Different Gospels

[Musicmaster]

When I read this OP, the following came to my mind, as expressed by Robert L. Dabney in his Systematic Theology -

“The distribution of Theology into didactic, polemic, and practical, is sufficiently known. Now, all didactic inculcation of truth is indirect refutation of the opposite error. Polemic Theology has been defined as direct refutation of error. The advantage of this has been supposed to be, that the way for easiest and most thorough refutation is to systematize the error, with reference to its first principle, or prwton yeudo". But the attempt to form a science of polemics, different from Didactic Theology fails; because error never has true method. Confusion is its characteristic. The system of discussion, formed on its false method, cannot be scientific. Hence, separate treatises on polemics have usually slidden into the methods of didactics; or they have been confused. Again: Indirect refutation is more effectual than direct. There is therefore, in this course, no separate polemic; but what is said against errors is divided between the historical and didactic.”

The OP is nothing but a confusion! When I see arguments in presentations that take all the verbiage as in this presentation, I know it is probably teaching profound error. I’ve found in attempting to answer such confusion, one becomes confused himself trying to give a response.

I saw at the beginning of this OP, seemingly an attempt to say only Old Covenant(?) Jews were given the power of miracles in Mark 16. Well, the list given to the twelve in Matthew includes one special power:

These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. As you go, proclaim the good news, ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. You received without payment; give without payment. (Matt 10:5-8, NRSV)

If I see anyone claiming the gifts as Pentecostals and Charismatics do, I want to see them raise the dead! Then I will listen to their claims, not until they do so.

You make some good points along with the quote. I didn't want to go to the point of raising the dead because that forces them to go to the "cessationist" defense, which I didn't want to force them into prematurely so that at least some discussion could be had as to the other elements of miracles that themselves still are not being operable on the basis of the Kingdom Gospel. Granted, the others are easier to contrive, and are indeed contrived on a routine basis within various of the Charismatic circles, just like magician slight-of-hand tricks I've seen with my own eyes.

Thanks for your post.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore:
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

I never said otherwise.

Therefore, you can only have heartfelt consciousness of sin if law is in your heart

Be better if you believe what Paul wrote, it is one of the core tenets of scripture.

...OR the WORK of the Law, the meaning of which seems to have escaped your awareness. Pop Christianity cultivates that ignorance as a matter of routine, which is the work of the enemy of our souls.

The WORK of the Law is the higher level of understanding through which the living of the Law is manifest rather than mere intellectual knowledge and memory of the Law. Memorized elements are nowhere near as impacting as that which is the WORK of the things written actively WORKING out through the life of the people.

See the difference?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Rom ch7 concerns the ten commandments specifically from verse 7 onwards. In the middle his points concerning this, Paul states:
Wherefore the law is holy, just and good verse12
Jesus did not die to abolish what is holy, just and good. He died to end man's condemnation under what is holy, just and good.
The law comes in two parts, what is written in it and the penaltyt for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, it is the second part that's the problem
All believers know in their minds God does not want them to steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain covet:
I will write my laws in their minds:
And believers would say, in their hearts they do not want to do those things:
And place them(my laws) in their hearts
Then he adds: Their sins and lawless deeds I will rememeber no more
Best not to ignore texts

 

[Thaddeus]

I never said otherwise.



...OR the WORK of the Law, the meaning of which seems to have escaped your awareness. Pop Christianity cultivates that ignorance as a matter of routine, which is the work of the enemy of our souls.

The WORK of the Law is the higher level of understanding through which the living of the Law is manifest rather than mere intellectual knowledge and memory of the Law. Memorized elements are nowhere near as impacting as that which is the WORK of the things written actively WORKING out through the life of the people.

See the difference?

MM

Works of the law is obeying the law
Through the law itself, as Paul states we become conscious of sin
All believers are conscious of sin

 

[Musicmaster]

Rom ch7 concerns the ten commandments specifically from verse 7 onwards. In the middle his points concerning this, Paul states:
Wherefore the law is holy, just and good verse12

I never said otherwise.

Jesus did not die to abolish what is holy, just and good. He died to end man's condemnation under what is holy, just and good.

Agreed. The Law is also still in force today.

The law comes in two parts, what is written in it and the penaltyt for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it is holy, just and good, it is the second part that's the problem

There's more to it than those two things, but do go on...

All believers know in their minds God does not want them to steal, lie, commit adultery, murder, take His name in vain covet:

Those are the WORK of the Law, not just some memory work done prior of the mere words.

I will write my laws in their minds:

Yes, in the minds of those of Israel. The body of Christ will not be on this earth any longer "after those days," as it is written.

And believers would say, in their hearts they do not want to do those things:

Yes, because of the WORK of the Law.

And place them(my laws) in their hearts

Yes, that of Israel, as it is written.

Then he adds: Their sins and lawless deeds I will rememeber no more
Best not to ignore texts

Please take your own advice.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

I never said otherwise.



Agreed. The Law is also still in force today.



There's more to it than those two things, but do go on...



Those are the WORK of the Law, not just some memory work done prior of the mere words.



Yes, in the minds of those of Israel. The body of Christ will not be on this earth any longer "after those days," as it is written.



Yes, because of the WORK of the Law.



Yes, that of Israel, as it is written.



Please take your own advice.

MM

Once again works of the law is obeying the law
Paul did not say we are conscious of sin through works of the law
Rather:
Through the law we become conscious of sin
You are so far from understanding Paul

 

[Thaddeus]

A philosophical attitude and ''intellectualism''; will not bring anyone to understand a spiritual message

 

[Thaddeus]

Yes, because of the WORK of the Law.

So believers seek to obey the law they are not part of?

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:20

 

[Thaddeus]

You can only be conscious of sin through the law, as all ''should'' know

 

[Thaddeus]

Twenty years ago, I believed the law/what was written in it was all abolished for believers(including gentiles). I allowed myself to be corrected. I believe I was prompted to

 

[Anchorite]

Indeed? Then is your local hospital still full of infirmed people? Why aren't you out there exercising that healing power? Please share with us all what you're doing about all the suffering in your neck of the woods, if you don't mind.

Meanwhile, the hospitals remain filled, the people still die from the cancers in those places, and nothing really has manifested to evidence any real miracles at all.

Quote me a verse that says Jesus or His disciples went to all the leper colonies and healed them all.

People do recover from cancers. Ever heard of the word remission?

Just because you have not seen a miracle does not mean they do not happen.

If you really cared about the sick, you would pray for them, instead of arguing about how no healing is available.

You are glorifying the works of the devil and negating the works of the Lord.

 

[Musicmaster]

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness(not full stop) for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31

Nobody said anything about the Law being void. I even stated that the Law is still in force to this day.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Quote me a verse that says Jesus or His disciples went to all the leper colonies and healed them all.

Are you saying that you don't go out and heal people because of what Jesus didn't do? Is that your defense?

People do recover from cancers. Ever heard of the word remission?

Yes, the body has a measure of self-healing already, but that doesn't explain why you don't go out and do what you say that you can do.

Just because you have not seen a miracle does not mean they do not happen.

I never said that. Why appeal to straw man argument in things I never said?

If you really cared about the sick, you would pray for them, instead of arguing about how no healing is available.

I do pray for them, and am still wondering why you don't go out and do what you claim you can do.

You are glorifying the works of the devil and negating the works of the Lord.

Prove it.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Twenty years ago, I believed the law/what was written in it was all abolished for believers(including gentiles). I allowed myself to be corrected. I believe I was prompted to

Good to hear. The Law is holy and righteous, and by it we know what sin is, but far better is the WORK of the Law...the WORK written in our hearts...the WORK of what? The Law. The WORK is the object, not the letter of the Law that's important.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

So believers seek to obey the law they are not part of?

That's a non-argument because it's based on nothing that I said.

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:20

Yes, he does.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Good to hear. The Law is holy and righteous, and by it we know what sin is, but far better is the WORK of the Law...the WORK written in our hearts...the WORK of what? The Law. The WORK is the object, not the letter of the Law that's important.

MM

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Cor3:3
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:13
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
All christians have heartfelt consciousness of sin

But you carry on!

 

[Thaddeus]

Nobody said anything about the Law being void. I even stated that the Law is still in force to this day.

MM

Sigh
What is written in what we may term the moral law is not void for gentile believers.
The penalty for transgression is.
You may think it would be scandalous for God to place in a believers mind he does not want them to steal, lie, commit adultery, take his name in vain, murder, covet
And you may also think it scandalous for God to place the desire in peoples hearts not to do those things, but you would be in a minority.
Nothing wrong with that at all, because, what is in your heart and mind cannot condemn you, for you have a saviour from sin

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas 1Cor3:22

Why would Paul tell gentiles, under a different gospel to Peter, that he is theirs?

Yeah and some were followers of different teachers and being carnal minded in doing do (1 Corinthians 3:4-6)

It's ONE Gospel - the Doctrine of Christ. There may be different ways of approaching people to teach the gospel to them but that does not mean there is more than one gospel. The devil always tried to muddy the waters on this and those tossed about every wind of doctrine are easily taken in by his chicanery

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

The devil always tried to muddy the waters on this and those tossed about every wind of doctrine are easily taken in by his chicanery

How then should we understand The Following...

Two Distinct And Different Gospels!
+
I have decided to follow Jesus?
+
Agreement With The Gospel?

...If we Do Not "...study to show thyself APPROVED Unto God..."?

Amen.



Better it is to Be "Approved Unto God" rather than "falling for chicanery", eh?

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

How then should we understand The Following...

The thing to do is go by what God said in His Word, otherwise you will remain deceived

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

I have decided to Follow ( The earthly ) Jesus?

I see you got two "Jesus'" running around over there