His words into Paul. We can believe all Paul wrote as coming from the Lord Himself. But we need to decide if that word was explaining scripture or adding to scripture.

Christ told us that what He did was not adding or taking away from scripture, but it was fulfilling scripture. If Paul taught something new, then Paul would be greater than Christ.

The Bereans tested Paul by whether he agreed with scripture or not. Acts 17:11 “Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”

Much of Paul’s writings were repeats of what the old testament said, he felt it explained what he said.

Did Paul add something new that God was adding to scripture?
Paul was a witness and revelator of the gospel the source of Paul’s writings and explainations come dorectly from what Jesus said . The apostles after Jesus went to heaven were carrying out this foretelling

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so for instance Jesus said this

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so Paul later is explaining how that freedom ties to his doctrine like he said and how it offers freedom from sins dominion over us like slaves or servants

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whole chapter even until chapter 8 is Paul revealing what Jesus was talking about or another example is Jesus said this it seems hard to grasp

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so then Paul’s doctrine is full of the terminology “ crudity the flesh “ die and be raised up again “ he’s a revelatory of the gospel like the other apostles because they received the Holy Ghost ot was Christ explaining the gospel further through them
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#70
Wow, Jackson! That's kind of the opposite way that I want to go . . . but I do appreciate it!
Phil1
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

See you there, brother, as son as I am ready, I want God to call me too.

One day a young man ask me question,
Jackson, teach me to be millionair.

I say to him, I am nothing how can I teach you

He keep pushed me to, than I ask if he believe in Jesus. He did.

I said to him, then you are billionaires

Because you are inherit the kingdom of God that cost trilinions.

You have more than bill gate.

You on your way to whitehouse brother, I am not ready yet, but I am looking at that way.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#71
Phil1
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

See you there, brother, as son as I am ready, I want God to call me too.

One day a young man ask me question,
Jackson, teach me to be millionair.

I say to him, I am nothing how can I teach you

He keep pushed me to, than I ask if he believe in Jesus. He did.

I said to him, then you are billionaires

Because you are inherit the kingdom of God that cost trilinions.

You have more than bill gate.

You on your way to Whitehouse brother, I am not ready yet, but I am looking at that way.
What a great post, Jackson! You definitely have the Spirit of Christ within you! I am not afraid of Cancer, nor am I upset with death. How much less fear do I have of these people who think they know my "upset" Heart?

I am not upset by cancer . . . and yet these people think that I am upset/angry etc. lol . . . couldn't be further from the Truth!

Thank you, Jackson!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#72
Crossnote, above, gave me the "Old" icon.

Yep. I am, and I was diagnosed with cancer several weeks ago. And if I'm lucky, I'll head "Home" much earlier than ever expected. Thanks!
I wasn't referring to your cancer with the 'old icon' (sorry to hear about your cancer), but rather it refers to the continual playing the victim card as you did in post #62.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#73
Nah. The Jews had no logical, reasonable, rational reason to hate Christ. They hated Jesus because "they do not know what they are doing." Jesus, Stephen, and Paul (the three) all spoke those words about those who are not saved. But more, Paul tells us what the root problem was (thanks to the NLT for helping us to understand more easily):

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

That's why they hated Christ . . . this is at the Core of God's Eternal Plan. It is amazing to be able to see this plan all throughout Scripture . . . and it is.
The Lord was taking away their power and authority. The Lord was not hiding this fact.

Go against Judaism right now with the Power and Authority of God and see how they feel about you as well...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#74
That is not what Christ said about Himself, Christ said he changed nothing, Christ fulfilled everything.

I do agree that the new covenant that came with Christ changed the law from a law in stone to a law in the heart, adding love to the law.
Christ didn't say He changed nothing. Christ knew He was changing everything.

What happened to the Levitical priesthood and sacrificing animals?

If the Lord changed nothing then why wouldn't we all be practicing Judaism in order to be Gods People?
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#75
We know God chose Paul as an apostle and breathed His words into Paul. We can believe all Paul wrote as coming from the Lord Himself. But we need to decide if that word was explaining scripture or adding to scripture.

Christ told us that what He did was not adding or taking away from scripture, but it was fulfilling scripture. If Paul taught something new, then Paul would be greater than Christ.

The Bereans tested Paul by whether he agreed with scripture or not. Acts 17:11 “Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”

Much of Paul’s writings were repeats of what the old testament said, he felt it explained what he said.

Did Paul add something new that God was adding to scripture?
Where most people make their mistake is they take Paul's "LETTERS to Churches" as THUS SAITH THE LORD, and even Paul himself never intended that to be the case, else we would not have gotten such confused situationS, like in 2 Thess. 2, where Paul says, REMEMBER WHER I WAS WITH YOU I TOLD YOU THESE THINGS?
What did Paul tell the Thessalonians? It would help if we knew, it would also help us understand what was DEPARTING, (which I understand anyway) because that is what Paul was referencing. Paul told them before they should fear being in the Day of the Lord or God's Wrath, but here they were fretting and fearing again in their letter unto Paul about being in God's Wrath, so Paul has to reassure them, you are not in God's Wrath, I urgently ask you (Beseech) as per the gathering unto Christ Jesus (Rapture) that you allow no man to place fear in you or to lie unto you, as per that you are in the Day of the Lord, because "THAT DAY" (God's Wrath) can not come until THE DEPARTING [of the Church]........... "REMEMBER YE NOT THAT WHICH I TOLD YOU REFERS TO THIS RIGHT HERE", the Church DEPARTS, thus Paul only says THE DEPARTING, but since he had already told them the Church was going to be Gathered unto Christ, he just says DEPARTING, and they know what he is referring unto, but many modern-day Christians seem confused, all because this was a MERE LETTER unto a Church that Paul never intended to be Scriptures, else he would have CLARIFIED he was talking about the Church Departing via the Rapture !!

Yesterday I had a guy online call me a liar because he quoted a passage by Paul in Romans 13:1-2 that he says means all Governments are ordained by God. I tell him that is not what it means per see. Paul was basically in a letter to the Romans telling them God ALLOWS these Governments, so in your case, if you try to rebel, these Romans will kill you and your families, in other words right now it's hopeless. But under the Americans Revolution was possible, and God-ordained that. God ordained David, but allowed Saul to be king for a time, God didn't want Israel to have a king, but He allowed it. I do think God placed Trump in office, I don't think it was God's will to have Biden in per se, but He allowed the theft of the election for His grand purposes. I don't think God ordained Hitler, Mao, and Lenin, but God allowed Satan to have his way, after all, he is the god of this world, he told Jesus he has authority over all the nations as given unto him.

So, is what Paul said scriptural? Yes, God ALLOWS IT, but no, God does not ordain these men as leaders, our wicked hearts chose wicked me who the scheme wicked schemes to have THEIR DESIRES come to pass in many cases, and it is not of God. So, that verse is taken out of context, all because Paul didn't expound on it, and probably couldn't outright say the Romans were thug dogs. lest they gain access to a letter he writes, kills him, and all the whole Church. Paul needed to get the Church off the ground, he didn't need the Romans trying to wipe out the Fledgling new Church.

So, while I think the letters are very insightful, God never told Paul "THUS SAITH THE Lord" and Paul never pretended in these letters that these were anything but guidance. There are too many gaps in his letters to get a full understanding in some cases. In Romans 13:1-2 Paul is basically telling them do not Rebel, God has allowed this Government, yet we have people who take this as God ORDAINS these evil Governments, and if you don't agree with that (Paul) you are a liar (LOL). If Paul wrote a letter to someone named Mary in the Church of let's say Pergamum, who was in despair because of her singing ability and Paul told her she had the voice of all voices, would she have been the greatest singer of all time, or was Paul merely comforting her screeching, out of tune big mouth, where she would not be in despair in longer, seeing as that is the most important thing, to comfort brothers and sisters !! Leading a Church, building it up, is not the same thing as what Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Isaiah did, they said "THUS SAITH THE LORD". Paul was building Churches and comforting people.

If a sign says NO SWIMMING and a kid is drowning, it's time to go swimming !! Jesus fudged on the Sabbath by healing, the Pharisees saw it as Blasphemy. Thus saith the Lord and MERCY are two different things.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#76
The Lord was taking away their power and authority. The Lord was not hiding this fact.

Go against Judaism right now with the Power and Authority of God and see how they feel about you as well...
Oh, ok.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#77
Christ didn't say He changed nothing. Christ knew He was changing everything.

What happened to the Levitical priesthood and sacrificing animals?

If the Lord changed nothing then why wouldn't we all be practicing Judaism in order to be Gods People?
Nothing has changed . . . ever. Abel, the very first Prophet was saved just like we are today, except that the Death of Christ would eventually pay for Abel's sin. However, Christ Circumcised his Heart, granted Abel the ability to repent and Turn to Him, and was also given the guiding Holy Spirit. Same Plan of salvation. Christ has been Purifying Hearts from the very beginning so that they would obey. It won't be until the Day of Pentecost that the Spirit would be freely given. But until then, the Spirit was given sparingly so that Israel could be guided and led by either their Holy Leader, Judge, or Righteous king.

Anyway, the Plan of Salvation is the same, which is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. We must possess his specific form of Faith . . . and that was well before the Death of Jesus.

Romans 4:9-14 NLT - "Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles? Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! 11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. 13 Clearly, God's promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God's law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. 14 If God's promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless."
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#78
Do you think this site is dedicated to an analysis of people or of scripture? Should we discuss me as a person or discuss interpretations of scripture. My hair is beyond grey but is white, does that interest you or are you interested in scripture? Scripture is all of our business, but my hair is none of your business.
Dunno. you kind of ask for it after all...discussing you that is ;)

the Bible says
Gray hair is a crown of glory;
it is gained in a righteous life. Proverbs 16:31

I do believe even white or silver probably meets that requirement

but you are free to reject that verse of course
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#79
If we go back from this backbiting, anti Christian blame, the posts not supporting each other, and address the issue, there are two sides. On the one hand there are people who think there has been great changes. And there has been. Basically, as is stated in Jerimiah 31, it is that the law written in stone is now written in our hearts, and the sacrificial system that was a shadow of Christ is now fulfilled. Paul is speaking of these things.

The OP is bringing out that Paul did not bring anything new to scripture, for these "new" additions are improvements and explanations of what is basically God. To fully understand Paul, that we need to keep the basic principles of God, ones that never change, in mind. That interpretation of scripture is opposed by many.

As an example---------Paul brought out that the law of Moses is no more. If the OP interprets this correctly, then the true law is the spirit of the law. If the interpretation is that Paul was authorized to add to scripture is correct, then God cancelled law through Paul. This brings up another important interpretation of scripture, would God authorize Paul to add to scripture, even though even Christ, we are told, was not authorized to add to scripture for Christ WAS the God who inspired scripture.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#80
I'm not interested in your personal agenda. If you can't support your assertions, they aren't worth discussing.
Good! Then your posts will now be about scripture and not about "Blik".