Did Paul give another reason to divorce? (1 Cor. 7:15)

[Believer08]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

 

[MsMediator]

What other reason are you referring to?

 

[Gideon300]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

If someone is married to an unbeliever, they should stay married unless the unbeliever chooses to terminate the relationship or commits adultery. Violence is never acceptable.
Unbiblical divorce is when there is no appropriate grounds. Some get bored, some say they should never have married, or some other worldly excuse. The power of Christ in the believer is enough to overcome any and all obstacles.
Divorce and remarriage is not the unpardonable sin. There will be consequences and they will be unpleasant, as King David discovered.
As an aside, many fellowships automatically blame the husband. In one way, this is correct. The husband is head of the household. However, he is also not responsible for his wife's actions. I know a number of men who were treated appallingly by their church. Some denominations entrench this discrimination in their church doctrine.

 

[Believer08]

What other reason are you referring to?

Some believe Paul gave abandonment as a reason.

 

[Believer08]

If someone is married to an unbeliever, they should stay married unless the unbeliever chooses to terminate the relationship or commits adultery. Violence is never acceptable.
Unbiblical divorce is when there is no appropriate grounds. Some get bored, some say they should never have married, or some other worldly excuse. The power of Christ in the believer is enough to overcome any and all obstacles.
Divorce and remarriage is not the unpardonable sin. There will be consequences and they will be unpleasant, as King David discovered.
As an aside, many fellowships automatically blame the husband. In one way, this is correct. The husband is head of the household. However, he is also not responsible for his wife's actions. I know a number of men who were treated appallingly by their church. Some denominations entrench this discrimination in their church doctrine.

I have never been married before, and the older I get the harder it is for me to find someone who is eligible for marriage on the count of their divorce not being biblical. I’d be afraid to marry someone who has been unbiblically divorce out of fear of committing adultery.

 

[Gideon300]

I have never been married before, and the older I get the harder it is for me to find someone who is eligible for marriage on the count of their divorce not being biblical. I’d be afraid to marry someone who has been unbiblically divorce out of fear of committing adultery.

If someone was divorced before they were saved, I believe that they can remarry without consequence. King David committed adultery and murder, yet was forgiven. The child of that relationship became David's heir. But David suffered terrible consequences as a result of his sin. So it's not an issue of forgiveness.

As an aside, the most spiritual man I ever knew (now passed away) was married 3 times. He was divorced before he was saved, his next wife committed adultery and his last wife was a gem. I was divorced nearly 30 years ago. I remarried 2-2/2 years ago. I could not be more blessed. I'm 73, my wife 71.

Finding a spouse is hard these days. People seem to have impossible expectations. Many are afraid to commit. I can understand that too. I got fed up with being single and God led me to my now wife. God can do the impossible.

I would recommend that you check out Mark Gungor. He has insight into relationships that few men have. He's very funny too.

 

[NOV25]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

And what about 1 Corinthians 7:27-28

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Are you married? Seek not to be loosed/lusis:divorce. Are you loosed/luo: “broken up”? Seek not a wife but if you do marry it is not a sin…

Did Paul just give marriage permission to those “separated” from their “wives”? Yup.

Before some pick up stones to throw at me lol… We have to remember who Paul is writing this letter to, ex pagan gentiles who weren’t law abiding in their “engagement”, “marriage” or “divorce”, using the terms loosely of course. Think Samaritan woman…
——

For those wondering, I’m a conservative permissive-the truly biblical divorce and remarriage view

 

[Believer08]

And what about 1 Corinthians 7:27-28

Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Are you married? Seek not to be loosed/lusis:divorce. Are you loosed/luo: “broken up”? Seek not a wife but if you do marry it is not a sin…

Did Paul just give marriage permission to those “separated” from their “wives”? Yup.

Before some pick up stones to throw at me lol… We have to remember who Paul is writing this letter to, ex pagan gentiles who weren’t law abiding in their “engagement”, “marriage” or “divorce”, using the terms loosely of course. Think Samaritan woman…
——

For those wondering, I’m a conservative permissive-the truly biblical divorce and remarriage view

Ok, so how would you reconcile those with what Jesus said?

 

[GWH]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

TOJ #26: You should not divorce. [MT 5:31-32a//MK 10:11//LK 16:18a] Jesus said that the only permissible reason for legal divorce is marital unfaithfulness or when the sin of spiritual divorce signified by adultery has already occurred. {MT 19:6-9//MK 10:6-9} See TOJ #104 on the meaning of marriage. The divine viewpoint, which all humans need to acquire, is that sexual intimacy should mean marriage, that divorce is a spiritual disaster before it leads to a legal dissolution, and that neither divorce nor a miserable marriage are moral options. This leaves only celibacy or a happy marriage as permissible alternatives.

TOJ #27: Do not remarry except for godly reasons. [MT 5:32b//MK 10:12//LK 16:18b] Jesus probably prohibits remarriage in hope that reconciliation will occur, but understanding this statement as a blanket command that admits no exceptions is very problematic, because it would contradict other biblical teachings. Discerning whether spiritual remarriage is psychologically possible and legal remarriage morally permissible requires harmonizing several biblical passages:

1. Divorce and even adultery are not unforgivable (MT 12:31-32),
2. Not everyone has the gift of celibacy, the ability to live happily very long without a sexual partner (MT 19:11-12, 1CR 7:9).
3. We know that God desires reconciliation (1CR 7:10-11, 2CR 5:18-19),
4. Paul indicated (in 1CR 7:15) that it is permissible for a Christian divorcee (unjustly so) to remarry if an unbelieving spouse was the divorcer (and, presumably, if reconciliation attempts have failed, because the “ex” has remarried or committed adultery/fornication).
5. We also know that many sins including divorce are committed before a person believes the gospel and becomes a mature Believer by LGW and the TOJ. When people repent of Sin and confess their sins, then God forgives them (1JN 1:9) and views them as sharing the perfection of Christ (PHP 3:9).

Thus, a reasonable conclusion is that this TOJ is not meant to be a blanket prohibition, but rather that a truly repentant divorcer (and even adulterer) whose former spouse has remarried may also remarry after some period (probably at least a year is reasonable) of counseling, celibacy and spiritual maturation, so that a successful (lifelong and happy) second marriage seems very likely. We must assume God gives the gift of celibacy to such a person long enough to accomplish this goal, because He does not let people be tempted beyond what they can resist (1CR 10:13). However, if a second try is barely permissible, then serial “marriages” border on legalized lust, which is an abomination that mocks this sacred union. The serial sinner would do well to obey TOJ #24 & #26 or pray for the gift of permanent celibacy.

 

[homwardbound]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

Maybe, ask God and see it Spiritually from God, God never meant anyone to divorce, yet even God did that to Israel, Divorced them, then took them back in

Kind of like in Corinthians, tha man that wanted and had sex with his step mother, at least wanted Paul went against them in the letter to not support than person. Kick him out divorce him. For him to get buffeted by Satan and see his one mistake, and repent*Change his mind and see to not harm others, since God chose not to harm us all through Son for us all.

Then, I see in 2 Cor 7, Paul elated over they got the message and are seeing new and not taking for granted this forgiveness given them
Read it, He heard they got it and did at first regretted getting down on them over that situation, then said bring that person back in, remarry

I see from this to believe God is to marry God, you two become one and not haughty over it at all, no more pride enters or guilt either. We in a life long, here on earth learning lesson(s) to me at least
I look back and see many things gone, and then I hear from the enemies of God trying to put thought(s) in my mind, hey look at you, you got it together don't you? As soon as I accept any swelling words, Pride has put a crack on my unredeemed flesh door, that to me is dead to pride and guilt
Conscience by God is purged from guilt of sin
I know those passages are considered fro physical marriage, not to me anymore thanks

 

[Aaron56]

So, just for clarification, if a man and a woman marry, even in a church building, does that mean that "God put them together"?

 

[GWH]

So, just for clarification, if a man and a woman marry, even in a church building, does that mean that "God put them together"?

It SHOULD mean that.
Otherwise satan appearing as an angel of light might apply.

 

[NOV25]

Ok, so how would you reconcile those with what Jesus said?

Great question. In short, Jesus wasn’t giving new doctrine on divorce and remarriage in the gospels. I say new because, we have the provision and guideline for divorce and remarriage after the fall in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 (aka the Deuteronomic permission) I say Jesus because, Jesus wrote it lol

——

In 1 Corinthians 7:12 Paul states, but to the rest speak I, not the Lord… In other words, Jesus never addressed the following during his earthly ministry or in his OT word-this is a new word. We really need to let that sink in.

If a person’s conclusion of Matthew 5&19, Mark 10 and Luke 16 is something like: everyone who divorces and remarries is guilty of adultery, then Paul is either a double liar for claiming Jesus never addressed these issues-then giving the abandonment clause or they don’t understand what Jesus was saying in the gospels. I lean towards the latter lol

Most folks start with a twisted doctrine derived from misunderstanding Jesus’ words in the gospels, then scramble the rest-from Deuteronomy through Corinthians. I know from experience lol

 

[homwardbound]

So, just for clarification, if a man and a woman marry, even in a church building, does that mean that "God put them together"?

Not necessarily to me anyways
I had gotten divorced twice before God revealed my wife to me that I have been married to for over 40 years now
Mysterious ways of God are definably mysterious to me
God is love to all, not all see this truth and see to be married to God over it all. As Paul talks about, marriage the mysterious ways of God
The two become one, as said about man and woman marrying. Paul was talking about us being married to God through risen Son for is to be done with self works and thankful as reconciled now marry God Father through done work of Son as risen where new life is given, to learn new and be new in love and mercy to all too, thanks, just what I see presently

 

[NOV25]

The ESV debacle.
Luke 16:17-18

[17] But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
[18] “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

This is scary

Jesus states not one dot will be voided, then he voids Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in the next breath?

Their response: Moses gave the permission in Deuteronomy, not Jesus.

To which we ask: who wrote Deuteronomy, Jesus or Moses? Are we to believe that Jesus is voiding the Deuteronomic permission because Moses wrote it against the will of God but somehow it found it’s way into inspired cannon? lol

——

Sadly, the ESV totally botched this doctrine and as you continue to look deeper it becomes almost impossible to believe it was an honest mistake.

For instance, they changed the second half of 1 Corinthians 7 by claiming Paul is speaking to the betrothed rather than virgins, causing them to remove an entire portion where he addresses Christian parents on whether or not they should give their children in marriage. Why? Because if Paul was talking to the lusis: “divorced” and the luo: “broken up” in 1 Corinthians 7:28a, they’ve created a contradiction to the gospels.

There were many flashing do not enter signs for the ESV crew in the 90’s, warnings to turn back and reevaluate whether or not they had it right in the gospels. Sadly they did not heed these warnings.

The ESV and nearly every other new translation who followed suit are a large part of the problem, feeding wildly contradicting divorce and remarriage doctrines and causing much harm (mental and even physical) to the body and their testimonies to the gospel of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1. If he did, would that not be contradicting what Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9?

2. What about when someone says that the bound Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 7:15 is not referring to marriage due to him using a different Greek word for it than he did with it in Romans 7:2?

3. What would be considered a biblical and unbiblical divorce?

4. Who has the right to remarry?

5. How would this view harmonize with 1 Cor. 7:10-12 and Rom. 7:2?

Paul is specifically talking about believers within the church . So the element of “ what if my unbelieving wife leaves me and doesn’t want to be married to me anymore ? Am I still bound to marriage in this case ? Jesus never addressed that part regarding e individuals belief

remember paup and the apostles were t creating new doctrine but they were firther explaining the gospel Jesus had began preaching

The apostles role was here

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-15‬ ‭

Jesus preached the principles the apostles then revealed the details and exceptions for instance the exception tbat if two people are married and one is an unbeliever if the unbeliever leaves the believer then the believer is nOt bound to the marriage but if the unbeliever doesn’t leave and us willing to stay the marriage bond remains

the idea is that the believer needs to walk in the right spirit but the unbelievers bad actions can’t defile the believers right actions

 

[Aaron56]

It SHOULD mean that.
Otherwise satan appearing as an angel of light might apply.

"Churches" or buildings called "churches" open themselves to the world. They justify this by calling it "evangelism".

It would seem, when the world is mixed with the Kingdom of God, then you no longer have the Kingdom of God. Kind like soup mixed with sewage is no longer soup.

"Churches" do a lot of things that God does not recognize. Certainly, two adults may be married in a church building legally, according to the world. But, because the church has no jurisdiction over the rule of the land, the ceremony in the building is often just pomp.

Wisdom is required to know the difference between a marriage God recognizes and one He does not.

P.S. This in no way releases anyone of responsibility from their obligations to their spouse.

 

[Believer08]

Here is my view…I’ll just say it’s best to marry someone who is biblical eligible.. stay married. Work through the problems and issues that all marriages have. Put God in the center of it. Grow in Christ together. Husbands ought to love their wives as Christ loved the church that He gave Himself for it (Eph. 5:25). Love your wife as your own body (28). If one does divorce and it’s not for the reason the Lord gave (Mt. 19:9), then for the sake of one’s soul, don’t go looking for another mate. It’s best to remain single than to be in a marriage that is not lawful with someone who doesn’t belong to you (Mk. 6:18).

 

[GWH]

"Churches" or buildings called "churches" open themselves to the world. They justify this by calling it "evangelism".

It would seem, when the world is mixed with the Kingdom of God, then you no longer have the Kingdom of God. Kind like soup mixed with sewage is no longer soup.

"Churches" do a lot of things that God does not recognize. Certainly, two adults may be married in a church building legally, according to the world. But, because the church has no jurisdiction over the rule of the land, the ceremony in the building is often just pomp.

Wisdom is required to know the difference between a marriage God recognizes and one He does not.

P.S. This in no way releases anyone of responsibility from their obligations to their spouse.

I do not remember a biblical reference to a house church outgrowing the house and building a building comparable to a synagogue,
but it must have happened if their evangelism was very successful. (The 3,000 converts in ACTS 2:41 must have met in the open air on a hillside :^)

The mixing of the KOG with the world is the subject of some of Jesus' parables, such as the one about the wheat and weeds,
in which the separating is done at the Judgment.

There is no biblical requirement for a marriage ceremony, but only that the man and woman leave their parents and become spiritually one, which is expressed by becoming physically united. Of course, a church wedding might be good in order not to offend weaker brethren. (1CR 8:9)

It is true that wisdom in this regard is having the proper understanding of marriage as a spiritual union rather than a legal agreement, and vows should be kept.

 

[homwardbound]

The ESV debacle.
Luke 16:17-18

[17] But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
[18] “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

This is scary

Jesus states not one dot will be voided, then he voids Deuteronomy 24:1-4 in the next breath?

Their response: Moses gave the permission in Deuteronomy, not Jesus.

To which we ask: who wrote Deuteronomy, Jesus or Moses? Are we to believe that Jesus is voiding the Deuteronomic permission because Moses wrote it against the will of God but somehow it found it’s way into inspired cannon? lol

——

Sadly, the ESV totally botched this doctrine and as you continue to look deeper it becomes almost impossible to believe it was an honest mistake.

For instance, they changed the second half of 1 Corinthians 7 by claiming Paul is speaking to the betrothed rather than virgins, causing them to remove an entire portion where he addresses Christian parents on whether or not they should give their children in marriage. Why? Because if Paul was talking to the lusis: “divorced” and the luo: “broken up” in 1 Corinthians 7:28a, they’ve created a contradiction to the gospels.

There were many flashing do not enter signs for the ESV crew in the 90’s, warnings to turn back and reevaluate whether or not they had it right in the gospels. Sadly they did not heed these warnings.

The ESV and nearly every other new translation who followed suit are a large part of the problem, feeding wildly contradicting divorce and remarriage doctrines and causing much harm (mental and even physical) to the body and their testimonies to the gospel of Christ.

The Law today is only for the unbelievers. The believers in the risen son freed from under Law to uphold Law as good for them and obey Law willingly through the perfect willing Son for them
since, whoever, anyone believes God in risen Son for them, one begins to be new and starts to grow in faith to maturity to eating the meat of the word love and mercy given them to all ,sin gone from Father’s view for you that once see it, it works through, you taking no more credit
Pride and guilt gone. Purged from the consciousness of sin forever in risen Son given thanks